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Suicide posts

Started by Audrey, January 29, 2008, 12:31:06 AM

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deviousxen

Quote from: Renate on January 29, 2008, 05:18:35 AM
Quote from: Audrey on January 29, 2008, 12:31:06 AM
I don't appreciate people talking about killing themselves all the time.
My reaction to that statement is so negative that I'll just leave it at that.

I don't think suicidal people should be constrained by etiquette.
If you are suicidal, make contact with somebody, somehow.
Call a friend, call a suicide help line, post here, PM someone, PM me.
Contact with a caring human is the only thing that will help.
Say whatever you can manage to say to someone who will listen.

The question of whether suicide is selfish or a sin is pointless.
Many people commit suicide over a misguided sense of self-sacrifice.

Quite often whether someone commits suicide or not depends on the most trivial circumstance.
Consider that you could make that tiny difference.

Renate

Posted on: 08/01/29, 06:09:29
Quote from: tekla on January 29, 2008, 01:05:42 AM
... not the advice of random, untrained, people.
Quite often the advice of random, untrained people is the most important first tier of help for suicidal people.

That these random, untrained people may become a bit trained, there are Online Workshops
from the National Center for Suicide Prevention Training (NCSPT).

Renate
The misguided self-sacrifice view makes sense.
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SusanK

Quote from: Audrey on January 29, 2008, 12:31:06 AM
All I am trying to say is that if your having a problem there is plenty of people, on this forum, and in real life, that can help.  Just flat saying "I'm going to kill myself" doesn't really lend itself well to getting things figured out.  Its too easy to get caught up in the thought of suicide as an answer instead of trying to deal with what is making you feel that way.  Lets discuss solutions to problems, and not that solution.  I have lost one too many people in my life to suicide and the aftermath is devastating.

Rereading Audrey's post, I for one, and maybe others, didn't fully understand the post. While it's fair to criticize the post, I think there is an idea here that is fair for discussion. Suicide shouldn't be treated lightly, but there are some people who threaten suicide for anything but wanting to actually commit suicide. The circumstances and/or situation in life isn't all that good, and thinking out loud often leads to expressed throught that aren't fully realized. And this is especially true on forums where you sometime forget the publicness of them.

I too have lost family and family of friends to suicide, both slow and insidious, and quick and dramatic. And everyone even thinking of suicide deserves help. But I will say the topic, even as expressed in the original post, is fair for dicussion. If we can't say what we think in an open environment, then what's left? The key is trying to find a positive way to express an negative thought or idea, and sometimes, like me, the results isn't always what I meant. But we're all human, and allowed to update our own words.

Thanks for thought.

--Susan--
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tekla

Yes, people can - and do - commit it anywhere.  Yes, it is a huge problem in our community.  It's just that SF has a unique problem in being a mecca, the number one destination for it, a bridge with its own fatal grandeur, a monument, complete with its own documentary (The Bridge) - and its own long running public/political debate.  The debate being, do we do extensive, expensive ($15 to 20 million), and no matter how you cut it, some pretty ugly modifications on something that is considered world-wide to be monument (and a symbol of our place) in order to stop it?  And, as noted, it even has its own bus stop on the 28 (and the 29 too, the 76 on weekends, and every GGT bus). 

The numbers are pretty shocking.  So far - since 1937, over 1,200 have jumped,  including Roy Raymond, the founder of Victoria's Secret, in 1993.  26 have survived - including one who came back and did it again.  People jump and kill themselves there, on the average of 19 a year since its opened. In the peak year, 1977, there were 40 suicides, with current rates being a jumper every two weeks or so.  That is of the ones we know about.  So the people of the area are one of the few groups I know of that talks of suicide as a matter of public policy, and political debate because we are very aware that The Golden Gate Bridge is the world's No. 1 suicide magnet, in part because it makes suicide so easy.

I'm with Susan, and more than once I've been out there (as it is one of my favorite places, to walk, to ride my bike, take pictures, to stand and think) and picked up the call box and phoned the control booth or whatever it is and said "I think this person is in trouble."  (And everyone who knows me is aware I'm not a real 'call the police' type.)  Others I've asked, to make sure they are just contemplating their navel and not the end of days.   On two occasions I've had the Highway Patrol come up to me and ask if I was OK - something about standing there and scribbling in a note book, or they don't see the camera and misunderstand that I'm waiting for the light to be just so - must have got some other good Samaritan to call me in or they were watching me on the cameras.  I've been on it when people have gone.  I have friends who've been driving across it when a car pulls over in front of them, someone gets out and then they're gone.

But the debate is interesting.  Do we change it for everyone because a few use it in that way? 

Support is not suicide counseling.  It falls way short of that.  Support is often more akin to cheerleading, "Go, Rah, Team!" and like cheerleading almost anyone can do it.  But also like cheerleading, its not the game and it rarely effects the outcome.  Suicide counseling is the real deal, and on that level takes some pretty serious training (with very serious people, with a high burnout rate), and I don't think its a bad thing to note, or to point people in that direction.  It also tends to be one on one, and private, not a public posting.  When the people trained for it are out on the the bridge, we all don't join in with our own versions of "life is worth living."  We let the person who knows what they are doing, do it.  If only because the "life is worth living" speech is one that often does more harm than good - because you are giving them reason for yourself, not them as a rule.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Rachael

Quote from: Laura91 on January 29, 2008, 09:02:45 AM
I don't think that its wrong for anyone to vent about anything here if they have no one to talk to, no matter what the subject may be. For someone to label them as a "drama queen" or an "attention seeker" is pretty damn cold and insensitive in my opinion. Some people make the case that "so what? its just the internet? it does not matter", well, thats just a hypocritical cop out.
sorry, but thats just what some people are....
sorry to use a definition, but some people do use 'zomg suicidez' as a cry for attention... thats a simple fact, 'insensitivity'
R >:D
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Berliegh

Quote from: Laura91 on January 29, 2008, 09:02:45 AM
I don't think that its wrong for anyone to vent about anything here if they have no one to talk to, no matter what the subject may be. For someone to label them as a "drama queen" or an "attention seeker" is pretty damn cold and insensitive in my opinion. Some people make the case that "so what? its just the internet? it does not matter", well, thats just a hypocritical cop out.

I have a Transsexual friend who attends Charing Cross GIC.....I've lost count of the times she's rung me and told me she's slit her wrists because she can't access treatment through the NHS.......some say they are gonna do it and some actually do it......there definitely needs to be more support for people, especially in the U.K where there isn't the support, councelling or therapy you have in the U.S.......I think we all get to a low point at one time or another (and I've been there) and all cases should be taken seriously no matter what we think or what the circumstances may be...
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lady amarant

We've all been there. Some of us may have been stopped by religious programming, others by the thought of what it would do to the people we love, some by fear of death more than fear of life, some because they were just too stubborn to quit.

We all get those times when it all just gets too much. Not every suicide rant is real, for sure. But we all know what it is we are dealing with, we all know how painful it can be to lose the people we love over it, to face an uncertain future, to be completely out of place just existing. Sometimes people just need a release, and we should respect that and help each other when we need that rather than get all hissy about it, one way or another. Some of us are lucky and we don't lose much in return for successful transition and acceptance. Some of us lose everything and come away with virtually nothing for it. For some of us the only place we can come to for support is here.
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Schala

Quote from: lady amarant on January 29, 2008, 03:43:16 PM
We've all been there. Some of us may have been stopped by religious programming, others by the thought of what it would do to the people we love, some by fear of death more than fear of life, some because they were just too stubborn to quit.

We all get those times when it all just gets too much. Not every suicide rant is real, for sure. But we all know what it is we are dealing with, we all know how painful it can be to lose the people we love over it, to face an uncertain future, to be completely out of place just existing. Sometimes people just need a release, and we should respect that and help each other when we need that rather than get all hissy about it, one way or another. Some of us are lucky and we don't lose much in return for successful transition and acceptance. Some of us lose everything and come away with virtually nothing for it. For some of us the only place we can come to for support is here.

Quoteothers by the thought of what it would do to the people we love

This is what stopped me really. My mother wouldn't have been able to take it. I'm also stubborn, but that plays both ways, I'm also stubbornly not afraid of death. I feel much better now. It feels like so long ago, and it was just 2 years.
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TheBattler

Wow,

I am always the saddest when think about suicide. It slips into my mind now and then for example last Wednesday at swimming when I thought 'Maybe I should not take HRT, stay male and if that does not work I will kill myself  :'( '. Yeap thats is what cause all my problems last week. Beside writing it here I have only told one other person and I feel ashamed when these feelins just pop into my head.

It is important that we discuss these issues here - for many people they do not know they had depression until the reality of them being suicidal hits them. We need to be able to discuss these feelings to truly get the help we need. I was lucky in a way as I already new my doctor and cousellor before I needed them. Other may not be so lucky.

Alice
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joannatsf

I was there 6 years ago.  I tried to overdose on heroin many times but never quite did enough.  After I was high I didn't feel like killing myself anymore.  I moved on to more effective means and was 5150d twice.  The last time I was saved by British television.  I tried doing the gas thing which always worked on Crackers and other shows but didn't work on US stoves as they have a safety mechanism that cuts off the gas if the pilot is out.  After that I called the cops on myself and began the long road of recovery from drug addiction, major depressive disorder and end-stage liver disease.

I've had tremendous success but I can see now that I've suffered episodic depression since adolescence.  I don't consider myself cured either.  It's a chronic condition that I need to watch as carefully as I do my liver disease.  Therapy and anti-depressants have turned my life around.  If you're feeling suicidal seek professional help.  There's no need to suffer.
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Diane

Since i believe in no god , suicide is not a sin . Audrey if it bothers you so much when someone talks about suicide, YOU can always put that person on ignore. You can ALSO not READ that post. Give it a try it really does work.
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tekla

Perhaps, and I do not mean to speak for Audrey her, she does well enough on her own, that what she was trying to say (OK, I'm speaking for her) is that such constant messages are not sending the best idea forward.  And what I was trying to say, what I did say, was that if that was what you thought, what you are thinking, please, please seek real help, not us.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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deviousxen

I had a moment once that wasn't necessarily suicidal, but its the kind of thing everyone would interpret it as.

I did the typical cough syrup OD of the teens in this area, and part of me knew it was a bad idea, the other part thought it didn't "know" what it did. I basically had the idea that life would take me where I needed to go. I downed 3 bottles of Zicam nose spray and downed it with 4 Red Bulls. My heart went nuts, and I'd either be knocked out or waking up and trying to do a certain task (going to use the restroom I think). My brain started believing that my body was in fact dead, and that I was stuck in "purgatory" or what humans thought of it as. I had a disc scratch in reality, and I'd repeat the same task over and over and over again, until eventually, the mes getting up from the couch to go to the restroom overlapped each other. I finally screamed, and then the next me did the same, and et cetera et cetera. I felt myself floating up to my body, and woke up in a hospital bed. I felt like I was 3 feet tall towards the end of the trip. I never told my parents what I was thinking when I downed those bottles, ever. I don't really recall telling anyone. It severely changed my perspective on reality, and for a couple of days it "reconnected" me, and then it got worse. I've been floating on my own will ever since then, and continually being disconnected. I'm not suicidal, but I am most certainly miserable and feel like a lot isn't right inside my head.

I really do think all suicide posts should be taken seriously. It doesn't matter how much of an attention whore they are if they are the type to do so, the point is, is that I agree, It cannot be risked. When no one else is around to support someone in that state and snap them out of it (if thats indeed what is required), it pretty much seals their fate if they have no willpower left.
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Rachael

Quote from: Diane on January 29, 2008, 06:41:46 PM
Since i believe in no god , suicide is not a sin . Audrey if it bothers you so much when someone talks about suicide, YOU can always put that person on ignore. You can ALSO not READ that post. Give it a try it really does work.
sin or no sin, its a serious thing to claim your going to do... attention seaking, and imature.... ESPEICIALLY when you dont do it.


recently 7 children committed suicide in this one town in the uk.... after talking about it on the internet. (over a year)
people love the attention it afords them, and also, reading about suicide can drive others to it!

Its playing with emotions, if you really have a need to talk, TALK... dont state your going to die and bugger off......

are you just that nice that your letting everyone know your going to die, and not to pm you anymore?

heck, there was a post recently that was all 'osh i lost lots o stuff, i r gonna go top myself naw' and continued to debate in the topic never raising suicide again.
its melodramatic, unnecesery, and if you want to get peoples attention, or show how depressed you are, say, dont anounce that you may go kill yourself cos you're SO depressed mang...

Diane: god or no god, he exists for others, and last time i checked, you werent the one with a problem.
R
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tinkerbell

I concur with Chris and Diane.  No one has to read a post if they are not interested in the subject of such thread.  Also...let's not forget that the main objective of this site is support and people are free to express whatever it is that is bothering them.

Nevertheless, I also agree with Susan on the fact that suicide is not something to play around with.  We have had several instances in the past when some people created so much chaos in an effort to just get the attention.  Needless to say, this type of behavior is unacceptable and we have ways to find out who is being honest or just playing with the emotions of others.

tink :icon_chick:

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lady amarant

Quote from: Tink on January 29, 2008, 10:43:12 PM
Needless to say, this type of behavior is unacceptable and we have ways to find out who is being honest or just playing with the emotions of others.

... Ve hav veys of making you talk, ya?  Mwahahahahaha!!!

;)
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Rachael

damn it i was about to say that! :D
tink = helga from alo alo? :P
R >:D
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cindybc

Ya hi Rachael, Ya I tried the pill thing to when I was 25 years old. The pills were little blue pills, Valium, I took half a bottle of them then just laid on the bed and waited, "Oh my!'' I went on the wildest trip ever in my life and never left my bed. I found myself grinning a lot at the ceiling for the rest of the night while still under the influence of the Valium.

Ya I was pretty lost after I reached the age of 25, late bloomer you know. I didn't even have a beard  at the time. If I could have been able to grow a full beard, I could have went into any bar without getting carded. Well through out my teens on up to twenty five my appearances were very much that like a girl's and quite often got called miss, specially by those who didn't know me and I still stubbornly refused to cut my long hair.

Puberty at age twenty five is not good, for that mater it was an awful experience, much like what some of the girls here have already shared with others on other threads. Actually it turned out to be quite a horrid experience, even though I didn't know what the word transsexual was, I had never heard of it before. But there was still this GID playing its merry old tune on me, it felt much like an obsession or being possessed.

It certainly didn't get better through the years, until I stopped trying to kill myself with alcohol. After putting the cork back on the bottle I finally discovered there was light at the end of the tunnel after all, and it weren't no train. So yes, the thought of suicide was never very far from my thoughts during those years. Has anyone here ever experienced deep depression? It feels like a lead soccer ball in the the stomach and your entire body feels like it's petrified with fear

Hey!!! Even though I had left the church and religious teachings behind for a good many years, the thought "what if there is a hell?" These thoughts rang through my conscious mind like runaway fire alarms. Well, just let me say this, I decided I just wasn't in to terrible of a hurry to find out if there really was a Hell.

Cindy
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lady amarant

Quote from: Rachael on January 29, 2008, 11:35:04 PM
damn it i was about to say that! :D
tink = helga from alo alo? :P
R >:D

Great minds think alike...

Or fools seldom differ. Never can decide which one applies to me.  ;D

Only ever saw one episode of Alo Alo, back home in South Africa. Terrible that I'm not partking of the rich English culture while I'm over here, isn't it?

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Luc

I'm feeling a little targeted, being one who suffers from the suicide threat syndrome, but I'm sorry... that was how I felt at the time, and fortunately, I got the response I needed. I had attempted to slit my wrists the night before, I had taken too many pills once or twice thereabouts, and you know what kept me from going over the edge?

Nero. Thank you, my friend, for never criticising me, but simply being there. I needed someone to talk to, and I found someone. I'm sorry if I caused anyone any grief because my post brought up bad feelings... I was desperate. Wait... I'm not sorry. And I'm no horrible sinner for considering a rightful end to my life when I felt there was no other way to go. I am a Christian, I believe full well in Jesus and the salvation he brings, and you know what? I sin. Everyone sins. Let the one who has never sinned cast the first stone.

Sebastien Dean
"If you want to criticize my methods, fine. But you can keep your snide remarks to yourself, and while you're at it, stop criticizing my methods!"

Check out my blog at http://hormonaldivide.blogspot.com
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cindybc

Hi Bas, GID is quite insidious and it is relentless, I believe it could make even the most strongest of spiritual or religious person, to kneel before it and cry like baby. I don't think it's a sin either. It is more like an instinct. It resides within the mind.

Cindy
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