Quote from: anjaq on March 07, 2017, 07:37:14 AM
Thats interesting. I get the impression this is almost vital to do before the surgery, but when one books FFS with them and is there and gets the scan, the surgery is already planned, so its too late then to look at the scans and make a decision ...
I think my jaw is ok - its probably more fat that is forming "jowls" and making it look less good. I am totally not sure about the chin though - something needs to change there but I am not sure how much of the issue is bone structure or something else - I consider even going to another FT consultation and specificall ask for that - or maybe get that done online if that is making them less trouble
The brow bossing is palpable through the skin, but it is quite subtle. I also do see it when the light is coming from above - I hate that.
I also do that, but in fact I have seen quit ea few women with significant brow bossing. Mostly eastern or southeastern European origin. I think what makes my face different from most though is really not so much the brow bossing but the part they call glabella - it is sticking out too much - making my eyes look deep set and hidden even if there is no real ridges at the brows. But I have seen women with that feature as well, so basically all my facial features do occur in other women as well as they do with me, just apparently they are usually not coming all together or they are compensated by something else. Size of the head, delicateness of the facial bones overall... So its androgynous or slightly masculine features that, if a woman has only one or two of them in an otherwise feminine face, do not hurt or even make it more interesting, but at least in my eyes, I am disturbed to have several of them and I already seem to look big. Its weird how perception works - I am always judged to be at least 1m80 tall. If I tell people I am actually 1m72 they say "no way, then you woul dbe the same size as me, but you ar emuch taller!" - a couple of times I literally made them stand right next to me then, to show that indeed we are the same size. I have no clue why that is, but maybe the face is similar - some clues that are not perceived consciously and are not obectively masculine are perceived subconsciously as off...
Yes, it is vital to do the scan before considering any surgery, but you are wrong that you need to book the surgery with them beforehand to get the scan done.
I merely expressed an interest in FFS and requested a consultation with FT at their Marbella premises. No commitment to undertake actual surgery was requested or given at any time.
My trip was purely a fact-finding mission, to help me make a decision regarding any FFS I might decide to undergo, at a future date.
You could simply do the same as I did, in order to get the detailed scan and consultation.
As I said earlier, all you have to pay for is your flights, and any hotel and meal costs you might incur. No money was paid from me to FT at any time, nor did I feel under obligation to have surgery with FT. There was no pressure sales whatsoever.
I think that, even if you had booked and paid for surgery with them beforehand, as part of the pre-surgery prep, they would take detailed scans if they hadn't already done so, and at that point discuss with you the final actual surgery that they recommended, and even at that point you would be able to change/amend or even cancel things, even if you did end up losing any monies you had paid to reserve your surgery date. Most companies charge late cancellation fees, so I don't see this as an issue, just business.
A detailed scan (not necessarily done at FT) would show up whether you do in fact need bone-related 'chin work' or if it is just fat distribution. In my case it's fat distribution, no bone work is needed or would indeed be beneficial. Both FT and I agreed on this.
As you say, lighting can make or break it where brow bossing is concerned. I have photos where it looks like I have none at all, and others where it looks almost neanderthal-like in prominence. It all depends on the lighting at the time. But, psychologically I know it's there, and that's the issue for me.
I fully believe you if you say you've seen female faces with brow bossing. But I think you've nailed it when you say it's the combination of facial features that creates the overall perception of gender from others. That's why it's a skill to be able to subtly change them to move from masculine-androgynous-feminine.
With my face, my chin, jaw, nose, and cheeks were all quite androgynous to begin with. Genetically, my facial features were not strongly masculine, and I am of slender build and bone structure. Couple this with the effect of 16 years of HRT, plus having SRS 13 years ago, and the changes to my facial features solely through soft tissue changes/fat redistribution have helped in these already androgynous areas. In particular, looking at old photos of my face, my cheekbones and cheek profile have taken on a very feminine appearance. I'm very lucky, I know.
But, add in a prominent Adam's Apple, definite masculine receded hairline shape, and brow bossing, and you've got enough to create some questions and raise suspicions in at least some people. I have certainly never seen a cis-female face with those three features together. Just one of them on their own might not look too out of place, if accompanied by a full suite other of feminine facial features, but as you say, it's all about the subtleties.
I am 1m70cm in height, but I often feel that I tower over most women, or look disproportionately 'bigger' in the 'wrong' areas. I can only attribute this to the fact that I do have broad shoulders, narrow hips (of course, due to my male skeleton), and a relatively larger head than a female of the same height. Add to this the fact that women's shoulders do seem to have more of a slope to them, from the neck down to the arm, whereas my shoulders are much more flat and level, adding to the perception of broadness. There's nothing I can do about this, other than dress with styles that hide or at least don't accentuate my shoulder shape and width.
You can't change change every masculine feature you have to become feminine, but you can hopefully 'do enough' with what you can change, to tip the overall impression away from masculine as much as possible. Of course genetics/build and to some extent race, can help or hinder you in this endeavour.
For me, as far as height perception is concerned, if I'm in a group of just women, then I am taller than most of them, and often receive comments on how tall I am. This will make me feel self-conscious, and if unchecked can snowball into me thinking I've been 'made' and lose all confidence, at which point I'm just drawing attention to myself for all the wrong reasons. At these moments, I try to think of that line from 'The Penguins of Madagascar' film: "Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave". And this usually relaxes me enough so I don't appear overly anxious or uncomfortable.
Conversely, when I'm in a group of just men, I am almost always the shortest or one of the shortest there. And so I'm much more likely to be perceived as being 'small', which fits in comfortably with the female appearance I'm presenting. And I've never received comments from a group of guys about how tall I am, because subjectively, compared to them, I'm not.
TL:DR, hanging around with folks taller than I am makes me feel better about myself
