AlyssaJ - thinking of you and your wife at this very difficult time and sending you both my hope for love and patience to continue between you both.  It sounds like despite these huge hurdles you have some wonderful foundation and mutual respect as well as love still intact for one another. 

As others have also said, I also see many parallels in your story as mine.  I am not 10 years post-transtion, but I can absolutely vividly remember exactly the point you are now at in my own life.  I was married with two yound children and my wife was trying to be supportive of my decision to transition and yet also stating she did not and would not love me or be attracted to me as a female and that we would have to separate and divorce if I took this path.  She wanted to support me and my parental role, but in making my own choice I also knew I was ending a 10 year loving and to the outside perfect marriage,

It was a devastating and very very tough time for me.  I ended up on anti-depressants and cannot think of a sadder/deeply emotional period in my life before or since.   I can't tell you it is easy, but I can tell you in my case it got better. 

At first it was just getting through day by day.  The pain was often unbearable, but the small voice inside also reminded me that I had to honor myself - for me, for my kids and also for my wife.  Living a life that wasn't true to myself was not only a disservice to me but also to them.  It took a long while and a lot of guilt before I slowly and reluctantly accepted this. 

I chose after a few months to move out.  I started hormones at that point and we worked out co-custody of our daughters.  It was so hard on her and me, but ultimately was the right thing.   Gradually things continued to get better.  Yes there were bumps here and there for sure, but our marriage ended in divorce, and moved into a supportive co-parenting effort.  She did more parenting than me, but I was also juggling transition and work etc too.  Over time we moved to more equal type of custody post GRS.   

10 years later she is remarried to a great guy, I met a wonderful guy and was married 3 years ago.  Looking back I often wonder how I survived but I did, and I think we all have this inherent internal strength and fortitude that our inner self will carry us through and that she deserves the opportunity to live and contribute and be happy. 

I look back know and it feels like a dull bruise and a long time ago.  My ex and I often talk about how hard it was at the time but that it was just the right thing that had to be done.  I still feel guilty but I also feel proud that I made it through and I am truly happy.  As my children have grown older I have explained how things changed and think I set a good example for being true to oneself for them and how to work through difficult times with courage and love.

I wish you many blessings and send you both strength and love.  I know you are going through so much, and I hope the support from friends on here helps.  I also hope your wife is getting help with friends and therapy if she is open to that - its hard for everyone but you know and have expressed this already.

Happy to talk off-line also if you want.  Ive been gone from this forum for a long time but used to come and read for days early on.  Its a wonderful resource and helped me immensely

In kindness,

SarahGemini

Quote from: FTMDiaries on April 06, 2017, 10:18:45 AM
Your wife is breaking her marital vow to stand by you in sickness & in health, so she is at least 50% responsible for what's happening right now.

With respect, I think it is unfair to saddle SOs with the blame for this.  Yes, the marriage vows include the 'in sickness and in health' clause but they also include 'do you take this man/woman to be your husband/wife' and 'I, [birth name] take thee...' or similar so one could equally argue that the SO's vows are void due to falsehoods on the other side.

None of us ask to be like this but everything we do thereafter is a choice; in making those choices we have to accept that there are consequences which, unfortunately, are frequently adverse.  Alyssa has been very candid about the impact that her decision has made on her marriage, her doubts about her decision and the effect it has had on her wife and it is this insight that will help her navigate through the difficult path ahead, hopefully to a point where she and her wife can be close again.

I would like to jump in and say the poster above me is correct. it is unreasonable for the spouse of a transitioning partner to just ''give it up'' in regards to the persona she married.  She, or any S/O married that persona because they liked that shell. They fell in love with that shell. If an S/O doesnt want to stay in a relationship then that isnt their, nor the transitioning partners fault. One person got married to who they thought was the real thing, the other has a very tough birth condition that needs to be corrected. Its hard on both parties. It is unreasonable to force a heterosexual (or homosexual) to swing the other way or make then claim to be bi for that one person. As said, unless they are bi chances are that wont work. There are cases where couples stay together and thats great but one must brace for the other sinareo. We all know that we are born the way we are and thats that. That incudes the S/O. The only time a S/O should be lectured or given the lemon face is if they are being transphobic or dishing undue harshness to the transitioning partner who has A LOT of crap to clean. I do hope you two can make it work tho!!

Hugs-Ashley

I've spent more than 20 yrs in an open marriage to my best friend. That even changes though. Nothing is static. The assurance i can offer is that it does get better. Those early days of transition for me where full of self-doubt and fear but it got better. All we can do is try and be the best person you can be and support your wife as much as you can.

Marriage is also not about sex and i see a lot of posts that seem to me anyways, conflate the importance of physical attraction and sex, particularly in long term relationships. That is never static either and there are plenty of successful marriage where there is no intimacy in the form of sex. Emotional intimacy takes over.

My wife sort of blind sided me recently in saying that she is not sure she wants things to continue as they are (again open marriage, partners and companions). We are physically intimate but not a lot, however she says its not about that all, it is more about where she sees her self in her golden years, the place, the friends, the social circles etc. How can i argue with that logic? She needs to feel connected just like me. I have a pretty strong relationship with a guy that has developed over the last few months and i think even in an open marriage that is making her feel more distant. For a few hours after the discussion, i sort of felt panic and the desire to "make it all better for her", so that is normal.

At any rate, despite the vow "until death do us part" and that is something that everyone should take a hard look at before breaking, a successful marriage does not have to last forever. Things change etc. Change is scary and feels lonely at times. You will not always be alone though and should you split or go the roommate route, you are making yourself a healthier person for the next relationship and that is pretty exciting and positive.

Quote from: aaajjj55 on April 07, 2017, 11:47:44 AM
With respect, I think it is unfair to saddle SOs with the blame for this.  Yes, the marriage vows include the 'in sickness and in health' clause but they also include 'do you take this man/woman to be your husband/wife' and 'I, [birth name] take thee...' or similar so one could equally argue that the SO's vows are void due to falsehoods on the other side.

None of us ask to be like this but everything we do thereafter is a choice; in making those choices we have to accept that there are consequences which, unfortunately, are frequently adverse.  Alyssa has been very candid about the impact that her decision has made on her marriage, her doubts about her decision and the effect it has had on her wife and it is this insight that will help her navigate through the difficult path ahead, hopefully to a point where she and her wife can be close again.

I agree with you. While it is terrible to feel that our loved one is leaving us...I also feel it's not OK to blame them. This is nobody's fault, nor the significant other nor the transgender person's fault. It's just the situation we have to deal with and the transgender person made some decisions (to be happy of course) that understandably had some consequences for the other person as well. You can't expect your partner to stay with you through this when it means being part of an "unconventional" relationship that they never really signed up for with a person they now barely know and they might not be physically attracted to after all the changes. Why should we rob them of the chance to be happy with somebody else who is closer to what they are naturally attracted to? Especially when we are also looking for our happiness. If we have to part ways it will be definitely hurt (I know it'll be hurtful for me when the time comes), but it is what it is. We'll move on, heartbreak has never killed anyone.

I don't really see people blaming spouses but whatever happens you would expect your partner, the person that loves you the most in the world, not to be transphobic and lovingly support you even if you end up breaking up. That is a reasonable interpretation of " in sickness and in health"

As to what you "should" expect from a spouse, that varies wildly by relationship. Nothing about transition has to be a deal breaker or is an automatic voiding of the marriage contract. We sometimes put more importance in physical attraction then it is worth and whose to say what relationships are "non-standard"?

Heartbreak has actually killed a lot of people. Relationship problems are one of the number one causes of depression and suicide.

Hi Alyssa.

This is Nikki P from the other forum .

I think about the potential loss quite a bit.  In my calculus, if i completely transitioned and went full time, i imagine one part of my life would be optimized, but some of other parts that really mean a lot to me would be pretty messed up.  So the way i think about it, i'd be traded some level of misery for likely a greater amount in my world.  Of course it's not a do or die proposition for me, so i can live that way.

But i wonder, being familiar with your story from the other forum, if maybe you could be ok with less than full time?  Maybe low level HRT and a % of time as Alyssa?  Or maybe Alyssa can live with an andro presentation at home and work?  Just throwing some ideas out there, dunno if you can live comfortably like that.

peace,
-n

Nikki,

Thanks for jumping and sharing your thoughts. It's always good to have options to see what fits and what does not.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 05, 2017, 12:48:54 PM
I fought against taking control of my life and finally putting my health before the discomfort of others.  The thought that all that pain and effort would just win me an epitaph "At least he didn't make us uncomfortable." underscored what my denial was doing.

Hey Michelle,

That really struck a chord with me.  Wow, that's what I'm doing.  I'm living my life not to make others uncomfortable.  When you put it that way it really seems like I'm throwing my life away.

Thanks,
Paige

Quote from: Paige on April 07, 2017, 10:53:24 PM
Hey Michelle,

That really struck a chord with me.  Wow, that's what I'm doing.  I'm living my life not to make others uncomfortable.  When you put it that way it really seems like I'm throwing my life away.

Thanks,
Paige

Finally, I reached the point where for once I have to put myself first, take care of my sanity and health, and do this even if it does make others uncomfortable.  Others are free to leave, free to ignore me.  I have to live with myself, and my choice, the only real 'choice' in this whole transgender experience, is to try and address my needs rather than suppress them.

One path leads to life.  I choose that path.