Hi all,

I'm a guy who has cross dressed about 2/3rds of his life. I'm in a longer-term relationship with a wonderful girl, but she really struggles to accept the crossdressing. She asked me why I do it. I said it's primarily a sexual thrill, but it's also a stress reliever and there's an expression part to it too - I find myself from time to time planning out different outfits I could wear.

Then she asked me a question that I had never asked myself, I didn't have a good answer to, so I thought I'd pose it here: "If your ultimate goal would be to 'pass' in public as a woman, then aren't you pretending one way or the other? Either you identify as male and pretend to be a woman in public, or you identify as female and your 'real' life as a male is pretending.  Why do you want to pretend?"

I get her point - it does seem kind of exhausting going for passably male then passably female and back again. Begs the question, who am I on the inside with such different external presentations going on.

For those further down the road, do you keep them separate like that, or have you integrated the two more closely into a more consistent whole?  What does that look like?

Hi Charlie,

I am Jeanette, I'm am MTF and probably a bit older than you at 64. I identified as just a crossdresser for most of my life for the same reasons you related. For many years that satisfied me. I was able to justify and accept myself as a crossdresser. I went through many guilt purge cycles. I swore off dressing so many times I can't remember. I was married to a woman I really loved with all my heart. I had myself fooled. I am not saying you are fooling yourself. I am just saying that I convinced myself that that was all it was and I accepted it. 
  What your girlfriend asks is a really good question. For me I recently accepted that there was more to my crossdressing and I started my journey toward being the woman I think I have always wanted to be last December by starting HRT and seeking therapy.
  When I look back on my life I can see the signs. Signs like talking my now ex wife out of some of her birth control pills a few times. I can see what I suspect was gender dysphoria playing a part in my marital problems and in my insecurity in my marriage (and elsewhere). I see it's touch in my alcoholism and drug use. I see it playing a part in my divorce and loss of my relationship with my daughter. Now repaired and again in jeopardy with my decision to transition this time I risk 5 grandkids I love.
  Yes, I believe the signs were there. I need more than just crossdressing.

   I hope you can figure out what your answer is. I hope arriving at it is less destructive than mine has been.
  I wish you a happy ending and a long happy life. but only you can come up with the answer for her and yourself.

  Hugs,
    Jeanette

Welcome to Susan's Place. The problem is gender identity isn't always binary and it isn't always fixed in one place. The first question you need to ask is are you comfortable in the male and female identity. If you are, you could be bigender/gender fluid and attempting to remain one gender would leave you comfortable part of the time. If you feel you are a mix of both, a binary presentation could leave you uncomfortable. If you only feel comfortable as one gender, then you are binary. If you look at our WIKI you will see the different identities that may apply to you.

In my case, I figured it out when I was 13 and I was solid female. If it had been possible, I would have willingly transition then. That isn't true for many people on the site as they fall into the non binary where they are some of both genders. Take a look at the link and we will carry on the discussion on this thread.


We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

Hi Charlie86

I am a woman, it took me many years to be able to say that and it have some real meaning for me. I couldn't swap back to a full male presentation even if I wanted to...which I can assure you I don't.  I am not fulltime yet either but that time is rapidly approaching. I cannot continue to flip flop between presentations depending on who I am seeing...it is simply too exhausting and it will end very soon.

I don't know that I will integrate my male side, maybe let him have some peace 

Liz

I am just me.
part male, part female.
And that is how I dress too, sometimes male, sometimes female. Often a mixture.
A lot of it is about fashion, girl clothes are usually more fun.
Part of it is the thrill, sexual and anti-establishment. It is fun to be noticed as different.
My boy side and my girl side play together nicely, holding hands and making soft cooing noises.

I am just me.

Jin said it really well. I'm a facet of a larger essence, if you will. Usually we're more masculine. Usually. Sometimes we are more feminine and think that way, and want to dress that way, and do not want to be confined. I'd love to go out and "pass". I won't.  I used to think I would eventually merge back, maybe forming a kinder gentler man. I don't think that way any more, but I'm OK with that.  I even have a couple of online friends of my own (yes, they know), one of whom recommended this place.. and she was right.

This may be a different definition of "integrate", but here's how I mix my two sides:

As of right now, I have three personas: fully masculine, fully feminine, and in-between. The latter isn't simply a mix of the other two, but a separate look with it's own style, designed to look good during a transition. In the past I've spent the vast majority of my time in the masculine persona, but now that I've come out to my coworkers I plan to spend most of my time in the in-between state and only doing fully feminine on special occasions.

(If your curious, the in-between look involves soft, pastel-colored t-shirts, sweat pants, black kaftans, and other slightly feminized unisex clothing along with earrings, nail polish, long hair, and so on. No wigs or breast forms.)

Quote from: JeanetteLW on March 06, 2017, 11:11:05 PM
Hi Charlie,

I am Jeanette, I'm am MTF and probably a bit older than you at 64. I identified as just a crossdresser for most of my life for the same reasons you related. For many years that satisfied me. I was able to justify and accept myself as a crossdresser. I went through many guilt purge cycles. I swore off dressing so many times I can't remember. I was married to a woman I really loved with all my heart. I had myself fooled. I am not saying you are fooling yourself. I am just saying that I convinced myself that that was all it was and I accepted it. 
  What your girlfriend asks is a really good question. For me I recently accepted that there was more to my crossdressing and I started my journey toward being the woman I think I have always wanted to be last December by starting HRT and seeking therapy.
  When I look back on my life I can see the signs. Signs like talking my now ex wife out of some of her birth control pills a few times. I can see what I suspect was gender dysphoria playing a part in my marital problems and in my insecurity in my marriage (and elsewhere). I see it's touch in my alcoholism and drug use. I see it playing a part in my divorce and loss of my relationship with my daughter. Now repaired and again in jeopardy with my decision to transition this time I risk 5 grandkids I love.
  Yes, I believe the signs were there. I need more than just crossdressing.

   I hope you can figure out what your answer is. I hope arriving at it is less destructive than mine has been.
  I wish you a happy ending and a long happy life. but only you can come up with the answer for her and yourself.

  Hugs,
    Jeanette

I'm sorry to hear that...sounds like you've had a number of struggles in your transition.  As I was reading your post I found myself nodding along, at least the beginning - we had similiar reasons for starting out, and I've also gone thru a number of guilty purges over the years.

Can you tell me more about how you "recently accepted that there was more to my crossdressing"?  That can be a really tough thing to admit with so much societal pressure - what drove you to that realization?

And may I ask whether your dressing led to divorce?  There's a million reasons in any separation, I assume she wasn't supportive of cross dressing...?  Did you do it and she found out a number of times? 

We've basically said we want to marry each other...IF we didn't have a few mammoth-sized issues in our way.  Her biggest issue is the cross dressing, hence trying to figure that out now.  Been too scared to deal with it before.

Quote from: Dena on March 06, 2017, 11:13:10 PM
Welcome to Susan's Place. The problem is gender identity isn't always binary and it isn't always fixed in one place. The first question you need to ask is are you comfortable in the male and female identity. If you are, you could be bigender/gender fluid and attempting to remain one gender would leave you comfortable part of the time. If you feel you are a mix of both, a binary presentation could leave you uncomfortable. If you only feel comfortable as one gender, then you are binary. If you look at our WIKI you will see the different identities that may apply to you.

In my case, I figured it out when I was 13 and I was solid female. If it had been possible, I would have willingly transition then. That isn't true for many people on the site as they fall into the non binary where they are some of both genders. Take a look at the link and we will carry on the discussion on this thread.


We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Things that you should read

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

That's really interesting - I haven't really seriously considered the idea of a gender construct somewhere in the middle before. Think therapy would be a good next step for me.

Quote from: ElizabethK on March 07, 2017, 12:06:47 AM
Hi Charlie86

I am a woman, it took me many years to be able to say that and it have some real meaning for me. I couldn't swap back to a full male presentation even if I wanted to...which I can assure you I don't.  I am not fulltime yet either but that time is rapidly approaching. I cannot continue to flip flop between presentations depending on who I am seeing...it is simply too exhausting and it will end very soon.

I don't know that I will integrate my male side, maybe let him have some peace 

Liz

Glad to hear from someone who also feels the exhaustion of flip-flopping presentations

Quote from: Jin on March 07, 2017, 10:41:58 AM
I am just me.
part male, part female.
And that is how I dress too, sometimes male, sometimes female. Often a mixture.
A lot of it is about fashion, girl clothes are usually more fun.
Part of it is the thrill, sexual and anti-establishment. It is fun to be noticed as different.
My boy side and my girl side play together nicely, holding hands and making soft cooing noises.

I am just me.

curious how you dress in mixture?  i don't often see role models for that in day-to-day life...

Quote from: Tasha.McKenna on March 08, 2017, 06:38:41 AM
This may be a different definition of "integrate", but here's how I mix my two sides:

As of right now, I have three personas: fully masculine, fully feminine, and in-between. The latter isn't simply a mix of the other two, but a separate look with it's own style, designed to look good during a transition. In the past I've spent the vast majority of my time in the masculine persona, but now that I've come out to my coworkers I plan to spend most of my time in the in-between state and only doing fully feminine on special occasions.

(If your curious, the in-between look involves soft, pastel-colored t-shirts, sweat pants, black kaftans, and other slightly feminized unisex clothing along with earrings, nail polish, long hair, and so on. No wigs or breast forms.)

thanks for sharing, and the concrete example of your in-between!

Quote from: FionaM on March 07, 2017, 11:51:47 PM
Jin said it really well. I'm a facet of a larger essence, if you will. Usually we're more masculine. Usually. Sometimes we are more feminine and think that way, and want to dress that way, and do not want to be confined. I'd love to go out and "pass". I won't.  I used to think I would eventually merge back, maybe forming a kinder gentler man. I don't think that way any more, but I'm OK with that.  I even have a couple of online friends of my own (yes, they know), one of whom recommended this place.. and she was right.

thanks for sharing - do you find yourself feeling feminine for the day, or does it wax & want throughout the day?

 Hi again Charlie,

  I'll try to elaborate a bit more in order to answer your questions.

Quote from: charlie86 on March 08, 2017, 10:55:26 PM
Can you tell me more about how you "recently accepted that there was more to my crossdressing"?  That can be a really tough thing to admit with so much societal pressure - what drove you to that realization?

My actual decision to start HRT on the surface was almost spur of the moment. To explain, I was online surfing and came across several sites that talked about transitioning. I found out the meds were available and ordered some. When they arrived I started taking them. I want to emphasize this is not recommended, it is dangerous, and here in the US not legal. Even talking about it is frowned upon here so enough said. It did not take me long to correct my ways and tell my doctor and am now getting them the right way... "Under a DOCTOR"S care"
   I said "on the surface" in retrospect I see many things that indicated I have been dysphoric probably since I first started crossdressing though I did not recognize it. Heck, I didn't even know what it was until recently There were things like preferring to be the passive one during sex with my wife and fantasizing I was the one receiving, same thing during masturbation, crossdressing to the point it even inferred with going to work on time by dressing completely as if I would go to work that way only to be late because I had to change. Preferring the company of women over women. Every Christmas if secretly wished I would get girl's things instead of the boy stuff I did get. You get the idea. I wanted more than just the clothes and makeup, I wanted to be the girl/woman. I envied them and wanted what they had. Always. So my starting HRT was not really a spur of the moment thing I have wanted it for as long as I remember.

Quote from: charlie86 on March 08, 2017, 10:55:26 PM
And may I ask whether your dressing led to divorce?  There's a million reasons in any separation, I assume she wasn't supportive of cross dressing...?  Did you do it and she found out a number of times? 

   For this one Charlie there isn't really an easy answer either.  My wife was aware of my crossdressing shortly after we got married and at best tolerated it for the rest of our marriage. I was married I think 21 years. I loved her with all my heart and to an extent still do. I was deeply hurt by the divorce. By that time we had had so many issues going on that my daughter left home not speaking to me. It was probably the best thing my wife could have done for herself at the time. By that time I was an alcoholic, we were into drugs pretty heavily, I had a history of abuse toward her but I like to think I had been making a lot of progress  in that shameful aspect of my behavior. I lived in fear of losing her the whole time we were married so ingrained was my insecurity. I was never deserving of her love. The more I tried to dominate and control her the more I lost her until she finally had enough of me. Knowing what I think I know now, I think my insecurities and many of my bad behaviors, my crossdressing, alcoholism, and drug use can all be attributed to manifestations of my gender dysphoria. So was crossdressing a cause of my divorce? Yes, yes it was and so was all the other causes.
  I wish it didn't happen at all, but it did. In the space of a year and a half I was divorced, my daughter hated me, I got layed off from a job I had over 20 years, and if that wasn't enough my Dad died. I was devastated. I came close to pulling the trigger with a shotgun in my mouth. Throughout it all I crossdressed it helped appease the monster within. And I survived.

 

Quote from: charlie86 on March 08, 2017, 10:55:26 PM
We've basically said we want to marry each other...IF we didn't have a few mammoth-sized issues in our way.  Her biggest issue is the cross dressing, hence trying to figure that out now.  Been too scared to deal with it before.

   I wish you and your girlfriend well. My story doesn't have to be your story. It is just part of what I had to go through and my married life suffered for it. That crossdressing as you said is a mammoth  wedge between you two. Unless she can come to an understanding that it is not just a "like' for you not just something you enjoy doing for fun, that it isn't something you can just stop doing anytime you want, then I fear it is probably going to be an insurmountable for you two. It is more than those things even if it is forever just crossdressing  it is not a whim, it is a need, something you have to do if you are anything like me. I could not stop it any more than I could voluntarily stop breathing.

  These may not be the answers you wanted  and they may be more information than you expected but they are my story and I could not answer your questions without telling it.

  hugs,
    Jeanette

Quote from: charlie86 on March 06, 2017, 10:43:40 PM
Hi all,

I'm a guy who has cross dressed about 2/3rds of his life. I'm in a longer-term relationship with a wonderful girl, but she really struggles to accept the crossdressing. She asked me why I do it. I said it's primarily a sexual thrill, but it's also a stress reliever and there's an expression part to it too - I find myself from time to time planning out different outfits I could wear.

Then she asked me a question that I had never asked myself, I didn't have a good answer to, so I thought I'd pose it here: "If your ultimate goal would be to 'pass' in public as a woman, then aren't you pretending one way or the other? Either you identify as male and pretend to be a woman in public, or you identify as female and your 'real' life as a male is pretending.  Why do you want to pretend?"

I get her point - it does seem kind of exhausting going for passably male then passably female and back again. Begs the question, who am I on the inside with such different external presentations going on.

For those further down the road, do you keep them separate like that, or have you integrated the two more closely into a more consistent whole?  What does that look like?

Do you feel more feminine, do you enjoy the company of women far more than the company of men, do men scare you, do you want to talk about things that your freinds would just laugh at. I feel feminine, the only blokey thing I do is follow football to the extent I have a season ticket but then, more and more women are following football. I always felt jealous as a child. My sister's got dresses but I had to wear boys clothes. I thought I'd feel better about myself if I wore women's clothes. However im not wanting to change sex. I have had a few gay experiences but I found it unsatisfactory. The men were real men types. However if I was with a transexual whether post or pre op I would enjoy it as much as with a woman and this is because I wouldn't have to deal with someone who was very male. But, I'm confused most of​ the time. Fortunately my daughter did her Dissertation at Uni on this very subject and is very much fluid in her sex so I'm going to speak to her. I just haven't had the courage before.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

For Charlie;

I dress mixed with something like male jeans and a fem blouse, or traditional male with girly hair or make-up or jewelry, or girl shoes. One of my fav looks is a men's white dress shirt over a colored bra or cami so that it just barely shows through!

As far as if I shift during the day, I usually only dress once per day. I may change in the evening for special events. If I start out full fem, I usually think girly all day. If I start out full dude, I tend to drift around in my outlook throughout the day. On the mixed days, it is anybody's guess what goes through my head, or how my body reacts to other people.

Brilliant. I'm not sure what I want to do. Well I am that's wear women's clothing full time. My feminine side is really strong. But I'll have to look at clothing. I also plan to shave my legs and arms. I did cross dress when I was younger. I was into punk rock so I used to go out in a PVC skirt. Now I think IDE feel more comfortable in leather or just fabric. I'll just have to see.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

I am between men and women. Actually the reality is that most people are like me. Gender dichotomy does not exist in the real world, but people have been educated or have believed that people can be clearly divided into men and women.

I tend to be sometimes aggressive, but mostly mild. I like fashion and beauty. Enjoying outdoor exercise. Physically stronger than my wife, but weaker than most men. But I can run slowly but longer than most men at my age. A lot of attention from people.

All people are different. Some people are skewed toward the female side further than me, and vice versa. Since I started wearing women's clothes, some people gradually treat me differently, but old friends always the same way. I got far more female friends, and some of them admire me.

Above all, my appearance does not matter so much. My family and friends always evaluate and like my personality, career and passion for life.

barbie~~

Quote from: charlie86 on March 08, 2017, 11:08:00 PM
thanks for sharing - do you find yourself feeling feminine for the day, or does it wax & want throughout the day?

(could have sworn I answered this...)

I tend to find myself feeling more feminine at either end of the day - after the day is done, or when I wake up. Also if I have a long chat with one of my (not his) friends.

..but sometimes often during the day I toss in my 2 cents ....

My girlfriend found out not long ago about my desire to transition, but she already knew I liked wearing skirts. She has started to be more supportive, but not much help because she is tomboyish and lacks anything to help with expanding my female side.

Typically around the house I mix and match male/female clothing because my wardrobe is so limited.

As far as my mannerisms go, Fiona sounds a lot like me. It changes throughout the day, and can even span days. Some days I feel more feminine, and very little masculine... Other days its the opposite, and some days it goes back and forth.