Hey, I'm very conflicted. I am questioning if I am transgender (16,AFAB, thinking I might be ftm).

However recently I have realized it might just be internalized misogyny, which frankly scares the sh*t out of me.

Let me explain; I myself have never followed the gender norms of being female, since I was young I acted stereo-typically "male". I was raised in a gender based home, a stay at home mum. A dad that goes to work etc. My room was pink, my brothers was blue. I was forced into "lady habits" or whatever but I rebelled against that completely basically achieving the title of a "tomboy".

I noticed most girls were not like this, I stuck out. I was also bullied alot when I was younger for also being hairy (since I was like 4). I was told I was a gorilla etc, basically built in that it was wrong (still a huge insecurity for me). I never really cared about my gender when I was say 1-4. But around 5-7 I started realizing the gender roles and I was envious of guys, I wished I was guy and I thought guys were lucky for being male. I assumed this was the same for all females.  I do remember becoming very jealous that males kept their flat chest and could get abs around 10 I would workout desperate to get like a "fit dude" before I developed.

It was also (not sure if this was before or after male physique obsessions) when my parents decided I could watch more adult movies with them. I was exposed to the sudden sexualisation of women. I HATED IT. I would have horrible thoughts before bed of women almost forcing there sexuality on me. I would listen to like audio books to try erase my own thoughts. I would cry and I didn't want to tell anyone because I was scared of what they mean't?

Moving on in life (12-14) I began to see I developed differently to other girls I had more of broad shoulders and more hair ie more masculine characteristics. By this point I'm pretty sure I have PCOS (runs in the family + I show the symptoms). I felt alienated from my female peers not only did I act more masculine but look more masculine, and I didn't want to necessarily look like the females but I wanted to be normal. I could not force myself to be more fem though, it truly wasn't me.  My envy for males being males just skyrocketed, they could be strong and have strength etc they could wear Tuxes and Suits not dresses (I have a INSANE hate for anything feminine). Also around 14 I got fat which did not help things insecurity wise. However I noticed I had breast and got periods around that time which made me initially happy thinking I was becoming normal, I always assumed I would grow into liking being a girl and what came with it and this was a step.

I tried being girly in this time, just the way I acted really I didn't change anything physcially. I was shamed for being a loud girl, a hairy girl, a fat girl. I wanted to be a guy so bad by this point. I then discovered ftm videos boy was I hooked. I LOVED them so much I wished I prayed I could do that. I remember thinking "I wish I could do that but I can't". I also remember starting to almost hate my Mum for being female, Idk it was weird I felt like she was so stupid sometimes and it annoyed me that she was female as well. I remember wanting male pets etc. I also was ALWAYS male in video games. When I hanged out with a mixed group at school I tried being "one of the guys", every time a guy would be like "she is one of the guys" SO much validation and happiness would run through my veins.

Well let's say I lost all the weight, began feeling more confident with whom I was. I cut my hair short. I replaced my wardrobe with all stuff from the guys section, my deodorant show gel all men etc. But.. it still didn't feel right I hated being female, I envied guys SO much. I hated that other females like dresses, makeup that they liked being female. Why did I hate being female so much :c. I started to hate my chest my curves, I would disassociate ALOT. I go to the gym and when I work out and imagine my "idea body" I imagine myself as a guy with six packs abs and a hairless body. When I see myself in the mirror as a female in the gym I cringe I only feel happy that I have muscle or whatever when I see myself through a male vision.  Every time I hear males objectify women I cry internally as well. Also when I imagine myself with anyone I shudder, I am masculine in all-ways and well guys are attracted to feminine people. (I'm attracted to males). So no one would like me. But I hate the feminine parts of me so like trying to embrace them would kill me.

I've thought, I wouldn't be too ugly if I worse makeup, did laser (ie got rid of hair from PCOS) and acted more fem, started wearing dresses. I could live as a "female". BUT IT MAKES ME WANT TO CRY. I hate being female so much SO MUCH. I just want to be male, thinking I was transgender was almost a relief I was happy. When I realized it might just internalized misogyny I cried. I don't want to be a female I hate it. I want to be male I love everything about it, abs/flat chest, no hips; I can be loud, wear tuxes. Trying to be "true to me" has just made me hate myself because I look like a wannabe male.. (Strong, short hair, male clothes etc). AND I hate being this freak. Why couldn't I just been born male? I hate that this most likely internalized misogyny and I shouldn't transition but I don't care I still want to be a guy. Is it bad if I transition if it really is just internalized misogyny I think I would be happier as a male anyway :/

Advice? Thoughts? Opinions?
Please help!

Your story just sounds like a typical transmale to me.

It's also similar to my experience although I'm a non-transitioning nonbinary partial transmale.

Don't worry about the misogyny..it's apparently hard-wired into male traits that mostly accumulate on the right side of the brain.

I could be many labels associated with being androgynous; bigender, gender fluid, agender, etc. I have both an active female and male side, with the male side stronger.

My male side thinks girls are boring, beneath him, and that, of course, males rule. Yet a girl can smile at him and wrap him around her little finger.

My female side thinks men are morons, and only there to serve girls.

I used to flip from one mode to the other, confusing myself, but I began taking a Thai herb that blends the two gender modes into one.

I am probably pansexual (attracted to any gender) but my two gender mode sexual attractions seem to have canceled each other out,  rendering me asexual..no sexual attraction to any gender.
But I'm also demisexual, in that if I've been in an exclusive relationship for well over a year, then I can feel sexual attraction.

In the meantime, I can take sex or leave it. But once the required courting time has passed and demisexual attraction is triggered, I'm told my libido is stronger than most men's and I can play gender roles either way or both at the same time.

I wouldn't worry too much about who would be attracted to you.
1. you can't change who you are anyway
2. there are many people out there looking for someone just like you
3. I look like a petite female, AND I'm 64 years old, yet both genders hit on me equally.

Of course, I'm not interested, although my last ex is trying to rekindle things.

Welcome to Susan's Place. While I am not a doctor and can't give an official opinion, you show all the classic signs of being transgender. ->-bleeped-<- is a self diagnosed condition so it will be up to you to decide if you are and if so, what would make you comfortable in life. A good place to start would be to see a gender therapist. This would allow you to explore your feelings and become more sure of your opinion. For now, there are a couple of extra links you might want to look at. The first is our WIKI which will help you understand the labels that might apply to you. The second link is "the transition channel" where a gender therapist will help you explore your feelings. Feel free to ask any questions you might have.

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Transgender female here, sounds pretty identical to me, just the other way, right down to already having some physical traits of the correct gender. In my case I've begun to suspect Klinefelter syndrome, but it's not been diagnosed by a professional, basically I've got some decent boobs already before starting HRT, and nice wide hips, unfortunately I didn't seem to get the inhibited facial and body hair symptom, but as I understand it, Klinefelter syndrome displays some, but not all of its symptoms in those affected.

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Unluckily for us the only treatment that seems to work is to change our gender expression until it matches our brains. Most of us wouldn't want to do it the other way anyway, changing the physical structure of your brain is a pretty creepy prospect, much better to just give it the chemical soup it's been telling you it needs to function normally. Transgender thoughts and desires never go away, not completely, and if you're asking the question, you already know the answer, and you're trying to avoid it because it's the harder thing to do (socially), it'd be easier if you're just a tomboy with misogynistic brainwashing.

Don't fall into that trap, get a therapist who specializes in gender issues, they'll help you come to your conclusions on this, and if you want to, they'll even help you to enact physical changes. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to stroke my beard some more while eyeing the clippers... Cause I'll feel silly in the waiting room for my first HRT appointment with a full beard and all... But it's convenient camouflage...

This doesn't sound like internalized misogyny to me but rather a transgender person that is finding himself. If you just turn the coin around I was a male that hated everything male. I was jealous of females and wanted to be one so bad. The story is very similar except that I could not fill my closet with female clothes until I started transitioning.I also tried to be normal too the point where I got married and had a child. I could not act female as it is not socially acceptable to be a feminine guy but being a tomboy is. I would suggest exploring this feelings with a therapist. But you sound pretty transgender too me.

For me, I harbor no animosity or even remote dislike towards women or feminine things. I just don't want them to be forced on me because that's not who I am. My dislike and discomfort with certain aspects of my body wasn't rooted in the fact that those parts were "feminine", but that they weren't what I felt I was supposed to have.

If your dislike of feminine things extends beyond yourself, I think it's definitely misogyny and a problem. Just because I don't identify with or have feminine traits doesn't mean that women are inferior or less than or have any less value than I do.

Being trans and having internalized misogyny are not mutually exclusive. I've met plenty of (typically very young) FTM guys who are trying so hard to exude a really macho image that the things they say and their attitudes become incredibly anti-female.

It sounds like you could really benefit from speaking to a therapist. If you think you would be happier living as a man, you can always transition. You should also understand though that transition isn't a fix-all. The body imagine you describe wanting to achieve will take a lot of time, money, and dedication. So I wouldn't go into transition thinking that it will solve all of your problems.

Unless you hate all women, and things about all other women, this isn't "internalized misogyny". This term has been invented and abused to make any feeling about women or being a woman that isn't absolutely positive in every way appear to be some kind of deep hatred. 

Is every instance of not wanting to be a woman a result of abject hatred? Of course not. There are people here who don't want to be men. Does that mean they automatically despise men?

Quote from: FTMax on April 29, 2017, 09:52:42 AM

If your dislike of feminine things extends beyond yourself, I think it's definitely misogyny and a problem. Just because I don't identify with or have feminine traits doesn't mean that women are inferior or less than or have any less value than I do.

I don't hate feminine things beyond me, its more I hate that the other people are so comfortable with it and I'm not :/. I don't think Men are above Women either. And I guess I don't hate all feminine things either its more I just hate what it makes people view me as.. if that makes.

Quote from: IGotIssues on April 29, 2017, 05:40:07 PM

Quote from: FTMax on April 29, 2017, 09:52:42 AM

If your dislike of feminine things extends beyond yourself, I think it's definitely misogyny and a problem. Just because I don't identify with or have feminine traits doesn't mean that women are inferior or less than or have any less value than I do.

I don't hate feminine things beyond me, its more I hate that the other people are so comfortable with it and I'm not :/. I don't think Men are above Women either. And I guess I don't hate all feminine things either its more I just hate what it makes people view me as.. if that makes.

Quote from: IGotIssues on April 28, 2017, 11:42:16 PM
I also remember starting to almost hate my Mum for being female, Idk it was weird I felt like she was so stupid sometimes and it annoyed me that she was female as well.

I'm just going by what was in your original post.

Quote from: IGotIssues on April 29, 2017, 05:40:07 PM
I don't hate feminine things beyond me, its more I hate that the other people are so comfortable with it and I'm not :/. I don't think Men are above Women either. And I guess I don't hate all feminine things either its more I just hate what it makes people view me as.. if that makes.

Then this is not "internalized misogyny" as the 'definition' seems to be.

This is the natural and predictable result of being forced into a position you aren't comfortable with. You are not comfortable but others are, it is normal to feel annoyed by your difference and the experience. And if you are being viewed in a way that is not comfortable it stands to reason you aren't loving it.

Does not sound like the "secret/unconscious hatred of women" idea that's being peddled everywhere, does it.

I used to have fairly sexist thoughts but they were always aimed directly at myself.
It's not that I thought women were incapable of doing things simply because they were women; I thought I was incapable of doing things because I was stuck as a woman.
That's why I never pursued a career through any of my artistic endeavors (I didn't want to be known as a 'female' artist) despite tons of people telling me I should. It's also why I got stuck in the same dead-end job for 11 years.

Am I sexist? No. In fact, the further I'm removed from femininity through transitioning, the more I admire women and their strength in general.

You may find a similar outcome should you choose to move forward with transitioning.