After my drunken post (See "What are you"), I went out with some friends to walk it off. Now the same girl who asked me that question got to to talking with me about trans issues in general. During this she brought up a good point. The reason Gays and Lesbians are much more accepted now is that they, overall, are more visible. Now that doesn't mean that trans people are completely invisible. But for the most part we are only visible in our transition. After this period we try and live in 'stealth'.

But it could be that us living in stealth is actually one of the reasons we are not getting as far as fast with legal rights and society respect. She said that it might actually be detrimental to our cause to be living in stealth. She said that this does not mean to go around proclaiming it, but to be more open about it.

Personally I have mixed feelings about this. I did strive to be invisible in plain sight, and I think I have succeeded. I do want to come out to my students one day and be there for LGBT youth who might need a sympathetic ear. But I want to do that 'later', and for now and immediate future just enjoy being able to be a normal girl. I'm not sure being open about my trans status would do anything useful at this point, but her idea did sound like it had something to it.

So what do you girls/guys think of this? 

Some of us transition to live "normal" lives as women (or men in the case of FTM's).  I personally find it very offensive when some members of the TS community think or imply that every TS person should proclaim their transsexuality in order to fight for equal rights.

No one who has gone through the pain and misery of transition should feel that they owe *things* to anyone.  Most of us have lost jobs, our family, our spouses, our children, our friends, and many more things in order to achieve a sense of balance in our lives.  At the same time, some of us have built a completely new life after transition; we have careers, new friends, perhaps a spouse.. a totally new world/life in other words, and I'm sorry but it is very unfair to suggest to give all that up or jeorpardize it for a cause (whatever this cause may be).

Also let's keep in mind that in order to be an activist for TS rights, one doesn't need to expose oneself to the world and advertise one's transsexuality.  The bottom line, however, is this:  Being "stealth" or "out and proud" is (or should be) an entirely personal decision without any expectations or obligations.

tink

There are many reasons for being stealth, my own personal one is to make sure that I am able to provide for my family.  I have nine years experience in a field that is predominately male, so to just outright declare myself transgendered one day pretty much puts the death knell on my job.  If I were single it wouldnt be so bad, but providing for a spouse and child comes first for me.  Eventually one day I wont be stealth, but the timing for me hasnt revealed itself.  Good question though!

I think that I've been very fortunate in my own particular case.  I guess you might say that I'm invisible in plain sight.  Personally I do not proclaim my TS past to anyone and I try and live as stealthy a life as I can, however I am still very active in my community, so it can be done.  One thing that I have going for me is that I came out at work and supported 100%, even the school board and schools who I deal with on a daily basis support me.

But we need to remember that by simply being a member of Susan's is going a long way in fighting for our rights.  As new members join asking questions and getting advice and answers, they in turn become armed with the knowledge that helped us gain what we have.  For example passing on to others how to come out to their employer serves to encourage them to do it and as more and more come out, more and more companies are going to be forced to deal with the issue, and as more and more companies are forced to deal with the issue the more exposure we get.

Just my thoughts.

Steph

I admire those who go public.  I really do.  Generally, they do a great job in representing the rest of us.  I can only give them praise even if they do not project my unique perspective.

I live in stealth except for on this board.  I even used the pen name "Cindi Jones" to write my book.

Does it hurt us to live in stealth?  No.  Fortunately, we get more publicity than gay people do anyway.  We seem to threaten every thread of our society for some reason, so our plight is much more "news worthy".

What we need to do is do the best we can to live happy fulfilling lives. I am thrilled that there are several members here who are in a similar position as me.  Even though I've led my life as a female for over twenty years, it's still nice to talk to someone about issues that no one else in my life can ever hope to understand.

I also like to help other people as well.  So if I can do that from the comfort of my home over the internet, all I have vested is a little of my time.  I can honestly say that members of this site have been a great help to me over the past year.

Cindi

Quote from: Tink on January 24, 2008, 10:16:00 PM
Some of us transition to live "normal" lives as women (or men in the case of FTM's).  I personally find it very offensive when some members of the TS community think or imply that every TS person should proclaim their transsexuality in order to fight for equal rights.

No one who has gone through the pain and misery of transition should feel that they owe *things* to anyone.  Most of us have lost jobs, our family, our spouses, our children, our friends, and many more things in order to achieve a sense of balance in our lives.  At the same time, some of us have built a completely new life after transition; we have careers, new friends, perhaps a spouse.. a totally new world/life in other words, and I'm sorry but it is very unfair to suggest to give all that up or jeorpardize it for a cause (whatever this cause may be).

Also let's keep in mind that in order to be an activist for TS rights, one doesn't need to expose oneself to the world and advertise one's transsexuality.  The bottom line, however, is this:  Being "stealth" or "out and proud" is (or should be) an entirely personal decision without any expectations or obligations.

tink

There's a middle road between stealth and out-and-loud.  I've built a new career and a new life but I'm not concerned about anyone finding out.  I consider myself an activist but not in an in-your-face way.  I volunteer for an employment program that helps TG people find jobs.  I'm on a committee that's formulating health care policy for TGs with a major healthcare provider.  It doesn't have to be an either or thing.  I'm stealth in some circumstances but out and proud in others.

I think it can hurt some to be in stealth. And I mean above that as a community, but on a personal level.

If you are stealth, what do you do when questions about x period in life pre-transition come up? Make something up? Switch topic? I'd rather be vague enough, and if someone's clever enough to 'guess', then I don't mind being open about it. I guess it depends where and with whom. I don't shout it for certain, and I pass...so I only say it to certain people, mainly friends, when it seems appropriate and safe.

I would always tell a significant other, at least pre-op, and probably post-op, too. But that's my personal choice (post-op anyway). If someone is asexual (and still has a partner, ie not being aromantic too), they can probably withhold the information too, if they want, since it has much less impact if at all.

Quote from: Claire de Lune on January 24, 2008, 10:57:16 PM

There's a middle road between stealth and out-and-loud.  I've built a new career and a new life but I'm not concerned about anyone finding out.  I consider myself an activist but not in an in-your-face way.  I volunteer for an employment program that helps TG people find jobs.  I'm on a committee that's formulating health care policy for TGs with a major healthcare provider.  It doesn't have to be an either or thing.  I'm stealth in some circumstances but out and proud in others.

And that is your choice so kuddos to you!

tink

Quote from: redfish on January 24, 2008, 11:25:51 PM
The power is YOOOURS

Not sure what is worse, the quote or the fact I understood it.

If I came out and were to be my overly flamboyant self, people would be absolutley shocked, probably angered, and I'm not ready to deal with it. I need the subtle changes that stealth provides. It sounds strange but it's true.

Re: Does it hurt us to be in stealth?

No! for me it's the norm...

Quote from: Tink on January 24, 2008, 10:16:00 PM
Some of us transition to live "normal" lives as women (or men in the case of FTM's).  I personally find it very offensive when some members of the TS community think or imply that every TS person should proclaim their transsexuality in order to fight for equal rights.

No one who has gone through the pain and misery of transition should feel that they owe *things* to anyone.  Most of us have lost jobs, our family, our spouses, our children, our friends, and many more things in order to achieve a sense of balance in our lives.  At the same time, some of us have built a completely new life after transition; we have careers, new friends, perhaps a spouse.. a totally new world/life in other words, and I'm sorry but it is very unfair to suggest to give all that up or jeorpardize it for a cause (whatever this cause may be).

Also let's keep in mind that in order to be an activist for TS rights, one doesn't need to expose oneself to the world and advertise one's transsexuality.  The bottom line, however, is this:  Being "stealth" or "out and proud" is (or should be) an entirely personal decision without any expectations or obligations.

tink

i concord

Quote from: Steph on January 24, 2008, 10:48:11 PM

But we need to remember that by simply being a member of Susan's is going a long way in fighting for our rights.  As new members join asking questions and getting advice and answers, they in turn become armed with the knowledge that helped us gain what we have.  

Steph

exactly so

When I die, I want to be remembered for what I have achieved as a woman, not as a transsexual.

Stealth is a choice, not everyone wants it,  not everyone can even achieve it, but I for one respect people who live successful and happy lives as women (in stealth) or openly declare their past or actively campaign for TS rights.

In my opion both are important for societies acceptance of Transsexualism.

Rebecca

Quote from: BCL on January 25, 2008, 07:45:33 AM
When I die, I want to be remembered for what I have achieved as a woman, not as a transsexual.

Rebecca

right on rebecca

The issue of stealth, to me, is the catch-22. It's not about being identified or recognized as being transwoman, that's your past, it's about being a woman, and while it's the argument why it's important to be stealth, it's also the argrument we haven't progressed in the medical community, the media, the law, and the world in general as women.

I would argue if all the stealth (trans)women became public, it would show the entire breadth of the community as people just like everyone else. It would give the case to redefine it in the DSM and WPATH so more could transistion with health insurance coverage. It would almost become a yawner, "Oh, another one, ok, and?" to the world.

My argument is that the sheer numbers would show the world, especially the medical community, we're not abnormal and worth curing or treating for a dysphoria, but simply someone who needs medically supervised care to transistion under our decisions and direction with full responsibility for our decisions and actions without "approval" to be something we're mislabelled.

But the problem is the short-term where it would take time to show we are also different from the other groups under the transgender umbrella. This may be something the other groups don't like, but it could provide the avenue for pre-op transpeople to control their own life. There still needs to be protections under the Hate Crime law and ENDA similar to LGB's currently have, which normalizes us with them - do I hear an "Awwww..."?

The other side is that coming out makes your past there in view of everyone. But maybe that's a good thing as it removes the fear of the discovery of it by many stealth transpeople and it allows us to use it as our lives, not hidden in our mind. We become whole people, as shown when public transpeople show they're whole normal life. Sorta' like someone doing a background check, "I asking about Ms. Jane Smith, formerly Mr John Smith,..."

All this said, I think the many stealth - agreeing with the reasons in the past to do so - have hurt the community and its progress. But I also understand and agree it's fair to allow a transperson to make that decision. But today, your past isn't all that hidden anymore, so being outed isn't if but when, whether it's for a background check, a medical exam or something else, you will be outed some day in your life.

I guess I would ask, since it could be estimated that there are tens of thousands living stealth lives, what would happen if most, preferablly nearly all, came out? wouldn't it surprise the hell out of all the critics, "Holy sh.., I didn't realize there were so many as normal women." Wouldn't that be good?

Look at the many now public (trans)women and mulitply that by 8-10 times. Logic says it would be the best decision for all us. Human nature says it wouldn't for each of us. And that's the catch-22 we all individually and collective face. We can either continue down the road fighting for something we know is true but can't prove due to all the stealth women, or all of us step into the light and show we're just one of everyone.

--Susan--

You're right Susan, a real catch-22.

I agree with the concept of stealth because I am a woman, I don't have to try all that hard to pass despite my physical shortcomings because i'm not pretending to be what i'm not. I am being myself.

That being said, if all the transexuals of this country came out publically, it might make our lives, as a whole, far easier. Or even the world over.

But the problem is that not many will want to take this risk. I for one would hesitate because of all the girls who knew me as a girl and had me in the woman's restroom. Or the guys that had hit on me. For me to come out might have legal and social consequences that could shatter the life i'm just starting to get under control and be happy about. This is just me living as a woman for two weeks, what about those of us living as a guy or girl for months or years? it could potentially be worse.

If we did this, it will hurt alot of people. It will almost be a promise that the situation would get bad before it got better. That's my take on it at least.

You are never stealth from those who knew you in the past.  I certainly don't go out of my way to yell it on the streets "Hey, I'm a transitioned woman", but I don't refuse to answer any questions if they are asked.

They just had a mini reunion of my high school class of '62 (from a midwest town, but held in California), I had three different people from my class ask me to come even though they knew all about me from my profile on the school website.  It didn't worry them.

Mostly I just "live" my life.  I'm sorry if that doesn't help advance the cause in the news, I can't help it, this is who I am.

Sarah L.

Susan,
I don't think that even if all of us rose up it would change anything,
except hurt us. Once someone knows your TS and not a women,
they treat you differently, most can't help it. Being treated as
an other by most, instead of a women, would crush most TS and
would seem to nullify their transition.

Politicians know exactly how many of us there are. Too few to bother...

TS are at most a fraction of percentage of the US electorat.

I don't consider myself in "stealth". I live my life the way I thought it should have been lived and yes, people know that I changed genders, but they are OK with it. They treat me like the lady I want to be treated like. I have had people make mistakes about my gender and call me he or some masculine pronoun and they appologize to me in the next sentence. I have people talking to me about trans issues and the next day ask me if I had my children the natural way or by C-section then they think a while and say I'm sorry. I don't carry a sign around my neck telling everyone I'm TS, but I will not deny my past. I still go into a conversation with men and talk about my past and what I did as a male. I'm just not ashamed of who I am. If you want to hide in the closet that is your own business, but I prefer to be out of the closet and free from all those who might come up and say, I know your secret and fear them. Like I said before, I live my life as the lady I have always wanted to be and no one ever bothers me and if they don't know well that is all right and if they do know that is all right, too. Just have fun with life, don't sweat the small stuff. It is hard enough to make ends meet and to have this hanging over your head all the time, its crazy.
Sheila

I personally have to be in stealth mode for 3 more years because of my occupation and my desire to retire since I am so close.  Even after I retire for this job and move on with a real life I am not sure how open I will be about who I am ....or was.  If somebody ask, I would tell them if I felt I could trust them.  I basically am the same person now I will be then with the exception of the changes from transition, however I also plan to move as soon as I retire and start a new life somewhere else where nobody knows me.  So I guess in a way I will always be in stealth because I don't feel its worth mentioning if I don't have to because I have already lost enough friends because they could not handle the truth.  My parents have both passed and my sister is alright with it.  Rest of my family I talk to maybe twice a year so not like they are really in my life.