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People won't stop staring

Started by maksim, March 30, 2017, 10:39:41 PM

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maksim

One thing I didn't mind so much about that year that I lived as female was that no one gave me a second glance when I passed by.
They never questioned me when I was young and living as male either.

It's different now. Every time I go out, people stare and people call me "ma'am" and "miss" so readily, despite my best efforts to look as masculine as possible. I don't want to dress in a hypermasculine way, but I have to in order to pass -- even then it doesn't work.
Puberty has done me dirty. Any ability I had to pass as a young teenager has completely gone away, because to other people, I'm a tomboy or a butch lesbian now.

I know it shouldn't matter to me, and I know confidence is key, but I don't want to be confusing. I want people to see me as the man I am. I don't want them to see me once and then look again because they can't figure it out.
So many people are so happy to be as confusing as they can be with their gender, and part of me is glad that I look masculine enough to make people stare to figure me out, but they always jump to the wrong conclusions. It's just really upsetting.

Again, it shouldn't matter to me because I understand that it's just a natural human reaction to look twice when you don't understand something. We do it when we read, when we see confusing images, and when we just know that something's not right or "normal", I totally get it. So why can't I accept it?

I'm just not happy right now. I have very little enthusiasm anymore, because even as the date for my referral letter draws near, it just seems further and further away every time I leave the house.

I feel like I'll never be seen as a man. Once again, just like when I was 10, it's a distant dream.


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FTMDiaries

Yes, you're at the most difficult stage right now: waiting to get started with your medical transition is definitely the hardest part.

Quote from: maksim on March 30, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
One thing I didn't mind so much about that year that I lived as female was that no one gave me a second glance when I passed by.
They never questioned me when I was young and living as male either.

Your age might have something to do with it. You say you socially transitioned at 14, then detransitioned for a while and are now starting to transition again at 18. Well, a 14-year-old boy doesn't look very different from a 14-year-old girl really (apart from clothes & hair). He isn't yet overtly masculine: he may not yet be growing facial hair; his voice probably hasn't dropped; his bone structure hasn't changed; etc. So yes, when you were 14 you didn't look or sound significantly different from 14-year-old bio boys. So of course people didn't question it. But as you get older, the boys around you have been going through puberty and they now look and sound very different than they did when you first socially transitioned. It's a lot easier to pass as a 14-year-old than as an 18-year-old.

Quote from: maksim on March 30, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
It's different now. Every time I go out, people stare and people call me "ma'am" and "miss" so readily, despite my best efforts to look as masculine as possible. I don't want to dress in a hypermasculine way, but I have to in order to pass -- even then it doesn't work.

Puberty has done me dirty. Any ability I had to pass as a young teenager has completely gone away, because to other people, I'm a tomboy or a butch lesbian now.

Less of a tomboy, more of a butch lesbian in my experience. Someone who looks & sounds biologically female but dresses in a masculine fashion (especially with short hair) is presumed to be a lesbian once you've reached a certain age. I hated this phase of my transition because nothing could be further from the truth: I have zero interest in women.

There's also the age thing: nobody addresses you as "ma'am" when you're 14, but by the time you get to 18 you're a young adult so all the "sir"/'ma'am" stuff starts getting more common. We adults have to put up with these courtesy titles all the time I'm afraid.

Here's the thing: women object very strongly to being referred to as 'sir'. Including (perhaps especially!) many butch lesbians. So if people are in any doubt, they'll address you as "ma'am" simply because they're trying to be respectful and they don't want to offend someone they presume to be a butch lesbian.

It's also possible that you're noticing it more than before, because of the way you're feeling.

Quote from: maksim on March 30, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
I know it shouldn't matter to me, and I know confidence is key, but I don't want to be confusing. I want people to see me as the man I am.

I know, and it's very painful. But trust me: this phase passes once you do. Those of us who are on the FtM side of the spectrum - and especially young guys like yourself - are extremely fortunate in that most of us wind up passing very well indeed. I started my transition at 40 and nobody would ever suspect I was assigned female at birth. We're really lucky in that way... but it does take time to get there. And waiting to get there is torturous.

Quote from: maksim on March 30, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
So many people are so happy to be as confusing as they can be with their gender, and part of me is glad that I look masculine enough to make people stare to figure me out, but they always jump to the wrong conclusions.

In my experience, people do a three-point check when trying to figure out your gender. First they look at your face. If they can't immediately figure out your apparent gender from that, then next they look at your chest. A tell-tale bulge in the mid-chest region is read as female, whereas a flat chest is read as male. But if that's also inconclusive, then finally they look at your groin. A bulge is read as male, and a flat groin is read as female.

So make sure you do as much as you can about all three regions, and people will start gendering you correctly again.

Quote from: maksim on March 30, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
Again, it shouldn't matter to me because I understand that it's just a natural human reaction to look twice when you don't understand something. We do it when we read, when we see confusing images, and when we just know that something's not right or "normal", I totally get it. So why can't I accept it?

Because it's intrusive. They're intruding on your personal space by staring at you. People don't generally pay that much attention to other people's appearances; usually they take a quick overview of the face & body to identify whether the person is a threat or a potential mate, and they move on. But we find ourselves under more scrutiny because of other people's confusion. It's rude of them, and it's intrusive, and sadly there's nothing we can do about it. Unless you have the courage to give them the same stare (but dial it up to 11), or to go up to them & ask if they want your autograph. I've done both, and they're super-effective.  ;D

Quote from: maksim on March 30, 2017, 10:39:41 PM
I'm just not happy right now. I have very little enthusiasm anymore, because even as the date for my referral letter draws near, it just seems further and further away every time I leave the house.

I feel like I'll never be seen as a man. Once again, just like when I was 10, it's a distant dream.

Tbh we all feel this way. It seems impossible, and we feel that nothing will ever change and that we'll always feel this way. But then that referral comes through; and we go on T; and we have top surgery etc.... and all of a sudden everyone spontaneously calls you "sir". People start laughing at your same old jokes instead of just rolling their eyes. Women start flirting with you in ways that have never happened before (that one's hilarious for me, because they're barking up the wrong tree!). And before you know it, everyone suddenly recognises that you are a man... and that 10-year-old's distant dreams have actually become your reality.





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maksim

Thanks for the reply.

It's just been bothering me. I'm working on it, working on holding out until something starts happening.


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Itsdone

Hi.. I assume you are on hormones. If your taking testosterone and your 18 you will change a lot more than you think over time.. I can't imagine you not being read male once your beard comes in and your voice will really get lower..  It just takes time..
I am MTF.. basically completely transitioned living female now.
Good luck, I hope you are in therapy.  I never really understood the pain a FTM would have since I wanted to be female all my life but I do now.
Being seen female is so different that being male.. 
So good luck.. keep your chin up.. bet you will be fine...
And don't forget to live.. Life is so good.. you have your whole life in front of you.. so many good things to look forward to..
DB
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maksim

Quote from: Itsdone on March 31, 2017, 02:43:39 PM
Hi.. I assume you are on hormones. If your taking testosterone and your 18 you will change a lot more than you think over time.. I can't imagine you not being read male once your beard comes in and your voice will really get lower..  It just takes time..
I am MTF.. basically completely transitioned living female now.
Good luck, I hope you are in therapy.  I never really understood the pain a FTM would have since I wanted to be female all my life but I do now.
Being seen female is so different that being male.. 
So good luck.. keep your chin up.. bet you will be fine...
And don't forget to live.. Life is so good.. you have your whole life in front of you.. so many good things to look forward to..
DB
I'm not on hormones yet. Once again, it's a distant dream. It does take time, but I've been waiting 8 years to do this and I just wish I could snap my fingers and change my body overnight. I think we all wish that, lol.
I am in therapy, I'm trying to work through these feelings. It's just difficult after all this time.
Thank you, I won't forget. Things will change one day I'm sure.


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Kylo

If people can't figure out what you are within 2 seconds of seeing you, they will stare in an attempt to. It's just human nature. It's probably not even deliberate on their part. Humans are programmed to see two genders most of the time by their biology, by society.

Look at it another way. If they are staring because they can't just see " a female" it means you are at least on the way to not being seen as female. You can't expect too much without the help of T though, unfortunately. Even if you passed 100% of the time, they'd think female the moment you spoke, probably.

People used to stare at me all the time. Maybe they still do, I don't know. Don't really care. Funny thing was I never tried to fit in before, but never tried "not" to fit in or to look especially masculine - I wasn't trying to do it back then like many FTM do try, because I was really just refusing to think about roles, but they still found me strange and worth staring at. It was very odd because I was not what you'd class as 'butch' in any sense of the word. But holy **** did people still want to look. If I'd not decided to transition or even to try and look masculine at all, or if I'd just been a cis individual with no issues at all, they'd still have stared, and I'd still have had to get to a point where I didn't give a damn.

T will help a great deal. The waiting isn't fun, I know.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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maksim

Thanks Kylo, I'm working on accepting it for now.


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vinni666

I know how you feel dispute short hair deep voice, flat as hell chest and boyish clothes possible I get called a girl, it really depends its more with woman then it is the men calling me a woman or mam or something kind of strange don't know if you get the same?
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maksim

Quote from: vinni666 on April 01, 2017, 01:55:16 AM
I know how you feel dispute short hair deep voice, flat as hell chest and boyish clothes possible I get called a girl, it really depends its more with woman then it is the men calling me a woman or mam or something kind of strange don't know if you get the same?
I think you're right, it is more with women than men. I've found that men just don't talk to me out in public, and when they do they often don't use gendered words.


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vinni666

yeah men often refer to me as mate
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RobynD

When i really girlie it up with the hair styled and makeup i would guess that i still get stares and or double takes something like 20% of the time. It is probably my facial shadow i dunno, or perhaps some mannerisms. My shape is very feminine and i have pretty large breasts. So at present with all of that time to get ready and i am by no means an expert yet, i still get about one in five people that i choose to interface with, not noticing i blend in, or questioning by gender expression. I know it can be frustrating and there are days where i simply don't want to bother that much.

I really don't mind letting people stare sometimes because i feel like i am giving them the opportunity to experience diversity and the future to some extent. Often i smile at them or even wave, usually they seem embarrassed or slightly hostile to that. ( but sometimes not and they start conversations) Oh well. The mis-gender via sir vs ma'am is included in that and i do correct people now.

Just yesterday i had like a cute, very pink graphic t-shirt on with a leather jacket and boyfriend jeans with plain lace up doc martin boots and my hair was back and i only had a bit of eyeliner and some lip gloss on and i was out a lot. I got compliments from several people i know on this presentation (ok one was my boyfriend, but still). I got stares too. I don't know what all the people were thinking, gender fluid?, trans person? feminine guy? masculine girl? or maybe as Kylo says just trying to draw a fast conclusion.


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