I used to help administer ECT right up until I left Psychiatric Nursing in the late 90's. I was part of the recovery team and the "intervention" team that dealt with the more difficult administrations.

I would not ever let anyone do it to me or anyone that I loved. This is from the perspective of 15 year Registered Psychiatric Nurse who has not only been involved in the administration but also had a family member have it administered to them.

Seek a second opinion, ECT can have some real drastic irreversible side effects which I have seen first hand...ask for the evidence that this is going to fix your depression.... Do not accept anything that is not peer reviewed or widely accepted. Get as second opinion....They don't know how it works but they do know it takes out great chunks of memory and hopefully the personality changes are the ones you want.

ECT is one of the main reason I quit Psychiatric Nursing her in Austrlaia...it is barbaric IMHO.

Liz

PS feel free to PM me

You may want to stop telling doctors you have depression, if you don't actually have depression.  You probably have Gender Dysphoria and it's causing you extreme sadness and an inability to function.  That's not the same thing as depression.  Anti-depressants are not going to do ANYTHING for Gender Dysphoria, and you'll likely experience nothing but side effects if you take anti-depressants without actually having depression.

Also, HRT is important but won't necessarily solve everything.  Try to think of all of the problems of the situation you're in.  Are you lacking support?  Are you lacking a transition plan with goals?  Are you lacking clarity on your identity?  If you are having problems with any of these, then these things need to be addressed rather than relying on medications to solve anything.  Make that clear to the doctors.  If a psychiatrist points out that they're "a medical doctor who prescribes medications", start asking them medical questions instead of talking about your mood.  Having a plan on what you want to discuss before going to the doctor's office can avoid the over-focus of discussing your mood.

I understand that not everyone is "there yet" but you may want to start asking the doctors to refer to you with the correct pronouns, and correct them every time they make a mistake.  This way they'll see you're actually serious.  All of this advice I've just offered is based on things I've actually done and had success with.  You don't need to be afraid of ECT if you simply refuse to allow them to do it.

Maybe this will help further the discussion.  I hope so.

Back in 2002 (on my 50th birthday) I was started on what was to be a 2 week or longer regimen of ECT (3 times per week) in a very well known major east coast hospital.  I had major depression since adolescence, and was taking several meds for it at the time.  My depression had become at that time extremely severe to the point where I was practically catatonic, and so I was admitted to the hospital.

Most of the patients on that unit with psychiatric diagnoses were there for ECT.  Monday, Wednesday, and Friday they would line us up on stretchers in the corridor and roll us one by one into the room where the procedure would take place.  Each of us in turn was anesthetized and the procedure was administered.  We were then rolled into a recovery room and eventually returned to our rooms.  It was almost an assembly-line arrangement.

I gave up on the procedure after one week and refused to take any more treatments.  The side effects for me were pretty incredible.  Very nasty headaches (migraine), nausea, back pain.  Some of my fellow patients would leap out of bed immediately after returning to the unit and ask where breakfast was.  I would remain in my bed all day with my covers pulled up as far as they would go to keep the light out of my eyes.  Some of my fellow patients vouched for how effective it was.  It did me no good whatsoever.  I had memory loss and confusion while I was on the unit, and, while I can't prove this, I think it might be possible that I lost some memory and mental capacity permanently.

Even while depression eased after I was discharged I was never entirely free of it.  Until I began HRT.  Now I watch the sunrise with what I think must be joy in my heart and think "is this what normal people feel like?"  I recently asked the psychiatrist that manages my meds whether it could be possible that my very long history of depression might not be the result of gender dysphoria.  "I wouldn't be a bit surprised" he answered.

It only took me 13 years to find that out.

Quote from: Nancys Girl on April 18, 2017, 12:06:56 PM
...
Even while depression eased after I was discharged I was never entirely free of it.  Until I began HRT.  Now I watch the sunrise with what I think must be joy in my heart and think "is this what normal people feel like?"  I recently asked the psychiatrist that manages my meds whether it could be possible that my very long history of depression might not be the result of gender dysphoria.  "I wouldn't be a bit surprised" he answered.

It only took me 13 years to find that out.

Oh, this is dead on.

I was an effeminate child who had not started puberty at age 15.  (Undescended testicles.  DES exposure in utero...)  I was an A student, but quiet and withdrawn.  I was caught dressing.

I avoided ECT and aversion therapy, in favor of a lighter conversion therapy, testosterone injections to lower the testicles and kick off puberty, and counseling by an authority figure associated with a private elementary school and place of worship.  I became a sullen, angry, antisocial D student.

I'm pretty sure that was when the depression and dysphoria started.  It got worse over the decades, and anxiety was added to the mix.  I'm pretty sure the depression and anxiety were social in origin, driven by the perception that others would reject me if I came out of hiding, and driven by severe gender dysphoria.

Like your experience, mine was that starting HRT was the treatment that made the biggest difference.  I was started on an anti-androgen (spironolactone) and after several weeks I started experiencing periods frequently where I could easily find a state of calmness, where the distracting 'noise' in my mind faded away.  I started estradiol (via patches) a month into HRT, and that improved my mood at once.  About 2 months into HRT, that state of calmness and mental quiet became my new normal.

This made a remarkable change in my mental state, and my outlook on life.  I've still had rough patches, mostly related to the social issues we encounter, around rejection by others, but I AM doing much better than before I started HRT.  It was a life saver in my particular case.

I saw an older documentary a couple of years back that mentioned people who were the first trial patients of ECT in the States, one of them a girl who had her memory totally wiped from a certain period in her life by it - no knowledge of what they did to her, the procedures, and big gaps in her recollections of life from the time. It sounds brutal and imprecise. How do you - or they - even know what they are doing to what part in your brain and what the long term effects will be? The answer is they don't.

Memory Loss is very commons as are personality changes

It is barbaric because they have no idea why it sometimes works or even how it works...its like swatting a fly with a sheet of iron.

It is simply a creating an "epileptic seizure" why you may ask

They found that when Epileptics were leading up to seizures they became quite agitated and depressed in some cases and then after the seizure they seemed better...hence cause an electrical storm in the brain...some people feel better, many, many, don't but that is the total science behind ECT...nothing more than that. ECT mimics (not very well)a seizure. Of more recent times they may have been able to provide more supporting evidence but the root reason for using this treatment remains the same.

I've suffered from major recurrent depression most of my life, and I don't consider most of it to be GD-related.  (At the very least, they finally found an antidepressant that worked for me, and I don't think it would have had that effect if my problems were all rooted in GD.) 

There was a period when nothing was working and my doctors were seriously considering ECT for me.  I was actually all for it, because if they didn't find something effective quickly, I was going to end up killing myself.  Something like 60% of ECT patients experience remission of their depressive symptoms, while the number is more like 30% for any given antidepressant.  While hospitalized I talked to other patients that had had ECT done, and most said they would do it again, despite the memory loss effects.  These were extremely depressed people who were in so much pain they wanted to die.  The loss of some memories here and there seemed like a fair trade to them for relief from that agony. 

It's worth pointing out that modern ECT is different from ECT performed in the past.  They used to put electrodes on both sides of the head, which wiped out more memories than the current technique of placing an electrode on only one side of the head.  That does not mean that catastrophic memory loss (big chunks of long-term and short-term memory) can't happen.  It's just rarer. 

ECT might be valuable to you if you are in acute danger of suicide and have had poor results from other treatment modalities.  If that doesn't describe you, I personally wouldn't recommend going through with it.  Getting a second opinion sounds like a good idea to me, since there's nothing to say that treatment for GD won't help resolve the depression.   

Here's an info article about ECT and some newer brain stimulating treatments, which you might want to look at:

https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Treatment/ECT,-TMS-and-Other-Brain-Stimulation-Therapies

If your doctor is suggesting ECT, then run as fast as you can and get another opinion.

My mother had ECT in the late 1950's and she went from a very intelligent woman full of life to a completely non functional barely coherent person. ECT essentially fried her brains and was never the same again. The damage was permanent.

Technique may be somewhat improved today, but the effect of sending strong electrical current across your brain is the same.

As many others have already pointed out, you may have other issues masquerading as depression. Please, please, please get a second opinion from a different doctor.

Have you brought up the subject of your childhood sexual abuse with your counselor yet? I remember you were reluctant to for awhile.  I only ask because if that issue has not been meaningfully addressed in counseling as well as the gender issues, then something like this ECT seems WAY too premature at this point.

Never had or would allow people I know to have ECT after being a self harmer for years ( not gender related but after a accident ) along with being a frequent flyer in hospital and the psych unit,
The people I got to know by name and they always said my name when I said hi in return and we had good chats about anything changed over time and forgot the simple things from ECT treatment when they came back to the unit and were like zombies a few days after,
I wasnt till I was on a different unit as there werent any other beds there I found the rumors true they had a dedicated ward just for ECT patients and all were zombies from having it and the first night there my room mate said so you here for ECT which was a scary though and I couldnt get out of there fast enough when my docs said your going to the usual ward<
When I returned to my 2nd home I was talking to another women and told here about it and her reply was the docs here need to start with the underlieing problems and treat that first along with finding the right meds for the indervidual along with atually listening to then not there careres and if in dout seek 2nd or 3rd opinion from a different private doc one thats open minded and doesnt take a one minded view because of what they have hear about a person...
But therapy should always come first which can last years being open with then and being on the right meds for them as they all work different and mixing some meds can actually make you worse when they interact with each other...

Saira, I have a dear friend who suffered with bipolar manic depression for more than a decade. He eventually let his docs try ect and he regretted it.

There is absolutely no way I think this is a good idea. You've only been in treatment for a few months and your depression is more than adequately explained by the combination of a history of abuse and your dysphoria.

Drugs aren't a cure all for either of your underlying problems. I strongly suggest you read "the body keeps the score" by Bessel van de Kolk or any other work from that author.

I've been working with my psychiatrist for close to 4 years on my depression which has it's roots in the effects of growing up with an abusive parent, not helped at all by my dysphoria. I've had to work on both and thankfully my therapist is nearby so my sessions are weekly. We spent nearly 2 years just managing depression and slowly uncovering the underlying causes. Of course we also talked about my dysphoria and ultimately transition has been essential to relieving my depression. I couldn't feel whole as a male and hormones have helped immeasurably.

Lastly I take Sam-E which increases dopamine levels and works without the side effects of the various pharmaceuticals that we went through. We had tried SSRIs which had worked for me back in the 90s, an ndri and an snri and all of them had unacceptable side effects (which doesn't mean they couldn't work for you).

Hugs, please stay in touch

Loving all the assumptions from all the "doctors" and "psychiatrists" in this thread.. 

If the OP has failed to respond to multiple meds from multiple drug familes, then, oddly enough, modern ECT is the go to treatment. It's efficacy is well documented. Yes, it is a last option, but it's not something recommended by psychiatrists unless medication has failed.

Caveat: Treatment regime's differ, not all places do ECT to current standards and that is barbaric.

Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2017, 06:47:26 AM
Loving all the assumptions from all the "doctors" and "psychiatrists" in this thread.. 

If the OP has failed to respond to multiple meds from multiple drug familes, then, oddly enough, modern ECT is the go to treatment. It's efficacy is well documented. Yes, it is a last option, but it's not something recommended by psychiatrists unless medication has failed.

If you assume it as a treatment of last resort then I guess you can make a case for it if, although again I would never let anyone I loved go through it new or not. I am qualified to make the statement I have made not only through experience but I have the piece of paper to go with it. I would argue it out with any psychiatrist....Most in this thread have spoken from either professional experience or personal.

Jumping on google does not make you an expert.

Quote from: ElizabethK on April 19, 2017, 06:55:25 AM
Jumping on google does not make you an expert.

Google? Nah, I walked upstairs and asked a psychiatrist..

Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2017, 06:47:26 AM
Yes, it is a last option, but it's not something recommended by psychiatrists unless medication has failed.

Caveat: Treatment regime's differ, not all places do ECT to current standards and that is barbaric.

I agree completely. ECT is the last resort when medication fails. The current standard is much better than what my mother went through.

There is nothing wrong with a second opinion by an equally qualified psychiatrist.  And if ECT was still recommended, I would get a third or fourth opinion as well. ECT is not to be taken lightly and sometimes there is permanent damage worst than the original condition.

Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2017, 06:47:26 AM
Loving all the assumptions from all the "doctors" and "psychiatrists" in this thread.. 

If the OP has failed to respond to multiple meds from multiple drug familes, then, oddly enough, modern ECT is the go to treatment.

Saira has as far as we know, only been prescribed antidepressants for 3, possibly 4 months. Given that the various reuptake inhibitor drugs (SSRI, sdri, ndri etc all take a minimum of a month to show any therapeutic effect and that there even within these major families the various options work differently for different individuals I don't need to be an MD to consider my thoughts that this is premature to be relevant and valid.

Never mind that neither hrt nor directly addressing her dysphoria are being considered when it's entirely possible that those are necessary to relieve her depression.

I just noticed this thread so I haven't read the responses. I will point out first that I'm not a medical person and this is my own opinion, but I vehemently oppose this treatment. Yes , the statistics are that there is improvement in 40 -60 % of patients but all the improvement disappears 4-6 months later and declines further with each subsequent treatment. To me if its your choice you can do what you want with your brain , but I personally would rather not fry my brain with a bombardment of raw electrons .

Quote from: Dena on April 18, 2017, 08:31:08 AM
It can stop the heart from beating and the heart needs to be shocked to restart it. It's bad enough to deal with a heart attack or to stop it when required by surgery but to stop it when there may be a far simpler solution is like visiting a witch doctor.

Oh god! Thats bad.

They are asking me to give a narco test( sodium thiopentol) to check whether I am really saying the truth.
What if I say that I don't want to  transition?

Quote from: Saira128 on April 19, 2017, 10:44:38 PM
Oh god! Thats bad.

Having my heart stop is the last thing I'd be worried about. I expect they can restart it. Having my mind permanently damaged would terrify me.