The last few years have been full of trans related issues and politics in the media.
Is this visibility making your life easier?

For me, it was at least simplier to explain other people what's going on... they realized fast "I'm not the only one"... but I'm still scared that people will now have opions which they just copied from the media, without thinking about it by themself...

In all but one case easier or at least no harder.

One person I told gave me the "oh you on that band wagon now" attitude.  He didn't say it, but that's the vibe I got.  But in general it makes the conversation a heck of a lot easier.

For the others it takes a few minutes (typically 10-15) before they really start to "get it" and bring up Caitlyn Jenner.  That's when the conversation takes a right turn and the conversation becomes how her transition and mine is/will-be different.  So I guess in general it makes it easier for people to understand some of what's going on.

It also helps when I explain that I've been hiding this for 50 years and not some "flash in the pan" reaction.

Quote from: Denise on October 31, 2016, 08:59:55 AM
In all but one case easier or at least no harder.

One person I told gave me the "oh you on that band wagon now" attitude.  He didn't say it, but that's the vibe I got.

I get this vibe too, and they always need to tell me the real reason I'm trans. I liked it better when I was just a freak.



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One thing I'm not appreciating is the conflation of medical transsexuality with people who just want to play around with genderbending and not transition - who don't have a serious medical issue, basically, and people attempting to force their use of pronouns (via trying to make it illegal not to) on others. I do not think these developments will make our lives easier in the long run, and I think if this keeps happening there will be a pushback against trans people. We do not want to be seen as intimidating and authoritarian or confusing/confused... that will not help our cause of being left alone to pursue our lives in peace.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on October 31, 2016, 09:53:39 PM
... people who just want to play around with genderbending and not transition...

I think this is a bit touchy, as living in the non-binary wasn't always as viable as it is now.  I imagine that there are people who once felt like their only choices were boy or girl, but who might have fit better into an in-between space, had that option been available (or at least perceived to be available).  It seems the initiatives to ease transition and to open up intermediate gender spaces may be somewhat at odds, making allies less inclined to be so in this fight. 

I see what looks like a similar conflict in sexuality circles regarding fluidity versus the continuum (i.e are bisexuals moving back and forth between gay and straight or are they occupying a discrete space on the continuum).  How this is handled in the community may offer clues as to how to (or not to) handle it here. 

L

I am speaking of the people who act more as though it is their hobby to genderbend and who do not experience gender dysphoria at all. I see difficulty in placing this in the same box and under similar label as medical transition to alleviate serious mental anguish and dysphoria. Largely because a certain portion of trans awareness seems to be coming from these people, and they seem to want a complete re-definition of biological sex and gender. They appear to want a society in which there are however many genders and expressions, while most transitioning trans people are not aiming for this but for one of the two biological sexes and associated gender roles. I do believe the public is bemused by the confusion it creates. The public is now largely aware of what a transsexual is insofar as Caitlyn Jenner and a few other prominent transsexuals have reached them; and that it may be a medical issue is also within its awareness... but the idea of breaking down what we recognize as biological sex and gender and making it something else or almost an indefinable nebulous concept does not seem to be one widely understood or endorsed. It isn't making my life easier having to explain to both cis and trans people that I don't think it is helping us at this point in time to approach it quite as forcefully as they are, if indeed it is a good idea to "do away with" the concept of the biological genders. As a former biologist, I can't say any move to throwing away scientific facts in place of emotional concepts lacking concrete evidence sits 'well' with me either. 

Nor does the policing of language now playing out in Toronto against a professor who has decided if he chooses not to use the pronouns a student tells him to that is his right in a free society. And it is his right in a free society, to not have his language policed in this way. If he goes to jail I will consider it a defeat for us all and for free speech rather than a victory for whichever trans students want to potentially prosecute this man because he didn't use a pronoun. Because my vision of a good society is one in which we do not throw our weight around to intimidate others, or to censor their speech in order to protect feelings. That is shades of Orwell and fascism, and this kind of story in the media certainly does not reflect well on trans people, to my mind. I do not want to be counted among people who want to act this way. I want to live in a free society, with free speech. Someone not using a pronoun is not violence against a person, and if it is to be thought of as 'attacking' them or their validity, I am afraid in the long run free speech is far more important to protecting a society than people's feelings, and it is a sacrifice I would personally find easy to make in order to protect that society from the creep of fascism and authoritarianism.

I don't consider either of these phenomena "good press" or necessarily positive visibility for us as trans people. I think some are moving forward without thinking about the long-term consequences of what they are doing and how they are doing it.

The increased awareness of trans issues has affected me directly.  It is only in the last couple of years that I could even begin to think that being transgender was something that could happen in my universe.  Until then, I just thought of myself as some kind of freak who would never fit in.  The increased awareness gave me the permission I needed to explore who I really was.

And it has probably eased my coming out too.  I am only out to a few selected friends, but I have had no negative reactions so far.  It likely would have been a different story say ten years ago.

On the negative side, the increased awareness has fired up opposition that didn't exist before.  People who, in the past, would have called us names and then quickly forgotten about us are now loading up their shotguns and staking out bathrooms.

 

Let us be very aware of the site rules.

I will not tolerate discrimination against gender diverse people.

Cindy

9. If you disapprove of people who are Transgender, Gay, Lesbian, or Bisexual; or activities which cross gender boundaries; take your arguments to a more appropriate website.

10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:
Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.
Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others
Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation.

One of the problems the public is going to have with us with the current trend in media is this idea that we have our own ideas about what we are and want them to accept very specific terms, definitions and legalities that they do not appear to have a say in at all. This is very aggressive behavior by some in the task of "raising awareness," and you can be sure that if you attempt to force somebody to accept an idea, they won't, and they will like you less than before you attempted to do it. This is what concerns me most about trans issues and awareness today. I do not think we will win this battle by trying to force ourselves into view and upon the expression of others as exemplified in the Toronto case.

People will respond much better to a mutually-respectful approach, just as all people do in everyday interactions. At the moment things are perhaps beginning to feel more strained than they did 2 or 3 years ago, because this visibility to be found in trans-acceptance in schools, or attempts at legal enforcement of pronoun use, etc. is trying to enforce and impose using the law, while at the same time disallowing people a voice if they have objections or concerns, or even outright trying to prosecute them for having either. Silencing people will never lead to a healthy relationship with non-trans people. This will only make our lives harder in the long run, and perhaps result in a pushback, in my opinion.

In fact, I think we need to be extra careful given the times. The lack of discourse being permitted by certain political camps is driving more people toward the right end of the political spectrum, those less inclined to accept us you might think, precisely because they are permitted to air their views more freely there. This is what I don't really want to happen because I don't want to be a transsexual under some sort of fascist regime. WE need to be ready to allow discourse and voices to be heard or we might help engineer a truly terrible situation for ourselves in the not-too-distant future.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on October 31, 2016, 09:53:39 PM
One thing I'm not appreciating is the conflation of medical transsexuality with people who just want to play around with genderbending and not transition - who don't have a serious medical issue, basically, and people attempting to force their use of pronouns (via trying to make it illegal not to) on others. I do not think these developments will make our lives easier in the long run, and I think if this keeps happening there will be a pushback against trans people. We do not want to be seen as intimidating and authoritarian or confusing/confused... that will not help our cause of being left alone to pursue our lives in peace.

Some people want to socially transition without medically transitioning. That doesn't mean they're confused.

Cultures that have a "third sex" typically don't distinguish between being gay, being a crossdresser, and being trans. We're lucky to live in a time with so many medical options. Before modern medicine there was castration and, uh, that was about it.

I didn't say they were.

We're lucky to live in a time that any sort of rights are afforded to us. That said, I do not appreciate the forceful nature of some campaigners. I do not think trying to force people to call us whatever we want, or trying to shame them for having a different opinion, is going to win friends.

And you know, this lucky time of ours may not be long-lived if the far-right of the political spectrum gain yet more ground. We won't we able to fight that sentiment by trying to impose censure on others and forcing them to do what we want - that will simply anger and alienate people from us.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on November 05, 2016, 05:37:01 PMWe're lucky to live in a time that any sort of rights are afforded to us. That said, I do not appreciate the forceful nature of some campaigners. I do not think trying to force people to call us whatever we want, or trying to shame them for having a different opinion, is going to win friends.

The easiest way to get what we want (proper gendering) is to give people what they need to elicit the desired response in the first place.  Which basically comes down to embodiment.  Then it isn't something asked for, but freely given, automatically.

But that's easier said than done.

I have to agree. The situation in Toronto is sickening to me. All they're doing is painting the entire community in a bad light and giving our opponents ammunition. Yes, it's visibility, but acting out in that way is not *good* visibility. If a mature conversation doesn't work with someone, threatening/attacking them and acting childish isn't going to do anyone any good. I'd much rather see that energy go towards achieving reasonable goals with reasonable people. Not trying to incarcerate a stick-in-the-mud for having a narrow mind and expressing his right to free speech.

Being a social justice warrior just widens the divide. Throwing fuel on the fire isn't going to let us move forward.

But the Jenner visibility seems to have been a positive thing overall. People are slowly starting to actually think about transfolk in a realistic manner and it's chipping away at the misinformed stereotypes. I've had a few conversations about Jenner with my father in law and it's opened the door to broader discussions about trans issues. We're very close, but I'm not out to him yet. But thanks to Jenner sparking some conversations, I can see that he's not judging or just reacting to transpeople. Instead, I think he realizes that he's mostly ignorant of the issues and curious as to what it's all really about. This makes me think that he'd be a supportive ally to come out to, and I'd have never known without the positive visibility that's come about in the last few years. I just hope the SJWs in Toronto don't undo it with the stunts they're pulling.

I've been having a few discussions about "Trans-trenders" lately.  I'm not entirely convinced there are anywhere near as many of them as actual gender-questioning people.  I have also made the argument that we are going through a societal transition on this issue, where people are gaining enough comfort with the idea that anyone can just try it out without ridicule, and which will hopefully end with us dropping the rigid gender norms and just accepting all gender expressions, even the trans-nonbinary.

As for the idea that there are more than 2 genders...  It is the consensus of the psychological community that psychological gender actually works like a sort of grid, where you have an axis of masculine traits and an axis of feminine traits, thus making it now a binary but a 2-dimensional thing, with the 4 quadrants being something like "male", "female", "agender", and "bigender".  Considering the tests they give out tend to have about a hundred traits each, they potentially see millions of combinations.  Gender is definitely not a binary thing, just as most people who aren't exclusively heterosexual aren't exclusively homosexual either, but often end up somewhere in between.

Quote from: PrincessCrystal on November 06, 2016, 11:23:19 AMI have also made the argument that we are going through a societal transition on this issue, where people are gaining enough comfort with the idea that anyone can just try it out without ridicule, and which will hopefully end with us dropping the rigid gender norms and just accepting all gender expressions, even the trans-nonbinary.

This is very helpful for those who aren't in the binary, as it should be.  But those who aren't in the binary are a very, very small percentage of the population. 

I do think most transitioners are on the binary -- we want to go from one pole to the other.  And because gender is initially constructed from embodiment, I don't think that process of categorization is ever going to go away.

QuoteConsidering the tests they give out tend to have about a hundred traits each, they potentially see millions of combinations.  Gender is definitely not a binary thing, just as most people who aren't exclusively heterosexual aren't exclusively homosexual either, but often end up somewhere in between.

I think there's a profound difference between gender assignment, a categorization which happens automatically and subconsciously based on embodiment (including voice), and gender expression, which is largely psychological and mutable and changes over time based on cultural growth and adaptation. 

And while we know that gender isn't really binary, for the population at large it pretty much is.  Because 99.9% of our reference points adhere to the binary construct without even trying. 

What's being asked in Toronto is to explicitly recognize and respect gender as a narrative construct, which is a very postmodern understanding of "social construction" but which neglects how human brains actually go about creating basic-level categories in the first place.  Even if they succeed in enacting narrative-based gender rules at an institutional level, the actual gendering conferred (beyond pronouns) is still going to be based on embodiment.  I for one think it's myopic and solipsistic to expect otherwise. 

Even with all the acceptance that is out there I have still been scared to come out fully to family and majority of my friends because I just really don't know if they will be that understanding to me. I guess I should just do it and not care but I don't have that confidence yet. I am still very much in the closet when it comes to telling the world that I am Transgender.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on November 01, 2016, 09:04:34 PM
One of the problems the public is going to have with us with the current trend in media is this idea that we have our own ideas about what we are and want them to accept very specific terms, definitions and legalities that they do not appear to have a say in at all. This is very aggressive behavior by some in the task of "raising awareness," and you can be sure that if you attempt to force somebody to accept an idea, they won't, and they will like you less than before you attempted to do it. This is what concerns me most about trans issues and awareness today. I do not think we will win this battle by trying to force ourselves into view and upon the expression of others as exemplified in the Toronto case.

  i must agree.

  if one person is forced to except an-others opinion and or view of the facts. the former is likely to resent the latter. with resentment can brew hate then bad things happen. when someone is killed the murderer can be sent to jail and even put to death row, but how do we get that life back? if you add the rest of society to the mix and instead use information and awareness more and more people will come around. there is always of course things that probably do need to be changed through legislation i believe, but this should be done carefully. guess i see it as a marathon not a sprint. would not be the first time i been wrong though 

  "can't we all just get along" - rodney king 

p.s. where is the mainstream media when a transgender woman is murdered and thrown in a dumpster, or a transgender man gets his head caved in and left for dead?

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has," Margaret Mead.  Understanding, enlightenment and awareness do not happen by osmosis.  Civil rights, legal protections, equity and inclusion are not freely bestowed by the majority or dominant culture. 

I never heard of transgender people as a kid growing up and today any kid with a digital device can inform themselves readily.  People came before us that suffered and sacrificed everything to realize their personal truth about their gender identity, sexual orientation and the simple right to be free and citizens with equal rights.  Yes, that takes activism and raising awareness and pushing the current boundaries of any social restriction.  Minorities do not gain rights and recognition because people were well behaved and looked like everyone else. 

Mass media outlets now feature trans awareness with books, movies, celebrities, real science and internet sites like this Place.  I consider that good and progressive news and helps more people understand someone like me and you.  If I want someone to acknowledge my narrative and reality it is up to me to put it out there accurately and stand up for my truth.

I think the increased awareness and media representation makes it easier for those who are just coming out. 

However it makes it harder to get to that stage where one is "stealth" - it seems more and more do not desire this anyways but us old-timers who still are very much favouring being stealthish, it has become harder. I was not questioned about my gender for years until recently in the past 3-4 years, people have become more aware and look for signs more - they look at low voices, masculine faces, wider shoulders, adams apple and basically scan a person not just for "male or female" but also for "trans or cis". So I had suddenly gotten the question again if I was "like one of these people I saw on TV in that transgender reality show last week - they really look like women, but the voices are lower, and since you have a low voice, I thought  maybe you are like them". This is awkward plus it clearly showed to me that he does not see "these people" as proper women but as a third gender. I do not like to be third-gendered.
And yes - there is a confusion about all the groups that now are summed unter the transgender umbrella. Transsexuals, Transgender, Nonbinary people,... etc. People are more confused if Conchita Wurst is a transsexual woman or after all a gay female impersonator? Its all "transgender" to them... and the trans community sort of encourages this by trying to stand closer together and showing unity - but not really showing the diversity and differences within that community.

I think for nonbinary people, the increased awareness is a good thing though - as it is for people who have to or want to live openly as trans, want to have a third gender, want to transition without medical changes or "passing". For all of those, the old way does not work, they have to rely on an increased awareness and acceptance