Hello everyone,

I started a topic called Denial the other day. I got great feedback and I really appreciate it. I'm a wife of a newly discovered Trans woman. I found out in late January so it's pretty new to me. At the moment my husband doesn't want to talk about this anymore (he says he wants to put it back in the closet where it belongs....). I know he won't be able to do that for long and I want to be here for him when stops denying the woman inside. So I come to you for questions and experiences so I can be as prepared as much as I can. My question is... I have talked to a few wives like myself that their spouse actually changed their sexual orientation once they went on HRT and began to present more female. Now my husband says he is not attracted to men (but so did some of the others in the beginning) but I'm worried that could happen as he has asked to begin experimenting with anal as an attempt to feel penetrated as a woman would during sex. That worries me a lot... He is at the moment fully male (no transitioning has begun) and only dresses on occasion in the house but he doesn't do it for long. Also... is there ever a time where dressing doesn't or won't get him sexually turned on (disconnecting the sexual response from just feeling comfortable in the clothes)? One more thing... how long will the "purging and ignoring his feminine side" last?

I appreciate your answers.

I haven't started HRT or even bought any clothes really, but I've internally fully accepted being trans now. At this time I no longer have any sexual response to feeling, or thinking about being feminine, the clothes are just clothes now.

The blanket response to the sexual orientation question is that sexual orientation does not change. But the reality is that's up to the individual, but the phrase is always correct. If he likes women now, and likes men after, he was straight before, and he's straight after. If he likes women before and after, then he still likes women. Get it?

For what it's worth, I'm now full time (please blow trumpets!)

Before I started, I was only interested in women.  Now I'm still only interested in women.

Most of the trans women I know are "trans lesbians" like me, to the extent I know of their orientation -- many are in long-term relationships with women.  I don't actually know any who are in relationships with men, although one I know was bi before and is bi now, but is still married to the woman she married before she knew she was trans.

Most of the trans men I know who have said anything about their orientation are gay -- i.e., interested in men, not women.

On a lighter note, a trans women I know who has just recovered from her SRS says she's now "intrigued by penises" -- but not by men.  I suppose once you've got your nice new vagina, you can't help thinking about road testing it. 

I think it's more common for people to go from being straight to being bi than for people to entirely switch who they're attracted to.

Quote from: Daniellekai on March 10, 2017, 02:24:22 PM
If he likes women now, and likes men after, he was straight before, and he's straight after. If he likes women before and after, then he still likes women.

Well, that's how the terminology goes, I suppose.  Although I don't know what you'd say about someone who transitions to genderfluid or genderqueer.

Anyway, I'd say that if an M2F started out liking women and ended up liking men, they'd changed their orientation, because they've changed the kind of people they're interested in.

The terms "androphilic" and "gynophilic" were coined to avoid this kind of confusion.

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 10, 2017, 12:19:51 PMNow my husband says he is not attracted to men (but so did some of the others in the beginning) but I'm worried that could happen

It can happen.  It hasn't happened to me yet and I suspect it won't (YMMV).  But even if it does, I know I am not going to act on it.  By sticking with me through this, my wife has shown me a degree of love, loyalty, support and committment that have been nothing short of heroic.  The least I can do in return is to remain faithful to her.

Quoteis there ever a time where dressing doesn't or won't get him sexually turned on (disconnecting the sexual response from just feeling comfortable in the clothes)?

If his cross-dressing is more than a fetish, then probably yes.  When I started cross-dressing, certainly there was a sexual component to it.  But I quickly realized that there was more to it than that.  As soon as the thrill of secrecy was lifted, it lost all its sexiness.  Now, it is no longer cross-dressing.  (Wearing my male clothes is my cross-dressing now.)  It is just me wearing nice clothes and wanting to look pretty.

Quote
One more thing... how long will the "purging and ignoring his feminine side" last?

It will last as long as he feels ashamed of himself and unwilling to face a transition.  For me, it lasted decades. 

Kudos to you for being supportive and educating yourself about the subject.  It is all you can do until he is ready.

There is no easy answer to your questions. Everyone is different.

I can give you a quick summary of myself, if anecdotal data is what you'd like:
Closet cross dresser from about the onset of puberty until about 2 years ago. Mostly borrowed girl friends clothes when they weren't around.
Lots of denial and purging throughout my life, but I was never caught dressing or told anyone.
Divorced about 4 years, with a daughter who spends half of her time with me.
Living (partly) by myself just a few years ago, I started buying my own clothes, after the divorce.
I turned 40 and something "clicked" in my brain. I had pretty clothes but no where to wear them...
Got online to look for "cross-dresser" events and didn't take long before I found one 2 hours away.
I went to my first GNO and no one would believe me that it was my first time "out"... ever.
It was one of the greatest experiences of my life and that night Lexi was born.
It wasn't long after that I realized how much I dislike being a guy... pretending for so long... finally realizing that I am transgender.
Started going to more events and making lots of TG friends.
Last winter came and it was a serious personal struggle. Realizing that I'm transgender and that I could never go back to a life of pretending.
By the end of Spring, Lexi won the argument and I started transitioning with Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) in the summer.
Here I am about 7 months later and my only regret is that I didn't figure it out sooner. Wish transition was an option for me when I was younger.

As for Sexual Orientation:
I spent my first 40 years as a straight guy... all my experiences were with women. But I've always had fantasies about not limiting myself to such a narrow end of the sexual spectrum.
I consider myself Pansexual. I find that I'm attracted to the person, not what happens to be between their legs.
After coming out as trans less than 2 years ago, I finally had sexual experiences with men and trans-women alike.
I don't mind telling people about my experiences because now I really know what I like and dislike. How do you know you don't like green eggs and ham if you've never tried it?

At this moment, I'm still heavily attracted to women and cis-women are at the top of the list. Guys and their penis controlled minds are such a turnoff for me. But I still have the occasional fleeting fantasy when I meet a certain guy that I feel myself attracted to. I don't have control of it, it just hits me.

I have a cis-girlfriend that I met after coming out and she's only ever known me as Lexi. She has the same concerns as you... Asks me, "What happens when you want a man?"
I just tell her... "I'm not interested in guys. I've been with guys. Just not what I'm looking for right now"

I'd guess you're husband has some attraction to men. He might not want to admit it, or might be in complete denial to himself. It's quite natural. I don't believe that anyone is 100% straight, and there is lots of scientific evidence to back that up.
The sexual arousal associated with "dressing" usually dissipates after it becomes more routine. Oh, and taking female hormones will kill that quick too! 

Lucky for me, I didn't have a relationship / marriage to worry about when I finally came out. Hats off to the couples that find a way to make it work.

The long and short of it: Everyone is different, but it's a journey and everyone moves at their own pace.

Interesting topic for sure. For me, even with the changes I have made, I still can't get excited about some hairy burly man. Women are still exciting to me. Which means what .. I'm a lesbian? I have read that long term HRT can result in a sexual preference change for some people. Everyone is different, so, I draw no conclusions about that. That said, the only penises I desire seem to be attached to otherwise physically appearing females. The female aspects of my body excite me. So, there you go, I guess I'm in that zone where I'm still attracted to female attributes, and if someone appears physically female but happens to have a penis, I'm way cool with that. So, my dating options appear limited. Just more confusion. But, I don't care. I feel good about who I am and where I am going. If HRT changes things so be it. It really does not matter to me. My brain and body are happy, mates will come, or not, I'm not doing this for sexual reasons.

Quote from: Sinclair on March 10, 2017, 09:04:31 PM
Interesting topic for sure. For me, even with the changes I have made, I still can't get excited about some hairy burly man. Women are still exciting to me. Which means what .. I'm a lesbian? I have read that long term HRT can result in a sexual preference change for some people. Everyone is different, so, I draw no conclusions about that. That said, the only penises I desire seem to be attached to otherwise physically appearing females. The female aspects of my body excite me. So, there you go, I guess I'm in that zone where I'm still attracted to female attributes, and if someone appears physically female but happens to have a penis, I'm way cool with that. So, my dating options appear limited. Just more confusion. But, I don't care. I feel good about who I am and where I am going. If HRT changes things so be it. It really does not matter to me. My brain and body are happy, mates will come, or not, I'm not doing this for sexual reasons.

Just to play devil's advocate here, what about a slender but muscular guy who waxes his chest, back, etc.? He doesn't appear feminine, but not burly, hairy, greasy either. Sure they only exist in fantasy novels, but...

As everyone says - everyone is different, so there is no definite pattern that will predict the future. I was always openly bisexual but post transition and hormones, my attraction to men increased and to women it dropped off (but has not gone away entirely). Others never change from whatever they were previous to HRT.

The best thing is open and consistent communications with support. With that she will be more apt to to be honest about any changes.

By the way people who say they are not attracted to men always use the " burly hairy " man analogy or some variation thereof. Not all men are hairy, not all men are burly. Let's not stereotype men. Still, your attraction is yours alone and you should be proud of it.

While sexual orientation can change it doesn't always. I can't see myself with a man personally...I like everything about women, so much so I want be one myself...is my mentality...I very much dislike masculinity period, and have a hard time understanding why any woman is heterosexual...so I am the extreme that way, your husband is likely somewhere in between though...

I lied, simple as that...I said I was not attracted to men...I knew I should be attracted to girls and I was, kind of...but for all the wrong reasons. I learnt I could be with a girl and it was bearable...but in any fantasy I ever had I was the girl and pretty soon I discovered the whole thing was much more tolerable if I stayed in that headspace. Would I tell anyone that...no...they would never understand. So I didn't tell anyone least of all my wife...and partly because I didn't know how to put it in the terms I do now and what it all meant for me.

We have a monogamous relationship and have done so for many years longer than I have been transitioning..

Liz

In my case, full time female now, I liked women so much I decided to become one.  (Insert laugh here)

Guys, yucky; girls yummy.

Hi

My experience on hormones and blockers is that sex becomes less important in your life. I was married when I began transition and my ex could not accept my changing body and hated the way I looked after FFS surgery.

Living alone helped me explore my sexuality. I had always fantasised about making love as a woman with a man, but the reality is that for me safe anal was not enjoyable. I could not satisfy anyone with my shrunken equipment (that I now dislike intensely). However, I am going to have GCS and hope that I can enjoy some kind of sex life in the future. 

I hope things work out for you both in the end.

Love Jools x

HRT, even after two years, has not changed my sexual orientation in any way.  However, I'm not entirely certain now, nor have I ever been, exactly what my sexual orientation really is.  That never really bothered me a whole lot because I found the idea of trying to reconcile being trans with assigning a sexual orientation to be kind of ridiculous.  Do you assign it based solely on the external body?  Or is the mind the driving force?  Depending on who you ask the answer would be quite different.

In my case anyway I think the following is the most important thing.  I have been married now a long time, 34 years.  I would never cheat on my wife for any reason and I don't let those thoughts enter my mind.  Quite beyond the marriage vows, which for me are hugely important, I credit my wife with my still being alive right now.  Around 12 years ago when I was feeling the depths of hopelessness I was seriously considering suicide to the point I had begun rehearsing it with my pistol. Without drawing out the story I felt things had become intolerable and I was left with two choices.  I could kill myself or I could tell my wife I was trans.  Although it was terrifying to me I finally made the second choice, not having any idea what her reaction would be.  She reacted with understanding and I decided to continue living.  I could never betray that.

As for the last question about purging and denial, it will continue until the internal conflict becomes intolerable.  Usually that goes in cycles which over time become shorter and shorter until eventually it can be ignored no longer.  I imagine that it's different for each person depending on their life circumstances but for me I had that suicide crisis when I was 44 and then managed for another ten years until I crashed to rock bottom and began to proactively deal with it with therapy and medically supervised HRT.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

So for years I thought I must be some sort of crossdresser because I wasn't attracted to men in the least.  I really knew nothing. Therapy straightened that out early on.  I realized at the start of Hormones that I was likely a Lesbian and I was fine with that, but I'd never even met one.  Its been years now and I know hundreds of Lesbians and I still am very much attracted to women.  That said, I now have a feel for why straight women are attracted to men; but not enough to go there. I'm hoping to finally get GRS this year and I am a bit curious about what sex might be like with a man but I can't imagine being in a relationship with one.  My relationship with women have so much more depth and love . . . 

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 10, 2017, 12:19:51 PM
Hello everyone,

I started a topic called Denial the other day. I got great feedback and I really appreciate it. I'm a wife of a newly discovered Trans woman. I found out in late January so it's pretty new to me. At the moment my husband doesn't want to talk about this anymore (he says he wants to put it back in the closet where it belongs....). I know he won't be able to do that for long and I want to be here for him when stops denying the woman inside. So I come to you for questions and experiences so I can be as prepared as much as I can. My question is... I have talked to a few wives like myself that their spouse actually changed their sexual orientation once they went on HRT and began to present more female. Now my husband says he is not attracted to men (but so did some of the others in the beginning) but I'm worried that could happen as he has asked to begin experimenting with anal as an attempt to feel penetrated as a woman would during sex. That worries me a lot... He is at the moment fully male (no transitioning has begun) and only dresses on occasion in the house but he doesn't do it for long. Also... is there ever a time where dressing doesn't or won't get him sexually turned on (disconnecting the sexual response from just feeling comfortable in the clothes)? One more thing... how long will the "purging and ignoring his feminine side" last?

I appreciate your answers.

   So much of what you ask cannot be answered for your individual situation. It struck me that your spouse is in the major league denial stage. I lifetime of shame and denial is hard to overcome. I am full time almost 9 months and run into residual bouts of denial. I would expect you will see a process of gradual acceptance since the feelings are impossible to successfully run from (as far as I know.) He/she may be afraid you will be disgusted at seeing the feminine side. My wife accepted me for 30 years but I could not bare to let her see me as Monica. It was only when I got desperate that I was able to break that. Know that it is not something you are doing wrong, but it is a place he/she must reach. The best you can do is be supportive.
   I have a theory about the sexual reaction to clothes. The female side is denied so strongly in transgender woman in our society. There is a sexual component to dressing at first because it is exciting to indulge in the feminine after so much denial. You as a cis woman probably have sexual feelings of being yourself as a sexual human being. The great majority of the time you probably take being female for granted. After the initial time period, trans people, I think, are the same way. I wear women's clothes every day, it isn't sexually stimulating, it is just me being me. At one point early on, it spooked me that it turned me on.       
   I have a hard time figuring out the orientation change possibility. This is something that you could drive yourself crazy with if you let it. There is no way for you to know. Your SO probably won't know for a long time. What I have found out in my journey is how powerful the draw is to be feminine, to be genuinely female. It is strong. I have migrated in my view of men. They used to be a known entity, many times they were something to compare myself to or keep a barrier up against. Now, they are just foreign to me something I no longer understand or relate to. I see them from a distance. I enjoy interacting with them even to the point of flirting. Now combine that with the idea that having sex with a man as a woman is like the ultimate expression of femininity (granted, for some) and it has a draw to it. Not ever being attracted to guys before, I now see it as appealing in a way. Would I ever act on it? I have a wonderful female partner and could never mess that up. Just because I am starting to see the appeal of being with a guy doesn't mean I am any less attracted to woman. Maybe I have expanded to being bisexual at least in theory. I would be a fool to give up the wonderful relationship for a new sexual experience.
   Not sure if this helps. There is no way to tell you what you will see. This is my viewpoint for what it is worth. Good luck and glad you are supportive.
Monica