Quote from: anjaq on December 01, 2016, 04:51:50 AM
Conchita Wurst

  never heard of her did not know you were talking about a person lol. did a web search and love her shes awesome.

Quote from: anjaq on December 01, 2016, 04:51:50 AMI think the increased awareness and media representation makes it easier for those who are just coming out.

However it makes it harder to get to that stage where one is "stealth" - it seems more and more do not desire this anyways but us old-timers who still are very much favouring being stealthish, it has become harder.

Agreed. 

QuoteI was not questioned about my gender for years until recently in the past 3-4 years, people have become more aware and look for signs more - they look at low voices, masculine faces, wider shoulders, adams apple and basically scan a person not just for "male or female" but also for "trans or cis". So I had suddenly gotten the question again if I was "like one of these people I saw on TV in that transgender reality show last week - they really look like women, but the voices are lower, and since you have a low voice, I thought  maybe you are like them". This is awkward plus it clearly showed to me that he does not see "these people" as proper women but as a third gender. I do not like to be third-gendered.

Of all these things, voice is probably the most significant.

Anyways, regardless, we have to live down such speculation.  Anyone who is somewhat variant has to.  Even cis women.  Like, the butch lesbian being confronted in the bathroom -- while this is in response to medieval bathroom laws in the U.S., it's still a kind of "gender policing," which is exactly what your story shows, people wanting to "third gender" someone who has clearly positioned herself on the binary. 

So what did you say, Anja, to that rude request?

Quote from: anjaq on December 01, 2016, 04:51:50 AM
I do not like to be third-gendered.

That's how I feel. Some days.  Probably most days. Some days I'm OK with the idea. Does that make me non binary?
Or just realistic. For example, yesterday I got misgendered twice and ma'amed three times. That's 3-2. A winning record.  I can live with that.  I actually felt good about the day overall.

Because the old days are gone for good.  Society is, I think, becoming progressively more hyper-aware of the smallest gender differences and is now "on the look out" for us. That's only going to get worse.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on October 31, 2016, 10:43:48 PM
Nor does the policing of language now playing out in Toronto against a professor who has decided if he chooses not to use the pronouns a student tells him to that is his right in a free society. And it is his right in a free society, to not have his language policed in this way. If he goes to jail I will consider it a defeat for us all and for free speech rather than a victory for whichever trans students want to potentially prosecute this man because he didn't use a pronoun.

Just to be clear, there is absolutely no possibility, no matter what this professor states, that he will go to jail.  He has blown this all out of proportion to play the martyr.  Certain members of the media have used this to further an agenda that's not favourable to trans-people.  It's very similar to the bathroom issue in the US.

When I was younger a gay friend of mine, who had a Masters in psychology, told me there was no such thing as bi-sexual people.  He believed they were just gay and afraid to come fully out.  He believed there was a sexual binary, gay or straight, that was it.   Of course we all know this is a ridiculous statement.  This quick little comment pops into my mind every time I hear someone dismiss others because they believe their situation is the only valid one.

I've also heard lesbians and gay people who have wanted the T in LGBT removed because they thought it would hurt their efforts to forward gay rights.  Some believe we're a little too fringe for mainstream society and will make it much more difficult for them.

What I'm trying to get at here is that we of all people should be careful dismissing a group that's not exactly like us.

Take care,
Paige

Quote from: Lily Rose on December 01, 2016, 08:23:39 AM
  never heard of her did not know you were talking about a person lol. did a web search and love her shes awesome.

LOL, yes, (s)he is famous in Europe only, I guess. But its a female impersonator - really nice guy, but not really trans in the sense that he would want to change body or social role permanently

Quote from: Sophia Sage on December 01, 2016, 09:23:01 AM
So what did you say, Anja, to that rude request?

I denied it - I asked if I look like a man to him and he started stumbling around and mumbling something about my voice being so low and so on. The next day his girlfriend told me that he was drunk and sort of apologized and that I do not look at all like a guy...

Quote from: Jane Emily on December 01, 2016, 10:42:58 AM
That's how I feel. Some days.  Probably most days. Some days I'm OK with the idea. Does that make me non binary?

I guess it does - if you really like that. If you just take it and swallow it of say ->-bleeped-<- it because it is not good to get angry at it everytime - then probably it has nothing to do with nonbinary.

Quote from: Sandboxed on October 31, 2016, 09:47:54 AM
I get this vibe too, and they always need to tell me the real reason I'm trans. I liked it better when I was just a freak.



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Lol. I feel ya

Quote from: anjaq on December 01, 2016, 04:54:22 PMI denied it - I asked if I look like a man to him and he started stumbling around and mumbling something about my voice being so low and so on. The next day his girlfriend told me that he was drunk and sort of apologized and that I do not look at all like a guy...

Now I'm wondering the opposite -- does the out and proud contingent make it easier for those of us who practice non-disclosure, simply by virtue of conditioning the rest of the world to expect disclosure?

Again, this makes me wonder just how much "trans" is a narrative category...

OP, I am certainly in better shape due to both societal visibility and individual visibility of other trans (and LGBQIA) people locally. I've been out  with anyone who needed to know for a couple of decades and out to everyone I know since before I started to transition last year.

Quote from: T.K.G.W. on November 01, 2016, 09:04:34 PM
One of the problems the public is going to have with us with the current trend in media is this idea that we have our own ideas about what we are and want them to accept very specific terms, definitions and legalities that they do not appear to have a say in at all. This is very aggressive behavior by some in the task of "raising awareness," and you can be sure that if you attempt to force somebody to accept an idea, they won't, and they will like you less than before you attempted to do it. This is what concerns me most about trans issues and awareness today. I do not think we will win this battle by trying to force ourselves into view and upon the expression of others as exemplified in the Toronto case.

I find it deplorable that a professor of psychology would be making a stand on ground that's so far from the current understanding in his chosen profession. Of course he's not the only one, we have our own nutjob Paul McHugh in the US at Johns Hopkins and I'm sure there are other less well know examples.

I can't speak for UofT but at the uni where I work any professor who chose to disrespectfully misgender colleagues or students as this fellow says he wants to would be coming in for serious faculty censure. He can hold whatever (however obviously wrong) beliefs he wants about the non-existence of non-binary identities, that is a matter of science and always debatable. Failure to afford basic courtesy and respect in an academic environment isn't tolerable professional behavior.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on December 04, 2016, 08:23:49 PM
Now I'm wondering the opposite -- does the out and proud contingent make it easier for those of us who practice non-disclosure, simply by virtue of conditioning the rest of the world to expect disclosure?

Maybe - maybe people also expect trans people to always just come out without being asked or to openly show their trans-ness by certain looks or the voice. People certainly expect somehow that they can identify a trans person by some traits.
But no, I do not think it makes it easier for those who do not want to disclose because essentially in that situation I had to use a bit of a "white lie". I was asked if I am "transgender" and I told myself it is ok to say no because I do not regard myself as transgender but as a woman who may have had transsexuality - but not transgender - its a bit nitpicking of course. Also I tend to not outright deny these things but use counterquestions - like "are you trans?" - "do you think I look like it!?" - "oh, no, I am sorry, I did not meant to say that, you look good...".
I still do hate these situations, though. And I think they happen more now that trans is a mainstream topic

Just an example of how the UofT professor and others are being used to push an agenda.

The radicals have taken over: Academic extremism comes to Canada
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/academic-extremism-comes-to-canada/article33185073/

Margaret Wente the columnist who wrote this has been quite vocal in her opposition to transgender people.