https://theestablishment.co/yes-trans-women-can-get-period-symptoms-e43a43979e8c#.rjfpiet0r

http://www.onwednesdays.net/trans-girl-periods/

I am a Pre-op Transgender woman almost at 6 months on estrogen.

I have done extensive research into the effects and side effects of hrt for Transgender women. I found something interesting a year or so ago that on hrt a Transgender woman will develop hormone cycles that mimics that of Cis gender women.

I found more information on it several months ago. It showed that after 5 months on estrogen many Transwomen experience period like symptoms every month including cramping.

I wasn't sure if I would get any of those symptoms but last week on Monday night I started having major mood swings, bloating, breast tenderness and cravings that didn't stop until Friday evening. On Thursday night I started having cramps that would not stop in my lower abdomin and kept going until Friday night.

I talked to friends and did a lot of research into period symptoms, the location of period cramps in the body,  the hormonal triggers as well as more information into mtf periods. (I usually forget to write down references and sources so I did my best to find them all).

My cisgendet friends said that all my symptoms match a period perfectly outside of the bleeding and I found in my research that the fat cells are capable of converting the estrogen that we transwomen take to progesterone and that the pituitary can switch from controlling the levels and release of the testosterone too controlling the levels of estrogen and progesterone and can follow a monthly cycle. I would greatly appreciate it if this triggers a discussion in the comments so that we can all learn from each other

I tried to find a Transgender woman who has experienced this before since Tuesday night and I had a hard time finding anything besides articles.
It would be amazing if someone who had experienced this before as well would message me

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

It could also differ depending on how the hormones were taken. Injection and patches maybe, pills I doubt it. Since pills will keep your level stable all month long and not fluctuating like the other method does

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

I'm on the pill. Fat can convert stored estrogen to progesterone

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

This subject has come up before and it seems some MTFs are sensitive to it. There were even remarks that just like CIS women, they were able to synchronize with their wife. There is additional chemistry in the form of control hormones and the synchronization would take place with pheromones. Pheromones are left over from early evolution and they don't play much of a role now but some people seem to still be sensitive to them.

I'm on the pill of estrogen, spiro as my blocker, and bio-progesterone. I have a period each month. My boobs tend to get a bit more tender, bloating, mood swings, cravings, and cramping. For me IT usually goes around 5 - 7 days, but how severe some of the symptoms are varies from month to month. I also don't cycle my hormones either and my hormone levels are all fine. Even when you have a steady dose of hormones, your body is going to regulate it one way or another, which is why transwomen can experience periods. It may be more pronounced if you're on a patch or injection, but it's still likely on the pill. For me sometimes my period cramps aren't super bad, other times they suck and are the worst pain ever. But yes it's a thing, so love it or hate it, (I do both XD) you get the full woman experience.

Thank you!!!

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

So worth it for that week after though, oh my god. Still working on not acting like an idiot during both those weeks. The other two are just meh and I can actually get some work done.

Quote from: mayapilkey on March 22, 2017, 03:34:33 PM
My cisgendet friends said that all my symptoms match a period perfectly outside of the bleeding and I found in my research that the fat cells are capable of converting the estrogen that we transwomen take to progesterone and that the pituitary can switch from controlling the levels and release of the testosterone too controlling the levels of estrogen and progesterone and can follow a monthly cycle. I would greatly appreciate it if this triggers a discussion in the comments so that we can all learn from each other

Unfortunatley, there is NO scientific evidence for this. Sorry, but it's probably nothing more than a placebo effect

Unless you cycle progesterone, that is. Concerning the cramps: for cis-women that's the WOMB contracting. You don't have one, so whatever it is, it's not period-related. Perhaps it's your belly muscles or whatever, but those aren't estrogen/progesterone sensitive (as in: no receptors). That brings us down to the sad truth: it's a placebo effect.

Now for the good part: the placebo effect can make one hell of a difference in people's lives. Enjoy it!

As for my own personal experience; I'm pre-op, but have been on HRT for 16 monts. Estrogen-gel (twice per day) and  Androcur each evening. No period-related symptoms. Ever. One note: androcur is an incredibly potent anti-androgen which works by inhibiting the pituary's function. I plan on switching to a cycle of bio-progesterone after SRS, so I guess my periods will come too

Started getting this pretty much after month 2 on pills. My wife keeps making fun of me eating Ranch Dressing with a table spoon and complaining about bloating and cramps. We both have to laugh about it quite a bit, but I can't help it. Getting better though, eating a few carrots with Ranch dressing now.

I have to admit, this is something I did not expect to happen. It does however make perfect sense. I am on Progesterone 14 days each month and it pretty much starts two days after I take the last Progesterone. Matches a cis female cycle. Progesterone drops, period starts.

What is even more interesting is that I am also starting to notice changes mid cycle, pretty much during the ovulation time.

Given my family history and seeing my sister, it was to be expected that I will be a bit more affected by it.

To a great deal I am happy about it since it shows my body is finally getting aligned to my mind :-)

I don't tend to discredit people's claims as placebo effect because the details of too many bodily processes are unknown. Much of response is due to the brain and pheromones. We do know that there's a sequencing process that synchronizes women's periods. Evolutionary biologists think that this helped bond hunter-gatherers. Women with hysterectomies still cycle as do women with no ovaries if they live with cycling women. Why wouldn't we?

Yes, the cramps seem unlikely and, of course, we don't bleed.

Quote from: LiliFee on March 23, 2017, 07:17:14 AM
Unfortunatley, there is NO scientific evidence for this. Sorry, but it's probably nothing more than a placebo effect

Unless you cycle progesterone, that is. Concerning the cramps: for cis-women that's the WOMB contracting. You don't have one, so whatever it is, it's not period-related. Perhaps it's your belly muscles or whatever, but those aren't estrogen/progesterone sensitive (as in: no receptors). That brings us down to the sad truth: it's a placebo effect.

Now for the good part: the placebo effect can make one hell of a difference in people's lives. Enjoy it!

As for my own personal experience; I'm pre-op, but have been on HRT for 16 monts. Estrogen-gel (twice per day) and  Androcur each evening. No period-related symptoms. Ever. One note: androcur is an incredibly potent anti-androgen which works by inhibiting the pituary's function. I plan on switching to a cycle of bio-progesterone after SRS, so I guess my periods will come too

Thank you for your opinion. I'm on spironolactone. My doctor said that it shouldn't effect my pituitary gland instead binds to testosterone to prevent it's use. My pituitary gland should be still functional. This could be a placebo or my pituitary gland having an effect

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

Quote from: mayapilkey on March 23, 2017, 09:19:14 AM
Thank you for your opinion. I'm on spironolactone. My doctor said that it shouldn't effect my pituitary gland instead binds to testosterone to prevent it's use. My pituitary gland should be still functional. This could be a placebo or my pituitary gland having an effect

Sent from my SM-G903W using Tapatalk

Well... no. Spironolactone binds to the androgen RECEPTOR. That means your body still produces some testosterone, but it has nowhere to go. Hormones and their receptors function like a key and lock principle, in your case the spiro occupies the locks for the testosterone, thus preventing testosterone from having an effect in your body. Furthermore, it somewhat inhibits your testes from producing testosterone, thus simultaneously lowering serum testosterone levels.

Your pituary releases FSH and LH, two regulating hormones that influence your testes to produce testosterone. They do not influence anything else. Your testes do not produce estradiol, nor do they produce progesterone. Estradiol is produced by the adrenal glands in small quantities, and by a process called aromatase in even smaller amounts. Progesterone is also produced by your adrenal glands, but in small quantities. Furthermore, it can be created by adipose tissue (fat), but thats's in negligible amounts.

In effect, there is no way your body has any significant effect on the production of steriod (sex) hormones. For that, you would need to have female gonads, ovaries. Since you don't have those, there is nothing your pituary CAN regulate.

I'm sorry dear, but it's all a placebo. You can start cycling biological progesterone capsules though, 10 days in the month. This WILL give you clear period symptoms, but even then the cramps will be purely a placebo. There is nothing in medical literature to suggest otherwise.

Scientific studies have shown males already operate on a 23 day cycle as opposed to 28 for females. (Just as men also go through andropause, male menopause.) Its not much of a stretch of the imagination to assume it could get drawn out the extra 5 days and or appear more dramatic.

Quote from: Dee Marshall on March 23, 2017, 08:55:15 AM
I don't tend to discredit people's claims as placebo effect because the details of too many bodily processes are unknown. Much of response is due to the brain and pheromones. We do know that there's a sequencing process that synchronizes women's periods. Evolutionary biologists think that this helped bond hunter-gatherers. Women with hysterectomies still cycle as do women with no ovaries if they live with cycling women. Why wouldn't we?

Again: we don't have ovaries. End of story.

Women who have had hysterectomies + oophorectomies (ovary removals) do NOT cycle. The female cycle fully depends on the effect of FSH and LH on the ovarian follicles. Without ovaries, there's nothing TO regulate.

Furthermore, there is little scientific evidence that periods "sync up".. So yes, please do read about this in medical studies. Educate yourselves. But don't start claiming stuff that's got no scientific basis what-so-ever. It might be nice for us because we want to be cis-women. But we never will be, no matter how much wishful thinking enters into the equation.

Quote from: Angela Drakken on March 23, 2017, 09:42:19 AM
Scientific studies have shown males already operate on a 23 day cycle as opposed to 28 for females. (Just as men also go through andropause, male menopause.) Its not much of a stretch of the imagination to assume it could get drawn out the extra 5 days and or appear more dramatic.

Yup, a stretch of the imagination. Focus on that last word. Imagination.

You know what my point is? This forum will be online for the years to come, and future trans-women will stumble upon opinions and imaginations about things that simply can't be. To equate things to The Donald: These are dangerous alternative facts.

Again: educate yourselves. Find out what's real and what's not, and please do so by searching through medical literature.  The scientific method has a whole lot more merit than our collective imaginations.

Quote from: LiliFee on March 23, 2017, 09:49:50 AM
Yup, a stretch of the imagination. Focus on that last word. Imagination.

You know what my point is? This forum will be online for the years to come, and future trans-women will stumble upon opinions and imaginations about things that simply can't be. To equate things to The Donald: These are dangerous alternative facts.

Again: educate yourselves. Find out what's real and what's not, and please do so by searching through medical literature.  The scientific method has a whole lot more merit than our collective imaginations.

I think you need to read some actual documentation on male horomonal cycles. They are a thing. Its been studied for a long time the world over. Like you said, scientists who know a lot more than you and I or most of us collectively, HAVE the facts on this matter. They're out there if you want to look.

Glib responses do not instantly make one person right and other peoples point of view invalid.

Quote from: Angela Drakken on March 23, 2017, 09:58:03 AM

I think you need to read some actual documentation on male horomonal cycles. They are a thing. Its been studied for a long time the world over. Like you said, scientists who know a lot more than you and I or most of us collectively, HAVE the facts on this matter. They're out there if you want to look.

Glib responses do not instantly make one person right and other peoples point of view invalid.

That's the point... The male hormonal cycle has nothing to do with the female hormonal cycle. A male hormonal cycle depends on the pituary's FSH and LH working to create changes in serum testosterone levels, done by influencing the testes.

A female hormonal cycle also works through the pituary, in effect using the same negative feedback loop that FSH and LH have. But: they effect the ovaries. Here's the thing: ovaries are not testes. They never will be. Gonadal differentiation is absolute. No matter how much estrogen you're gonna pump into your body, your testes will never turn into ovaries.

As transgender people, we have to rely upon surrogate hormones. These hormones can't be regulated by anything else than our own habits. There's nothing else to it.

So youre saying, when male horomone levels make them irritable, moody, and physically uncomfortable, (Yes, it does happen. It's documented. For as many women whose cycle passes without notice atleast as many men have very uncomfortable 'monthlies.' Just as some women are nearly crippled one week out of the month and other men may just be jerks all year round.)  it doesnt mean anything because they have different anatomy? We all have homonal cycles, that can distrupt our normal patterns, mood, DIGESTION, hot flashes, why couldnt this become more pronounced in some more than others with exposure to other horomones if it were already there before? No ones saying people are going to start bleeding. Obviously we all agree thats impossible. But theres a little more to a horomonal cycle than that. To say there isnt is simply incorrect. Standing there repeating oneself with 'It cant! It cant! It cant!' when scienfitically its been proven it CAN isnt helping anyone. People have a horomonal cycle already cis or MtF. No its not reproductive based. No its not 'imagination.' A simple google search comes back with hundreds of hits on a multitude of medical journals to the contrary of your statement. (And yes a few articles of pure drivel from mens health magazines making fun of the simple fact some are more affected by their horomonal cylce than others.)

The moment you start HRT, your male cycle stops. Thats the whole point of it. You end your natural cycle and start an artificial one. Dont confuse the two please

Oh and on male cycles: I fully agree with you on that, it exists and it does make men grumpy from time to time. It's just that the people responding here all started HRT so their male cycles cant be the cause of their symptoms. Artificial cycles also exist, but as long as we don't actively cycle progesterone, no other hormonal fluctuations can occur. Hence: placebo