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If you can say "I don't care what people think about me" this thread isn't for u

Started by HappyMoni, April 25, 2017, 05:45:58 PM

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HappyMoni

   I used to say that I wanted to pass as cis because I hated the thought of having to depend on people's good will, tolerance, generous intentions, (whatever is the best word) in order to have positive interactions with people. I tend to hate needing anything from anybody. If people knew I was trans, I wouldn't get the free pass of not being different from others, I would keep majority status. Of course, if I am seen as trans, I am then in a minority, something I am mostly not used to.  I realize that people have that minority status all the time. They deal with it every day. They are who they are and never experienced having one status removed for another.  Am I a bit of a spoiled brat, needing to pass so I don't give up majority status? Don't get me wrong, part of me says, "I am who I am, screw you if you don't like it." I have both emotions sometimes at the same time.
   Does anyone else have that insecurity in being seen as a trans person (I know, dumb question.) I am a minority in one sense, I am an Atheist, and that is a status as a minority that doesn't bother me at all. So maybe my internalized, lifelong trans shame and fear are still working on my head when it comes to being seen by strangers as part of the trans minority. Setting aside safety concerns and my desire to be just another woman, does this desire to be seen as cis seem unhealthy? Am I only at peace if I overcome this more completely?
   Not sure if this is a topic that is interesting to others. If not consider it a rant. I am curious to know about comfort levels and being seen as trans vrs cis. Are there different ways to be at peace with this?
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
  •  

Dena

I am an introvert and as such, I don't really need other peoples approval. When it comes to passing, others can take me or leave me as long as they aren't rude to me. I understand that introverts are relatively rare and it's far better to have and enjoy social connections. I suspect part of the reason I developed as an introvert is so much of my life I have had to solve all my problems myself so I never shared much of myself. Possibly I am an endangered species but that would be a good thing.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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  •  

Cindy

I think this is an interesting question in how we allow our gender issues to influence our lives in a broader sense. I am a Prof, I teach, I run a Department and I publish and talk in public. I did so when I presented as male, I had to when I transitioned.
What I did notice was that my personal confidence soared when I transitioned, 'he' was aways reticent in public I am not.
Obviously I am seen and known as TG by those who new me prior to my transition and no doubt the word has been passed on; there is no hiding for me in that world, there can be no stealth.

How has that affected how I am perceived and treated?

Well a social experiment did recently develop, as you and many others know I have been ill and under hospital treatment. Although my treating surgeons knew of my background it was not advertised or mentioned in my clinical notes as here was no relevancy to my treatment. It was also decided that my past gender status would be deliberately kept private from staff. So my nursing staff were not aware of my past status. I was just another woman.

So how did that change how I was treated in a day to day manner? I noticed no change. I was treated with the same courtesy and friendliness by those who had no idea of my status as with those who new me in my past life.

I am by nature polite and I treat people with respect and I thank people who help me and I am not 'pushy' (believe it or not from my Forum status :laugh:) and I do find people respond in kind.

So my feeling is that we tend to overstate our gender diversity in society and worry more than we should. Of course there is a caveat, I live in an accepting society in Australia where many people wouldn't care if you painted yourself blue and declared that you were a Smurf. I realise that another places in the world such diversity would not be accepted.
  •  

Miss Clara

It's not so much for others that I've worked hard to pass as a cis woman, although it's nice to be seen and treated as a women by both men and other women.  It's more about wanting to pass as a woman in my own mind.  One of the reasons I didn't pursue cross-dressing as a coping strategy to counter my early GD is because the idea that I could overcome my masculine body features with clothes, makeup and a wig seemed ludicrous.  When I began my transition and started to present as a woman, the result was not as bad as I imagined, but there's no way I was fooling anyone.  This bothered me a lot.  People paid me compliments on my style of dress and overall appearance, but I knew they weren't being completely honest.  I needed to measure up to my own standards of femininity to find peace of mind. 

I don't show photos of my pre-transition appearance, but people who knew me well back then tell me that they'd never recognize me as that person today.   The need to leave my masculine appearance far behind was a very important part of my transition.  I'm fortunate to have led a productive life, and saved money for many years so that I could afford the surgeries and feminization treatments that were needed to de-masculinize my external appearance.  Today, I'm happy to say that I've largely undone the horrible trick that nature played on me. 
  •  

Rayna

I wish I could pass, and am working in that direction although not with an expectation (just a hope) of succeeding eventually.  But I worry about trespassing into the cis women's world -- they've been dealing with male entitlement all their lives, and now here comes one of them hoping to gain whatever privileges women get.  I just don't know if I would deserve that, if I could earn female trust.
If so, then why not?
  •  

Rambler

Thank you for bringing this up! I'm a bit behind you on my path, still presenting totally masculine, haven't even started to grow my hair or anything. The whole idea of being in the minority is something that's been hard to get my head around. I grew up as a straight white male (also athiest, but that's more internalized than the other qualities). I try not to care what others think, but it's much easier said than done. I've accepted that I'm not in the majority, but the thing I'm struggling with now is the way other people will perceive me. Honestly, the presenting as a woman part doesn't bother me as much as people knowing what's going on with me while I'm in these early, less physically tangible stages. I think being trans has everything to do with that. I don't want to be seen as transgender. I just want to be seen as a woman. Living & being perceived as a woman is no issue for me, but being perceived as a transgender woman is a bit harder, and given the sentiment & treatment towards our community in many demographics, I don't think that is unjustified. Of course, that isn't cause for me not to transition, just something else to get over along my journey.
Up and away and off I go to lose my mind and find my soul.
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DawnOday

I can't say I don't care, I do. I care that people I pass on the street will see me and make a snap decision. Snap as to my sexuality. I've been married 32 years to the same woman. I love her dearly. She is the mother of my children. I wish it could have been the other way around. Snap decision, I am a pervert. A snap decision I am only interested in raping women. A snap decision I want more rights. A snap decision I chose this.
They don't know the pain of living under an assumed name, sex. Believe me it was not a snap decision, It was not a rash decision. I promised my sister I would get therapy. This is the decision Kristi and I came up with. It was not a desire for sex. I've never really been that interested as evidenced by my first marriage..
I hope for acceptance, not to pass. I want when I walk down the street the girls say "I want that dress" or how about those earrings. I want men to look at me and then ignore me and keep their crude comments to themselves.
I've never handled criticism well especially when it is unwarranted. Do they know I am chemically castrated? The thought of  anal sex repulses me. Maybe if I  was 45 years younger, I would not have that opinion. But I defend to the heavens your right to pursue happiness in whatever orifice suits you We are all the same, but different. It's not my outward appearance I want to reveal, it is my personality, my altered brain that wants to be kind and gentle, caring  and true to myself.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

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First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



  •  

HappyMoni

I guess I want a piece of what you have Cindy and piece of what Clara has also. I am out as a trans woman to everyone I know from pre-transition. I am very okay with being known as trans to them. It is comfortable enough. The thing is, I don't want to be the trans person in every situation. I crave just being an ordinary  woman too, say, out in public. I don't want to live every minute of life with me defined as trans. The positive emotion tied to that is really wanting to be seen as a cis female like in Clara's situation. I feel like I should feel like Dena, 'whatever your impression of me, fine!'  Maybe I should own being trans all the time, view it as just being a minority group,  and move on. I don't think it is that I am embarrassed to be trans. I am not feeling embarrassed with every one that knows me. I just don't want that 'only trans' approach. Why do I feel guilty saying that? Almost like I am turning my back on any 'trans pride.' Well, everyone is different. It is  foolish to pay heed to 'shoulds' in this life. Truth be told, if I didn't have to lose the rest of my life to do it, I would try to be stealth. I guess I am rambling, sorry.
   Randy, cis women don't have to deal with the mess that is dysphoria. We pay our dues. I think, in fact, that we pay womanhood a compliment because we value it so much we want to be part of it. To me, a woman is privileged just because she has the things I want. Being a man is no privilege to me.
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
  •  

Miss Clara

I'm going play devil's advocate and throw out a rather bleak point of view.  It's not meant to discourage so much as to make you think long and hard about pulling the transition trigger if there are troubling obstacles before you.

Gender dysphoria is no picnic, but neither is transitioning, and very often neither is life post-transition depending on your expectations and how well you're able to meet them.  Just because a person is trans and experiences GD, does not automatically mean they should transition.  One has to do some serious introspection to learn who they are, what they need at a minimum to survive, what they are capable of achieving, and what they are willing to give up. 

Gender transitioning is likely to be the most difficult, disruptive, and costly thing you'll ever undertake with no guarantee of finding happiness on the other side.  If your goal is to become an ordinary everyday woman that blends into society, to be welcomed into the ranks of cis womenhood as an equal, and not experience the heartbreak of rejection for being 'different', you are setting for yourself an objective that very few late transitioning trans women can pull off.  If that's a major concern, I would work on overcoming that need before moving forward; that and any other matter that is haunting you about what the future will be like.  These issues need to be talked out with your gender therapist before you dive in. 

It may turn out that the best path is to continue coping with GD as best you can even if it means GD will be with you forever.  GD is wicked, and in most cases can only be lessened, not erased.  I know a lot of transgender people who have taken this approach knowing that the way forward is so loaded with landmines that there's no reasonable way to live full-time as the person they so dream of being. 

Acknowledgement, acceptance and adaptation to the unique circumstances you face can go along way toward finding peace in your life without transitioning. 
  •  

HappyMoni

Quote from: Clara Kay on April 25, 2017, 09:17:21 PM
I'm going play devil's advocate and throw out a rather bleak point of view.  It's not meant to discourage so much as to make you think long and hard about pulling the transition trigger if there are troubling obstacles before you.

Gender dysphoria is no picnic, but neither is transitioning, and very often neither is life post-transition depending on your expectations and how well you're able to meet them.  Just because a person is trans and experiences GD, does not automatically mean they should transition.  One has to do some serious introspection to learn who they are, what they need at a minimum to survive, what they are capable of achieving, and what they are willing to give up. 

Gender transitioning is likely to be the most difficult, disruptive, and costly thing you'll ever undertake with no guarantee of finding happiness on the other side.  If your goal is to become an ordinary everyday woman that blends into society, to be welcomed into the ranks of cis womenhood as an equal, and not experience the heartbreak of rejection for being 'different', you are setting for yourself an objective that very few late transitioning trans women can pull off.  If that's a major concern, I would work on overcoming that need before moving forward; that and any other matter that is haunting you about what the future will be like.  These issues need to be talked out with your gender therapist before you dive in. 

It may turn out that the best path is to continue coping with GD as best you can even if it means GD will be with you forever.  GD is wicked, and in most cases can only be lessened, not erased.  I know a lot of transgender people who have taken this approach knowing that the way forward is so loaded with landmines that there's no reasonable way to live full-time as the person they so dream of being. 

Acknowledgement, acceptance and adaptation to the unique circumstances you face can go along way toward finding peace in your life without transitioning.
Maybe I  gave the wrong impression. I am full time 10 months. It is amazing how much better life is. I have not had a single thought of going back. My biggest source of stress is if GCS is prevented for some reason (late June.) I have no doubts that the path I am on is right. Believe me it was a well thought out decision. I have no thoughts that this surgery will fix any other problems. This thread is about a point of view within my transition. Transition itself is not the question. The thought of my whole life as stealth is not a serious thought. Like I said, a large part of my life is involving me as being known as trans. That is something I am at peace with. The part about always being on as 'trans' is the part I am figuring out.
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
  •  

Miss Clara

I'm sorry, Moni, I went off the subject of your original post.  I'm glad that you feel you are on the right track with no desire to turn back. 

To respond to your question directly, sure I have some insecurity about being seen as a trans woman.  For those who don't know that I'm trans, it's hard to gauge to what extent people see me as trans.  My experience and rational mind tells me that most everyone sees me as a cis woman, but there's still some insecurity lingering that causes doubts.  I still take steps to lessen the chances of being clocked.  There's no way I can erase every last vestige of masculinity.  So I pay attention to the details that stand out as feminine.  Most people are, thankfully, not that discerning. 

Does hiding my medical history make me feel guilty about not supporting my community by being out and proud?  Not really.  I identify with a tiny minority of a tiny minority, i.e., transsexual women.  We are less than 10% of the larger transgender population.  My primary concern is the plight of transgender children.  To deal with gender dysphoria before puberty is the answer for people like us.
  •  

Rayna

Quote from: HappyMoni on April 25, 2017, 09:03:10 PM
   Randy, cis women don't have to deal with the mess that is dysphoria. We pay our dues. I think, in fact, that we pay womanhood a compliment because we value it so much we want to be part of it. To me, a woman is privileged just because she has the things I want. Being a man is no privilege to me.
Moni
Thank you Moni.  You're right, we are striving toward something we see as better.  Certainly I feel strongly that the world would be a better place if feminine energy dominated rather than male energy.  I wasn't suggesting that we MtF's have valued male privilege, but rather I was wondering if cis women would resent "males" for intruding into their space. 
But I appreciate your perspective and will keep that in my mind -- we admire and value the feminine side.
Randy
If so, then why not?
  •  

Brooke

I'll throw my 02 cents in. From someone who has been in a minority group from birth- cerebral palsy, I can attest to the visceral need to simply be "normal ". It's not just the dysphoria – the internal conflict with your own body, The cognitive dissonance that interacting in society as an incongruent gender.  You're also lacking the social grease that comes with falling into the majority, being able to go with the flow, and have all the normal struggles of life that most anyone can relate to.

Along with the cerebral palsy/cp I have several less obvious and yet far more impacting rare health issues. I am patient zero for a rare (obviously lol) form of epilepsy, along with corneal nerve damage that affect less than 1,000 people globally, cluster headaches (worst pain known to mankind) daily migraines, systemic nerve damage from an unknown origin. I'm not trying or wanting pity or sympathy, just trying to paint a picture. My body is the exception to the rule in most every way. At the same time I am often seen by strangers as a freeloader, lazy etc. What those same strangers don't understand is that I would sacrifice anything to be able to just go to work, pay my bills, live my life as a productive member of society. Instead I am constantly judged, deemed an entitled millennial ; a burden on society.

These are all broad strokes of course. What the strangers don't know is that I'm well educated, was mid career in the IT industry when my health failed overnight.

The parallel this very much how the fast majority of people wish they could grab those handicap parking spots without ever knowing the high cost one must pay in order to get that insignia.

Going back to being accepted and partaking in the world every cis person enjoys- I think that wanting to have a normal life in the gender role you should have had is perfectly normal, even to a cis person. While almost no trans individual will ever have that experience, if only due to all the experience missed from birth to transition, and all the mental and emotional issues that come with GID I believe it is normal to aspire, to get as close as we can to the life and experiences that we should have had. There is a certain amount of grieving that took place after I transitioned forthright loss of a normal childhood, a normal puberty, and a normal adult experience. I grieved for the normality of a life not lived as female just as I grieved for a normal healthy childhood. From day one the medical world was a part of my life. My normal growing up was physical therapy, occupational therapy, and after second grade being seen as different with all the teasing, ridicule, and bullying that comes with being different from other kids.

Oddly enough after transitioning I pass 100% of the time. Out of all the weird health stuff in my life, being trans has been the least detrimental in terms of opportunity costs. And yet even so, I wish it was something I never had to deal with, never had to explain to specialists who ask if hrt is for birth control, or when my last menstrual cycle was.

I know that my life will never be normal, that this body is one in seven billion. Does that stop me from wanting and aspiring for a normal, average, and typical life in the days I have left. Most definitely not. I will continue to aspire for what most take for granted.

Average
Normal
Mundane
Typical
Unremarkable

The experience that simply is being human and living a life.


~Brooke~
  •  

Lady Sarah

Of course, I care what people think of me. I evaluate every person I come into contact with. I like to make sure everything will stay all nice and peaceful, especially since my former life was pure hell. Even the beginning of my transition was pure hell.
Fortunately, the past 15 years or so have been without conflict. People have been wonderful. I absolutely love volunteering at the local food pantry, and have friendships with several of the other volunteers. However, memories constantly remind me to keep sharp ears and sharp eyes, just in case. Call it a form of PTSD, if you will.
started HRT: July 13, 1991
orchi: December 23, 1994
trach shave: November, 1998
married: August 16, 2015
Back surgery: October 20, 2016
  •  

HappyMoni

Quote from: Brooke on April 25, 2017, 11:15:20 PM
I'll throw my 02 cents in. From someone who has been in a minority group from birth- cerebral palsy, I can attest to the visceral need to simply be "normal ". It's not just the dysphoria – the internal conflict with your own body, The cognitive dissonance that interacting in society as an incongruent gender.  You're also lacking the social grease that comes with falling into the majority, being able to go with the flow, and have all the normal struggles of life that most anyone can relate to.

Along with the cerebral palsy/cp I have several less obvious and yet far more impacting rare health issues. I am patient zero for a rare (obviously lol) form of epilepsy, along with corneal nerve damage that affect less than 1,000 people globally, cluster headaches (worst pain known to mankind) daily migraines, systemic nerve damage from an unknown origin. I'm not trying or wanting pity or sympathy, just trying to paint a picture. My body is the exception to the rule in most every way. At the same time I am often seen by strangers as a freeloader, lazy etc. What those same strangers don't understand is that I would sacrifice anything to be able to just go to work, pay my bills, live my life as a productive member of society. Instead I am constantly judged, deemed an entitled millennial ; a burden on society.

These are all broad strokes of course. What the strangers don't know is that I'm well educated, was mid career in the IT industry when my health failed overnight.

The parallel this very much how the fast majority of people wish they could grab those handicap parking spots without ever knowing the high cost one must pay in order to get that insignia.

Going back to being accepted and partaking in the world every cis person enjoys- I think that wanting to have a normal life in the gender role you should have had is perfectly normal, even to a cis person. While almost no trans individual will ever have that experience, if only due to all the experience missed from birth to transition, and all the mental and emotional issues that come with GID I believe it is normal to aspire, to get as close as we can to the life and experiences that we should have had. There is a certain amount of grieving that took place after I transitioned forthright loss of a normal childhood, a normal puberty, and a normal adult experience. I grieved for the normality of a life not lived as female just as I grieved for a normal healthy childhood. From day one the medical world was a part of my life. My normal growing up was physical therapy, occupational therapy, and after second grade being seen as different with all the teasing, ridicule, and bullying that comes with being different from other kids.

Oddly enough after transitioning I pass 100% of the time. Out of all the weird health stuff in my life, being trans has been the least detrimental in terms of opportunity costs. And yet even so, I wish it was something I never had to deal with, never had to explain to specialists who ask if hrt is for birth control, or when my last menstrual cycle was.

I know that my life will never be normal, that this body is one in seven billion. Does that stop me from wanting and aspiring for a normal, average, and typical life in the days I have left. Most definitely not. I will continue to aspire for what most take for granted.

Average
Normal
Mundane
Typical
Unremarkable

The experience that simply is being human and living a life.


~Brooke~

Brooke, thank you so much for sharing this personal information. It does help with my perspective and maybe others as well. Maybe the simple answer is that whatever sets us apart from being 'typical' and the other words you offered, we should strive to be the best 'us' that we can be. There is no shame in wanting to be who we want to be. There is no betrayal of any group that we may be categorized as, to reach for our own personal goals. I had a bad time today at the grocery store with some guy insisting on calling me 'Sir' continually. I thought of Dena and Cindy, who probably would have let it run right off their shoulders. For me, it made me feel like crap. I could have thought of you and thought look at what Brooke has dealt with, and I can't handle this? Well, I guess we all have to take it on a personal basis. I am not really that far along in transition. It makes sense that I hate being misgendered. One day I might have the ability to not care, but I have decided I am not gonna feel guilty for not wanting to wear my 'I am trans and proud' button on my shirt every day. I don't want to speak for everyone, but things like being misgendered hurt more when we aren't satisfied  with ourselves. I am not able to feel confident or happy with myself while I still have what is in my pants. I won't apologize for that either.
   I think sometimes we come close to telling others that, "You shouldn't feel this way or that way." There is a lot of giving and taking of advice that happens on this site. I hope I never tell someone how they should feel.
   Randy, sorry if I misunderstood. I think most woman I have been in contact with don't resent trans folks. It has been quite the opposite, they seem to get joy out of helping me with my transition.
   Sarah, glad your life has gotten so much better. I get the sharp eyes and ears comment.
   Dawn, 'kind, gentle, caring and true to myself.' I love that thought.
   Rambler, you and I have a very similar frame of mind. You will be going through some very difficult, uncomfortable times. It does get better though. You will make adjustments, then more tough times then more adjustments. The good news is it can get really good. Maybe you and I on the lower end of climbing this mountain have to know that those on the summit walked right where we are now at some point in their journey.
   Clara, you had me wondering what I said that led to that direction, but all is good. I love all you ladies for contributing thoughts.
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
  •  

LizK

Great Thread and a good diversity of opinions. Do I care if I pass...the short answer is yes I do...would it ever be a factor in wether I transition or not...NO...I too live in the same society as Cindy and my expectations  are very low...I will never pass as a cis woman...it is stupid for me to even think that. However what I do expect is to be treated with dignity and politeness. I am a polite person and since transition have thrown a good part of my anger away so things don't upset me like they used to.

I went back into the social security office the other day after saying goodbye to my wife  and no kidding 60 pars of eyes turned to look at me...I gave them all my biggest smile and went and sat down. I wasn't trying to pass I was trying to be me.

I was thinking about time, space and how big everything is, how long the universe has been around, how long our lives are in comparison...they are a split second in the whole scheme of things. So why spend that split second being miserable when you can live your life as you wish.

I might have another 20 years on this earth and there is no way I am going to spend it wishing I had lived my life a certain way...I should have done this 18 years ago when I desperately wanted to...but I sacrificed nearly 2/3rd of my life so I don't make other people uncomfortable....

Passing never even entered into the consideration for Transition...45+ years of GD...that was enough!!

Liz
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
  •  

Sophia Sage

Moni, if your personal truth is that you're a woman, of course you're going to want to be seen as just that.  And the unfortunate reality of our society is that for the vast majority of people in the West, your "trans" history (whether gleaned by virtue of embodiment or narrative) will change how people interact with you, and in particular will change the gendering you receive, though that doesn't mean people won't be kind -- as Cindy points out, respect begets respect, and many will put forth a good-faith effort.  But as someone who's practiced non-disclosure for nearly two decades, while also having experience in disclosed contexts, I think there's a discernible difference in the experience. 

That said, for a lot of people, the initial impression you make will be the impression that sticks.  If you pass, and at some future point narrative disclosure occurs, it might not change anything... in short-term interactions, primarily.  For long-term relationships (work, friendship, love) misgendering can manifest subtly over time.  Context is everything. 

Quote from: HappyMoni on April 25, 2017, 09:03:10 PMI don't want to be the trans person in every situation. I crave just being an ordinary  woman too, say, out in public. I don't want to live every minute of life with me defined as trans. The positive emotion tied to that is really wanting to be seen as a cis female like in Clara's situation. I feel like I should feel like Dena, 'whatever your impression of me, fine!'  Maybe I should own being trans all the time, view it as just being a minority group,  and move on. I don't think it is that I am embarrassed to be trans. I am not feeling embarrassed with every one that knows me. I just don't want that 'only trans' approach. Why do I feel guilty saying that? Almost like I am turning my back on any 'trans pride.' Well, everyone is different. It is  foolish to pay heed to 'shoulds' in this life. Truth be told, if I didn't have to lose the rest of my life to do it, I would try to be stealth.

Our emotions precede conscious thought.  Not only can't we control what they are, they are a source of authenticity.  After all, if we could just make the dysphoria go away with a snap of the fingers, we would, wouldn't we?  But we can't.  So we have to change contexts such that dysphoria is no longer triggered.  And this will vary from person to person -- what I need is not what you need, and so forth.

If you want to experience an ordinary woman's life, I recommend finding contexts where you can maintain your narrative privacy, and go from there. 

What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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Miss Clara

Quote from: Sophia Sage on April 27, 2017, 11:05:46 AM
Our emotions precede conscious thought.  Not only can't we control what they are, they are a source of authenticity.  After all, if we could just make the dysphoria go away with a snap of the fingers, we would, wouldn't we?  But we can't.  So we have to change contexts such that dysphoria is no longer triggered.  And this will vary from person to person -- what I need is not what you need, and so forth.

If you want to experience an ordinary woman's life, I recommend finding contexts where you can maintain your narrative privacy, and go from there.

This is so true in my experience.  My SO and I spend winters in Arizona, a rather politically conservative state compared to our permanent home in Illinois near Chicago.  All my friends and acquaintances up north know of my past in complete contrast to our friends and neighbors in AZ.  There are good and bad things about "nondisclosure".  It's not just how people interact with you, it's how you interact with them.  When I know that they don't know about my past, a subtle but different dynamic takes place.   It goes beyond the normal civil respect that I get as a known trans woman in Chicago.  Women, and particularly men, are far less guarded in the way they related to me here in AZ.  It's nice.  On the other hand, we have to be more guarded so as not to give my private past away, something I don't concern myself with where my status is already known.  So it's a two-edged sword.  Deciding what to disclose is a tricky thing, too.  It's impossible to not have a past.  Disclosing parts of it just can't be avoided.  It can be a bit stressful in some situations to have to filter your comments during a conversation.  As basically social introverts, that kind of verbal pre-processing comes natural for us.  And, like with all skills, we've gotten better at it the more we practice.
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Sophia Sage

Quote from: Clara Kay on April 27, 2017, 11:42:49 AMThere are good and bad things about "nondisclosure".  It's not just how people interact with you, it's how you interact with them. 

When I know that they don't know about my past, a subtle but different dynamic takes place.   It goes beyond the normal civil respect that I get as a known trans woman in Chicago.  Women, and particularly men, are far less guarded in the way they related to me here in AZ.  It's nice. 

Yeah, isn't that interesting?  I always feel more "free" in contexts of non-disclosure.  Like I can really be myself.  And that changes when I enter disclosed spaces -- like visiting family, for instance. 

Disclosure changes everyone.  Which makes sense to me -- for "coming out" is a social ritual that (typically) establishes new social categorization.  The problem with disclosure is that while it can help move one past the incorrect gendering pre-transition, it has the opposite effect post-transition.


QuoteOn the other hand, we have to be more guarded so as not to give my private past away, something I don't concern myself with where my status is already known.  So it's a two-edged sword.  Deciding what to disclose is a tricky thing, too.  It's impossible to not have a past.  Disclosing parts of it just can't be avoided.  It can be a bit stressful in some situations to have to filter your comments during a conversation.  As basically social introverts, that kind of verbal pre-processing comes natural for us.  And, like with all skills, we've gotten better at it the more we practice.

Over time, you might find that "translating" the past comes naturally and easily with practice.  I don't really have to filter anything anymore.  My narrative is my narrative -- and only a very few things need to be elided. 
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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kelly_aus

Some interesting ideas being discussed here, but I don't agree with them all.

For example, some people treat me differently when they know, but they are a minority of my friends and acquaintances. For the most part, I'm treated like any other woman they know. I thought, early on, that being out and therefore "different" would lead to me being treated differently, I was wrong. Through observation and experience, I've learnt that to most of them I'm just another woman.

I also don't think "editing" your past is a viable solution.. Sure, I will tell stories from my past, but correcting my name/gender is as far as the editing goes. Too much editing just turns it in to an often hard to remember lie.

For some context, I live in the same city as Cindy, but there's probably about a 20 year difference in our ages. She appears as a fairly normal older woman. As for me? I'm much more identifiable as trans - or at least I think so..

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