Quote from: warlockmaker on June 02, 2016, 11:52:14 PM
It's ok for those who want RLE but to force it on a person, of age, to do RLE,  is cruel and takes away our rights as human beings.

I also feel that forcing a person who feels uncomfortable in dressing up as a female when they feel they are not physically ready in appearance is barbaric.

Look at me today...I'm a happy female , I could not image the ridicule I would have received dressed up as a female when I looked and felt physically as a man.

I agree. But I also know that everybody has a different place they start from, a different route along the way, different intended results. But ultimately, the results of our efforts may or may nor equate with our earlier dreams or imaginings..

I put off RLE because I was trying to appease the then love of my life. But HRT had changed me so much as I tarried over a year, that I was being gendered female without electro while still in boy clothes. So, RLE, though technically not needed, cuz I am xx intersex, was really just the first year of doing that which was already happening, but in female attire and makeup and with self-permission to behave in a feminine fashion. Had I tried it before HRT had made it moot, it would have caused me great distress, I am quite sure. So. yeah, I see where you are coming from...

I am a huge fan of self-determination, but I always knew I was a girl. Others that are less sure of their gender-center, may very well need a time to face life in the other role to gain a firmer understanding of what they should prioritize. I believe that the SOC 7.0 is a very well-concieved, well-intentioned document, and now that 'informed consent' is so widely practiced, there is a better balance in the field.

Many have lesser pronounce gender longings than you and I. RLE is a way to help these people avoid a mistake of over-zealousness. The pressure to transition is intense in the trans community. It is easy to imagine somebody being swept up by it without understanding themselves well enough to have clarity or certainty, especially when very young. As older transitioners, we have the advantage of a long history of distress pre-anything.

I am glad you did it your way, and it went as planned. Congratulations on a job well done!

Missy

Although I can see the point and purpose of RLE, part of me thinks that insisting on it prior to starting medication or any other type of transitionary work on the body is like sending a recruit to the front line in order to train as a soldier.

Thailand is a pretty easy place in which to transition, although less so I found amongst the beer-swilling Aussie types who prop up the beach bars down south.

I was challenged by my GIC not to live in Thailand. They suggested to me that it's a cop out in my case and that I needed to square up my transition in my homeland amongst my friends, family and work. It was a surprising message to hear from them but I think I did need to take it on board. Having said that, I love Thailand and apart from the heat in March and April, could easily live in Bangkok.

If I didn't have certain obligations I'd be transitioning in Thailand right now.

Quote from: Rachel Richenda on January 27, 2017, 12:52:18 PM
Although I can see the point and purpose of RLE, part of me thinks that insisting on it prior to starting medication or any other type of transitionary work on the body is like sending a recruit to the front line in order to train as a soldier.

Rachel,

Is there actually a country where one has to do RLE pre-HRT?

I have never heard of this, but maybe I am just ill-informed...

And, where on earth do gender therapists insist on RLE without "any other type of transitionary work"??

Gender therapy IS a kind of transitionary work, as is work on voice, demeanor, clothing, etc..

That sounds like malpractice by definition.

Is it possible I am misreading your statements?

Missy

Quote from: MissGendered on January 27, 2017, 01:58:49 PM
Is there actually a country where one has to do RLE pre-HRT?

There's been changes recently so not sure what's current, but the UK and a lot of Europe.

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 27, 2017, 02:03:32 PM
There's been changes recently so not sure what's current, but the UK and a lot of Europe.

That would definitely suck. Hopefully such things have changed, I would have been miserable going that route, for sure, omg!!

Quote from: MissGendered on January 27, 2017, 01:58:49 PM
Rachel,

Is there actually a country where one has to do RLE pre-HRT?

Is it possible I am misreading your comments

Missy

Hi - it's a requirement in the UK that you demonstrate RLE. HRT is only offered after 3 consultations. That can mean 12-24 months later.

best,

Rachel
x

Quote from: Rachel Richenda on January 27, 2017, 03:41:23 PM
Hi - it's a requirement in the UK that you demonstrate RLE. HRT is only offered after 3 consultations. That can mean 12-24 months later.

best,

Rachel
x

Really? That's not what I read in the most recent NHS treatment guidelines..

Quote from: kelly_aus on January 27, 2017, 04:25:30 PM
Really? That's not what I read in the most recent NHS treatment guidelines..

My impression is that it changed recently, but some doctors still ask for it. Not really sure since I don't live there.

Having recently been through this, the guidelines are not yet policy: or certainly haven't been for me through 2016. I wasn't prescribed meds until last autumn, nearly a year after my first consultation and two years from RLE.

Hi Rachael, You know how I feel about RLE, I'm utterly  schocked that you have to do RLE before NHS offers HRT. Its barbaric. Forcing a person to do RLE after statting HRT is bad enough but before is just plain cruel.

I agree my lovely Bobbie. It's awful.

There are still a lot of things about transitioning in the UK that are draconian: RLE is one, acquiring gender recognition through a 'panel' who examine your credentials is another. There is also huge prejudice still here.

Living in Thailand having transitioned is soooooooo much easier.

May I play devils advocate for a sec?
Following a few sessions of intense therapy, I started RLE. After a few months my therapist recommended HRT. At the time I was 43, low dose E to wart and spiro. The impact in that first year was minimal at best.
So I guess I'm asking, does it matter much if one is on HRT immediately?
I know my therapist, she said many people would see her wanting hormones right away thinking someone it was a magical transformation via meds. She wanted, or hoped that if you can live RLE in today's world for a few months, then it showed how serious you were.

Again, just playing devils advocate.

Quote from: Rachel Richenda on January 27, 2017, 03:41:23 PM
Hi - it's a requirement in the UK that you demonstrate RLE. HRT is only offered after 3 consultations. That can mean 12-24 months later.

As for Spain, my psychologist asked me to bring a friend of mine on the next visit. I believe my friend is going to be asked about the extent of my RLE. Been seeing the psycho for 7 months now (3 visits), and no HRT yet. So while the guidelines may say that RLE is not a requirement, my real life experience seems to indicate that you need RLE in order to get hormones.

I'm going to echo Nina, I strive first and always to be a healthy human being and for me my most healthy place is feminine. Masculine gender roles never felt comfortable and while it's impractical for me to physically pass as female, I've been moving toward "passing" emotionally and socially for nearly two decades. For the purposes of RLE and probably for the rest of my life ill be presenting as non-binary.

That time has been important to me. I find it as dysphoric to be around macho behavior and not surprisingly i also find trans women who clearly carry most or all of their male privilege into their experience to be trying.

I'm no more in favor of a gatekeeping RLE than anyone but my year of (formal, documented) RLE has been based on my gender role and experience so passing hasn't been a part of it.

My experience with both the WPATH SOC and with APA DSM is that they are like any other standards document, they always fall behind the state of the art. This is no different from engineering standards that lay out general practice but necessarily can not represent the state of the art.

The policy of my insurance company reads more like WPATH v6 than the current version and wrt RLE, included the troubling language "full year with no returning to prior gender role". However when I talk to them it's clear that they're following v7 and that passing or not is the client's choice.

My primary therapist doesn't specialize in gender and so she consulted with one who does. She, in turn was clear that WPATH is well behind current practice and that RLE consisting of living as non-binary is fine with me. She proceeded to do 3 evaluation sessions with me and wrote a referral letter that was 90% pro-forma. Just yesterday I had a meeting with my therapist and we talked about my decision and how RLE has been important to me as a validation of my very gradual transition process.

I think it's important to remember that RLE is in fact optional in the current WPATH. Of course i have the good fortune to live in an area that is generally accepting of trans people and there are practitioners to choose from.

In the Air Force you are not allowed to have a real life experience near the base unless an exception to policy waiver is granted before the gender marker in the system is changed. In theory you could have the surgery before they gender marker changes, but usually the marker is changed much sooner after legal documents such as passports and social security has been changed. Military transition is such a new venture that they are tweaking the policies as they go.

Bookmarking this thread for the future.

I was able to get a gender letter in Bangkok in 5 minutes.

I honestly don't think Bangkok is the land of gender acceptance one would think, I was chuckled at while I was at the mall by several groups of school kids wearing uniforms and while I was in the street in Sukhumvit and by the Rama Hotel
Since I have a big ego, I thought it was interesting and didn't get mad.

I live in North New Jersey in a mostly Republican County and nobody could give a ->-bleeped-<- how I am dressed.

As a side note the doctor informed me quite a few young Thai gurls get surgery because it makes them more desirable as prostitutes, since women get more money for their services 

Having read through all the many comments which makes it very clear that how one transitions varies greatly from one person to another. Everyone starts from a different place and with different circumstances: age, stature financial, etc.
The original rational for RLE was to determine whether one is actually a good candidate for transition including hrt/grs...or not. There seems to be a tendency to blow off RLE as a hurdle or just some Cis conspiracy to make it hard to transition. Having lurked around these forums for some time before joining l have been left with the distinct impression that there are a lot of people that transition  (including grs) who continue to suffer from gender dysphoria.
So maybe RLE is not such a bad idea. Having said that l managed the avoid the whole Wpath scenario. In "my day", what many here refer to as the Dark Ages, what is now referred to as GD or ->-bleeped-<-,  was seen as a serious psycho-sexual disconnect. Where the patient suffered from an overpowering belief that they were actually born the wrong sex. Since they could not change that belief, they attempted to change the body to conform with that belief. The challenge was to select those patients who might benefit from that approach. Nowadays it seems that anyone who wants it, or thinks they want it, should get it at taxpayers expense.