So you are being held captive by yourself. Of course that's true with everyone, since anyone can just walk away from almost anything and be free.

I suppose your first step is to decide you want to be well and free. You can contact a counselor online if you want

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfO3B57E6NpIn-KsVjvmLLw

or call your nearest LGBTQ center for help.

If you wanted to walk away from your wife, you would. You could just do it, and if she tried to stop you, just say that you're sorry she feels that way, but of course you need to do what's best for you. If she threatens to leave, just say you love her and will miss her but of course she's free to do as she likes.

If you are calm, steady, and keep repeating the same things, while continuing to walk past her out the door, short of her attacking you physically, she can't actually stop her. Or simply walk away without telling her anything.

If she asks you questions, just keep asking, "Why do you want to know?"

But be calm, steady, without anger, and just get your stuff and go. The only one holding you prisoner is yourself.

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 24, 2016, 04:33:28 AM
Unfortunately the therapist I saw merely made me feel worse about myself.
...
I just don't know what to do any more.

One thing to do is to find a better therapist!  There are good ones and bad ones.

A lot of the advice in this thread is sound, and worth thinking about. In an effort not to echo what's already been said, and just to try a slightly different tack, hon. I'd like to ask you a few questions, if that's okay?

Having looked through your posts, it strikes me that part of the problem is that people have been telling you who, and how you are, your whole life. And this has stuck. To the detriment of developing your own sense of self and self worth.

Several sentences stand out:

QuoteI know I'm screwed up, equally on more than one occasion I've been accused of passive aggressive behaviour, attention seeking etc. I doubt anyone would miss me, after all I'm worth more dead than alive.

QuoteUnfortunately the therapist I saw merely made me feel worse about myself. She pooh-poohed CBT, and effectively said I enjoyed being miserable, being a servant, liked having people dependent on me... that seems to be a common opinion amongst many people.

Quoteevery time I speak to someone I feel like I've had a kicking.

There's a theme here, sweetie. People have told you how to feel. And you've felt it. It seems like you've been a blank canvas that everyone around you has painted on in strokes made of tears. And as an individual, you don't know who you are anymore. Or maybe who you ever were? I don't mean in terms of gender. I mean as a person.

So, I'd like to ask you. How do you feel about yourself? Forget for a moment what everyone else has told you, and just have a look inside yourself. What do you see? When you say you know you're screwed up... how do you know? Is it how you really feel, or how those around you have told you to feel?

Are there things you like about yourself? Things you're proud of? Take a few minutes and think about it.

One of the first steps to saving yourself, is to believe you're worth saving. This is also one of the hardest. But I believe you can do it. No one is worthless. No one. That includes you. *extra big hug* Take it at your own pace, okay? It takes a lot to overcome years of negative programming. But that's all it is. Listen to the folks here, and just have a think about what I've asked, okay? I believe in you, even if you don't believe in yourself.

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 24, 2016, 04:33:28 AM
i have suggested that on several occasions. Her response; "I don't need to go, *I* don't have a problem". I know I'm screwed up, equally on more than one occasion I've been accused of passive aggressive behaviour, attention seeking etc. I doubt anyone would miss me, after all I'm worth more dead than alive.

Pretty much everybody is screwed up, the difference is you are trying to get better and most people tend to ignore it.

Money wise, you may be worth more dead that a live, and for a while it was true of me as well. But to you, you will be worth more happy and alive than dead. We transition in order to make the remaining years of our life better and having lived more of my life as a post transition female, I wouldn't have done it any different. The future is waiting for you and all you need to do is take it.

Quote from: Sephirah on December 24, 2016, 10:18:06 AM
There's a theme here, sweetie. People have told you how to feel. And you've felt it. It seems like you've been a blank canvas that everyone around you has painted on in strokes made of tears. And as an individual, you don't know who you are anymore. Or maybe who you ever were? I don't mean in terms of gender. I mean as a person.

I don't think I've ever known who I was, I suppose it goes back to my parents who constantly reinforced my unimportance, told me that I should put others first, that if I dared ask for anything for myself I was being greedy. What I wanted was/is secondary.

QuoteSo, I'd like to ask you. How do you feel about yourself? Forget for a moment what everyone else has told you, and just have a look inside yourself. What do you see? When you say you know you're screwed up... how do you know? Is it how you really feel, or how those around you have told you to feel?

Are there things you like about yourself? Things you're proud of? Take a few minutes and think about it.

I'm pretty handy, I know how to fix things, I've been tinkering with stuff from an early age, because machines were more reliable than people - look after a machine, it won't let you down. Unlike people.

QuoteOne of the first steps to saving yourself, is to believe you're worth saving. This is also one of the hardest. But I believe you can do it. No one is worthless. No one. That includes you. *extra big hug* Take it at your own pace, okay? It takes a lot to overcome years of negative programming. But that's all it is. Listen to the folks here, and just have a think about what I've asked, okay? I believe in you, even if you don't believe in yourself.

I wish I could believe in myself. I don't feel that anyone's ever believed in me, *really* believed in me. People have said they do, but in general their actions have proved otherwise. "I told you 6 weeks ago you should have done x, y and z, you haven't done it yet, why not? You don't want to be helped, you're just attention seeking." I joined several other forums to reach out to people, hell, I even joined this one and deleted my account because I felt like people were getting fed up of me, stopped answering my postings, told me to message them if I wanted to chat then stopped replying. I'm not too great at reaching out any more, I even joined facebook and have a total of 11 "friends", of whom about 4 ever contact me. I've come to the conclusion that I need other people more than they need me.

Hi,
I am so sorry to hear about your situation! Your wife is a narcissist from everything you have said! It's all about them, they turn everyone against you and everything that goes wrong is your fault. There are some good mental health and support sites if your search the word.
The trouble is you are also dealing with your own battles, and don't need the constant stress of a narcissist downloading on you. There are ways to deal with them but you need to be strong to do it.
I hope this helps as I have had to deal with narcissistic people before and it is very painful when they are close like a parent or partner. Good luck, we all need support every now and then! 🌻

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 23, 2016, 04:40:02 AM
I'm lonely, I'm afraid and I can't see a way out.

There is always a way out. You just have to want to take it.

The first step is always the hardest but you can make it. Find a good lawyer and a good therapist and with this support team you can move mountains.

Gesendet von meinem SM-N915FY mit Tapatalk

Quote from: Kylo on December 27, 2016, 06:38:38 PM
There is always a way out. You just have to want to take it.

I want to, but I'm afraid to.

I've also considered the other way out.

Quote from: Rikigirl on December 27, 2016, 06:06:20 PM
Hi,
I am so sorry to hear about your situation! Your wife is a narcissist from everything you have said! It's all about them, they turn everyone against you and everything that goes wrong is your fault. There are some good mental health and support sites if your search the word.
The trouble is you are also dealing with your own battles, and don't need the constant stress of a narcissist downloading on you. There are ways to deal with them but you need to be strong to do it.
I hope this helps as I have had to deal with narcissistic people before and it is very painful when they are close like a parent or partner. Good luck, we all need support every now and then! 🌻

Ironically she is convinced her brother's wife has narcissistic tendencies. But she is blind to her own displaying of them.

It's wearing me down, and the problem is, I don't want to see my daughter suffer. It's not easy having a mother who favours one child over the other - I know that to my cost - and I can't bear to think of my daughter suffering without me here.

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 28, 2016, 06:06:18 AM
Ironically she is convinced her brother's wife has narcissistic tendencies. But she is blind to her own displaying of them.

It's wearing me down, and the problem is, I don't want to see my daughter suffer. It's not easy having a mother who favours one child over the other - I know that to my cost - and I can't bear to think of my daughter suffering without me here.

Yes that fits blaming others but even more, favouring one child over another. Narcissistic parents play the favourite child against the other. I feel your pain but the kids see through it after a while. Not easy to solve but you have to fix yourself first to be able to help your children! I wish you all the strength to get through this!

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 28, 2016, 06:06:18 AM
It's wearing me down, and the problem is, I don't want to see my daughter suffer. It's not easy having a mother who favours one child over the other - I know that to my cost - and I can't bear to think of my daughter suffering without me here.

She is already suffering and the best you can do is, to do everything to get custody for your daughter.

I don't know how it is in your country but over here, the opinion of an eleven year old child is heard and with fourteen they can decide where to stay.

Have you ever spoken with your daughter if she would like to stay with her mother or with you in case of a separation?

I was very surprised by my daughters (10y) "adult" decision and opinions...
She came to me and told me, that she wants to stay more with me than her mother.

Gesendet von meinem SM-N915FY mit Tapatalk

Quote from: Rikigirl on December 28, 2016, 07:38:19 AM
Yes that fits blaming others but even more, favouring one child over another. Narcissistic parents play the favourite child against the other. I feel your pain but the kids see through it after a while. Not easy to solve but you have to fix yourself first to be able to help your children! I wish you all the strength to get through this!

I wish I had some strength... just feel so worthless and hopeless. Trouble is, my parents were forever fighting, and I saw so much conflict as a kid that I'll go to extraordinary lengths now to avoid it.

I dislike fighting as well but there are battles that you need to fight. The best thing to do is ignore the little things that aren't worth the trouble and put all your effort into the things that count. It will be difficult but you need to do it not only for yourself but your daughter. Start with a therapist and that will help you with your fears. Get a lawyer as soon as possible to protect your rights. Don't confront your wife until all three of you think it's time. This time next year you could be looking back wondering why you though it was so difficult.

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 28, 2016, 08:49:42 AM
I wish I had some strength... just feel so worthless and hopeless. Trouble is, my parents were forever fighting, and I saw so much conflict as a kid that I'll go to extraordinary lengths now to avoid it.

I understand, I don't think any normal person let alone one on HRT wants to be around conflict or fighting. Unfortunately I don't have an answer for you, but as many others have said go get a good support team together, starting with a mental health therapist. I had an aggressive one for my gender dysphoria and send me down a bad path of self doubt and anxiety. Once you have the support, you can decide a solution and stand up for yourself you will get through this and be so happy you did for your kids and yourself! 

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 27, 2016, 05:37:25 PM
I don't think I've ever known who I was, I suppose it goes back to my parents who constantly reinforced my unimportance, told me that I should put others first, that if I dared ask for anything for myself I was being greedy. What I wanted was/is secondary.

Okay, so what do you want? Imagine for a moment that you could have anything you wanted. Anything. You could be anyone you wanted, do anything you wanted... what would that be? Imagine there was no one going to tell you that you can't. No one to get in the way of your hopes and dreams. What would they be?

QuoteI'm pretty handy, I know how to fix things, I've been tinkering with stuff from an early age, because machines were more reliable than people - look after a machine, it won't let you down. Unlike people.

And what attributes do you need to be able to do that? To be able to fix things? I am utterly useless at it. If it were possible to have two left hands, I would have them, lol. And I've always been a little envious of people who were good with their hands and able to work out how to fix stuff. So what qualities do you need to be able to do that, hmm? Patience? Attention to detail? Determination? What else?

QuoteI wish I could believe in myself. I don't feel that anyone's ever believed in me, *really* believed in me. People have said they do, but in general their actions have proved otherwise. "I told you 6 weeks ago you should have done x, y and z, you haven't done it yet, why not? You don't want to be helped, you're just attention seeking." I joined several other forums to reach out to people, hell, I even joined this one and deleted my account because I felt like people were getting fed up of me, stopped answering my postings, told me to message them if I wanted to chat then stopped replying. I'm not too great at reaching out any more, I even joined facebook and have a total of 11 "friends", of whom about 4 ever contact me. I've come to the conclusion that I need other people more than they need me.

Sweetie, part of it isn't about reaching out, it's about reaching in. About seeing the things inside yourself that allow you to start to believe in yourself. You can't see other people's belief in you if you don't believe in yourself. As I said before, to save yourself you have to get to a point where you feel you're worth saving. That there's something inside you that's worth fighting for.

It's abundantly clear from your posts that you have little to no self-esteem. It's been driven out of you, by the sounds of it. And because of that, you have so much negative self-talk inside you that it's hard to see the good in anything, or anyone. Because you have such a low opinion of yourself that you think the world is tired of you, even when it isn't. Rather than looking at the good, you see only the bad. Because it reinforces the negative monologue you have in your head. It's confirmation bias and it's leading to a cycle that has you trapped.

I've been there. I think a lot of people here have been there. Other people can't give you what you need if you're not in a position to believe or accept it, hon. If your view of yourself is so... "everything is my fault", then no matter what happens, that's the loop playing in your mind. And it's applied to every piece of external information you're exposed to. The negative self-talk colours every action and word done and spoken by anyone around you. It's like seeing the world through coloured glasses. And that view of the world influences how you act, which just goes on to make you feel worse and worse. That's what low self esteem is, sweetie. It's a downward spiral. But it's one you can break out of. It isn't easy, but it can be done.

If you haven't already, take a look at this thread. Maybe there's something in there that can help you.

Making changes is hard. It's very hard. People take it at their own pace. That's all you can do. But it can be done. And you can do it. Whether you feel anyone's ever believed in you or not, I still do. The fact that you're talking about it is a step. And one step is all it takes to start a journey. Keep going.

*hugs*

Quote from: Sephirah on December 29, 2016, 05:58:07 PM
Okay, so what do you want? Imagine for a moment that you could have anything you wanted. Anything. You could be anyone you wanted, do anything you wanted... what would that be? Imagine there was no one going to tell you that you can't. No one to get in the way of your hopes and dreams. What would they be?

I really don't know any more. It's not a question I ask myself much. Suppose all my hopes and dreams, all my ambitions, have been crushed over the years. But I would like to be happy, content, feel appreciated.

Quote
And what attributes do you need to be able to do that? To be able to fix things? I am utterly useless at it. If it were possible to have two left hands, I would have them, lol. And I've always been a little envious of people who were good with their hands and able to work out how to fix stuff. So what qualities do you need to be able to do that, hmm? Patience? Attention to detail? Determination? What else?

I suppose patience, attention to detail and a certain amount of logic come into it... Sometimes I can't fix stuff, but then I frequently end up taking it apart to see how it works anyway...

QuoteSweetie, part of it isn't about reaching out, it's about reaching in. About seeing the things inside yourself that allow you to start to believe in yourself. You can't see other people's belief in you if you don't believe in yourself. As I said before, to save yourself you have to get to a point where you feel you're worth saving. That there's something inside you that's worth fighting for.

It's abundantly clear from your posts that you have little to no self-esteem. It's been driven out of you, by the sounds of it. And because of that, you have so much negative self-talk inside you that it's hard to see the good in anything, or anyone. Because you have such a low opinion of yourself that you think the world is tired of you, even when it isn't. Rather than looking at the good, you see only the bad. Because it reinforces the negative monologue you have in your head. It's confirmation bias and it's leading to a cycle that has you trapped.

It gets tiring to be told that I'm hard work. Two people I was close to, who I classed as friends-real friends, not Facebook friends, told me straight that they couldn't cope with me any more. I've been slated for my perceived negativity, it seems to happen a lot, people slate me for being negative which just feeds the negativity. I feel worse about myself and I just go a little bit further down the spiral.

Quote
I've been there. I think a lot of people here have been there. Other people can't give you what you need if you're not in a position to believe or accept it, hon. If your view of yourself is so... "everything is my fault", then no matter what happens, that's the loop playing in your mind. And it's applied to every piece of external information you're exposed to. The negative self-talk colours every action and word done and spoken by anyone around you. It's like seeing the world through coloured glasses. And that view of the world influences how you act, which just goes on to make you feel worse and worse. That's what low self esteem is, sweetie. It's a downward spiral. But it's one you can break out of. It isn't easy, but it can be done.

If you haven't already, take a look at this thread. Maybe there's something in there that can help you.

Making changes is hard. It's very hard. People take it at their own pace. That's all you can do. But it can be done. And you can do it. Whether you feel anyone's ever believed in you or not, I still do. The fact that you're talking about it is a step. And one step is all it takes to start a journey. Keep going.

*hugs*

I have tried so hard to break the spiral. I've spent more money than I care to think about on therapy and self help books. I've tried to change, but I feel that I've taken two steps back for every one forward. I have seriously thought of heading off with a bottle of pills and a bottle of vodka..  but if I vocalise those thoughts I'm accused of attention seeking.

Thank you for caring, and for believing in me.

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 30, 2016, 03:17:18 AM

I have tried so hard to break the spiral. I've spent more money than I care to think about on therapy and self help books. I've tried to change, but I feel that I've taken two steps back for every one forward. I have seriously thought of heading off with a bottle of pills and a bottle of vodka..  but if I vocalise those thoughts I'm accused of attention seeking.

Thank you for caring, and for believing in me.

I do care and believe that if nothing changes, nothing changes. If therapy and self help books haven't worked don't take the path of pills and vodka! That will leave your children in a bad place without a parent and your wife telling everyone I told you so! Make a change that will change things for you. Whatever it takes, cause where you are physically and mentally it's not getting any better. A holiday on your own, move somewhere else.....whatever is going to get you into a different state of mind. You need to help yourself to change your negativity!

Good luck......Riki

Quote from: DownwardSpiral on December 30, 2016, 03:17:18 AM
I really don't know any more. It's not a question I ask myself much. Suppose all my hopes and dreams, all my ambitions, have been crushed over the years. But I would like to be happy, content, feel appreciated.

And what would allow you to feel those things? In an ideal world, what do you think would let you be happy? Just for now, allow yourself to ask that question. Free of "but I can't because..." and "I'm not allowed to because...". Visualise a place in your mind that you'd like to be at. Who you'd like to be and what you'd like to be doing. Tell me about it.

QuoteI suppose patience, attention to detail and a certain amount of logic come into it... Sometimes I can't fix stuff, but then I frequently end up taking it apart to see how it works anyway...

So, curiosity too. Inquisitiveness. A desire to learn and understand. These are all good traits, hon. Things about you that you can be proud of, and embrace. Maybe you can use them somehow, hmm? To give you a little bit more confidence in yourself. Have you thought about learning something new? Maybe taking a local course somewhere on something that interests you? It seems to me that you have the aptitude for it.

QuoteIt gets tiring to be told that I'm hard work. Two people I was close to, who I classed as friends-real friends, not Facebook friends, told me straight that they couldn't cope with me any more. I've been slated for my perceived negativity, it seems to happen a lot, people slate me for being negative which just feeds the negativity. I feel worse about myself and I just go a little bit further down the spiral.

There's a little trick people sometimes use when they're trying to be more confident. It's basically "if you can't make it, fake it." Which, on the surface seems a bit of an odd thing to do, huh? How can you be something when you don't feel it. But the thing about it is, as you've really just shown, we feed off other people's reactions to us. Whether we know it or not. And if you're feeling shy and timid, then people treat you as such. Ignore you, overlook you. And that makes you feel worse. It reinforces that belief about yourself. As you say above, it feeds the way you already feel about yourself.

So, hypothetically, how do you think folks would react to you if they saw you as positive and outgoing? And how would those reactions make you feel? Do you think it would actually make you feel more positive?

Something else to consider is that low self-esteem will always make you feel that way. Because you blame yourself. Even if those friends you're talking about are just having a really off time and coping with a lot themselves. I've been there myself. Many times. It's so easy to think people are just plain fed up with you because you're not the life of the party. You start to ask yourself what it is about you. What don't they like? What did you do wrong?

You'd be surprised how often it isn't about you at all. But about other people being at a place in their life where, for whatever reason, they can't be as supportive as you need. Or they just snap. But for someone with low self-esteem, it's so, so hard to see that. Because the self loathing is always there, and everything is your fault, you know? Even when it isn't.

QuoteI have tried so hard to break the spiral. I've spent more money than I care to think about on therapy and self help books. I've tried to change, but I feel that I've taken two steps back for every one forward. I have seriously thought of heading off with a bottle of pills and a bottle of vodka..  but if I vocalise those thoughts I'm accused of attention seeking.

Thank you for caring, and for believing in me.

Sweetie, those things... they're tools. Yes they can help, but breaking the spiral has to come from inside you. If I could suggest something... do you think perhaps you've been looking for a solution from outside? And that's where the problem lies? It strikes me throughout your posts that people have been telling you your whole life who you are, what's best for you, what you can and can't do. And it's the only way you know how to be. So you're also looking to others to tell you how to fix things, and how to feel better?

No matter how much money you throw at it, and how many libraries of self help books or armies of therapists you go to see, they don't have the solution. They don't have the magic pill or little-known secret to make it better.You have to do that yourself. That's where the change lies. This is what I've been getting at. You have to listen to yourself rather than others. It's okay to do that. What you want does matter. How you feel is important. You're not worthless. You're a human being. With the same wants, needs and desires as anyone else. And you're just as valuable. You just need to start looking at the negative scripts your mind is reading from right now. See how relevant they still are to you.

You can do this. Everyone has the capacity for change within themselves.

*hugs* Keep going, okay? You will get there.

Quote from: Sephirah on December 30, 2016, 08:51:16 AM
And what would allow you to feel those things? In an ideal world, what do you think would let you be happy? Just for now, allow yourself to ask that question. Free of "but I can't because..." and "I'm not allowed to because...". Visualise a place in your mind that you'd like to be at. Who you'd like to be and what you'd like to be doing. Tell me about it.

Feeling appreciated. Feeling free to be myself. All my life I've had the most vivid dreams, mundane even, of just doing normal things but being female... being accepted. These have faded over the past couple of years to the extent that they never occur any more, or at least I don't remember them. But as a start, I'd like to be able to explore my gender role more.

Before this however I need to get back on the weight loss programme...

QuoteThere's a little trick people sometimes use when they're trying to be more confident. It's basically "if you can't make it, fake it." Which, on the surface seems a bit of an odd thing to do, huh? How can you be something when you don't feel it. But the thing about it is, as you've really just shown, we feed off other people's reactions to us. Whether we know it or not. And if you're feeling shy and timid, then people treat you as such. Ignore you, overlook you. And that makes you feel worse. It reinforces that belief about yourself. As you say above, it feeds the way you already feel about yourself.

So, hypothetically, how do you think folks would react to you if they saw you as positive and outgoing? And how would those reactions make you feel? Do you think it would actually make you feel more positive?

I don't know. I've tried to hide stuff in the past, but I can't help but think that people see through me, and generally the people I attract are those who want to be "friends" because of what I can do for them, not because they actually like me...

QuoteSomething else to consider is that low self-esteem will always make you feel that way. Because you blame yourself. Even if those friends you're talking about are just having a really off time and coping with a lot themselves. I've been there myself. Many times. It's so easy to think people are just plain fed up with you because you're not the life of the party. You start to ask yourself what it is about you. What don't they like? What did you do wrong?

You'd be surprised how often it isn't about you at all. But about other people being at a place in their life where, for whatever reason, they can't be as supportive as you need. Or they just snap. But for someone with low self-esteem, it's so, so hard to see that. Because the self loathing is always there, and everything is your fault, you know? Even when it isn't.

Always having your faults pointed out gets you down. My parents, 2 wives, have both been only too quick to point out the 1 thing I haven't done rather than the 999 I have. Being told "you don't want to be helped". Just gets me down. I told my wife that, her answer was "it's not all about you"...

QuoteNo matter how much money you throw at it, and how many libraries of self help books or armies of therapists you go to see, they don't have the solution. They don't have the magic pill or little-known secret to make it better.You have to do that yourself. That's where the change lies. This is what I've been getting at. You have to listen to yourself rather than others. It's okay to do that. What you want does matter. How you feel is important. You're not worthless. You're a human being. With the same wants, needs and desires as anyone else. And you're just as valuable. You just need to start looking at the negative scripts your mind is reading from right now. See how relevant they still are to you.

You can do this. Everyone has the capacity for change within themselves.

*hugs* Keep going, okay? You will get there.

I'd just like to know how[/i] to.