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Evidence that electrolysis offers better long-term results than laser?

Started by ashadyna, June 08, 2017, 10:11:55 AM

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ashadyna

Note: This post is based on something I originally wrote on another forum.

With respect to pre-surgical genital electrolysis, this is my understanding of the current conventional wisdom:

QuoteWhile laser hair removal is faster and less expensive than electrolysis, it is only an appropriate option for certain people. In particular, laser will not be an effective option for people with darker skin and/or lighter hair. Moreover, electrolysis is the only permanent hair removal technique. For GRS recipients, any future regrowth will be very difficult to address after surgery. For this reason, pre-surgical genital electrolysis is recommended for all GRS patients, regardless of skin or hair color.

Personally, I have already obtained 10+ hours of genital electrolysis. I did this, despite having light skin and dark hair. For this reason, I have been very frustrated by my inability to find any empirical evidence suggesting that electrolysis results are more permanent than laser results. In fact, despite there being numerous studies documenting the effectiveness of laser, I have not identified any studies supporting the long-term effectiveness of electrolysis.

The problem is summarized in a recent peer-reviewed publication in Translational Andrology and Urology:

QuoteAlthough the literature on hair removal prior to genital GAS is limited, electrolysis has been commonly used for this indication, as it had been the sole solution for long-term hair removal before the advent of LHR (2,3,13,27,28). Reliance on this practice has persisted in public and professional transgender health care forums, despite the absence of evidence-based clinical guidelines or peer reviewed data to support favoring electrolysis over LHR.

However, more recent studies specific to genital GAS support the use of LHR over electrolysis in this setting. A follow-up study of 232 patients who had undergone electrolysis before genital GAS found that those who underwent preoperative genital electrolysis did not report a reduction in postoperative vaginal hair complications compared to those who were not treated (3). On the other hand, a recent case report of long-pulsed alexandrite LHR on scrotal skin prior to genital GAS demonstrated no intra-vaginal hair growth at 15 months following vaginoplasty (27). Several case reports have also described the use of LHR for removal of urethral hair following hypospadias and stricture repair with minimal side effects and satisfactory outcomes up to 1 year following LHR (29-33).

Thus, the best available (only?) study examining the effectiveness of pre-GRS genital electrolysis, identified no measurable benefit. In that study, 6% of those receiving preoperative genital electrolysis still had serious vaginal hair problems.

I believe the current conventional wisdom is based on the FDA recommendation which states that electrolysis is a "permanent hair removal method", but does not make the same claim about laser. A few points on this. First, I cannot locate the basis for the FDA recommendation. Second, my understanding is that the FDA is only claiming electrolysis offers permanent reduction, rather than 0 regrowth. On the contrary, according to the Textbook on Cutaneous & Aesthetic Surgery, electrolysis is "associated with as much as 50% hair regrowth."

So far, my research has led me to conclude that the conventional wisdom on this issue is almost certainly wrong. Laser hair removal is likely the preferable option for pre-operative genital hair removal in terms of effectiveness, cost, and time for ideal laser candidates, and may possibly be the preferable option for all GRS patients. However, I am still open to the possibility that I am missing something.

Can anyone offer evidence that is supportive of electrolysis over laser for pre-operative genital hair removal?

Moreover, can anyone provide reasons to not be concerned by the Anne Lawrence survey of 232 post-op MTF Meltzer patients, that found the following
:

QuotePreoperative electrolysis to remove genital hair, undergone by most patients, was not associated with less serious vaginal hair problems.
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zirconia

Ashadyna,

I'm afraid I don't have links to studies in English, and can't yet link to even non-English studies until I make a few more hundred posts, so I hope you don't mind reading about what I've myself heard, learnt and experienced.

Used properly, laser can be effective and permanent. The clinic I know (and went to) published a study—including histological data—that indicated that if applied properly even vellus hair can be permanently removed provided that it is not white. The clinic guaranteed permanent beard removal for life for a flat fee of approximately $1000. The caveats were:

  • Since hair cycles are irregular, complete removal can take several years.
  • Some hair may lose pigment when treated.
  • Unpigmented hair is impervious to laser.

According to the doctor in charge:

  • For high growth density areas the first treatment fluence must be low enough to just stun the hair roots. This first treatment is meant to just induce shedding and does not permanently remove anything. Its goal is to temporarily lower growth density enough to let the clinic increase the fluence in subsequent sessions without causing skin damage. The second treatment is timed around two to three weeks later to allow for maximum shedding.
  • All subsequent sessions must be scheduled so as to keep the hair density low enough to maintain and incrementally increase fluence.
  • Sufficient laser tip refrigeration is necessary to prevent heating of non-target tissue. (The tips at the clinic were cooled down to -20°C.)
  • The tip pressure must be high to efficiently remove heat from the target spot and to incline the roots so that the light hits them broadside, rather than from just the top.
  • Gel must be used to maximize heat transfer.
  • The tips must be cleaned frequently (every few shots). Any debris on the glass surface not only lowers the energy delivered to the target, but also heats up as it blocks and absorbs the laser energy. This can cause burns at high fluences.
  • The treatment area must be charted for complete coverage during each session (a grid drawn on skin using a color that doesn't react to the laser.)

Provided the above and the right laser for the skin type, hair will be permanently reduced.
Yes, reduced.

From what I understand, the reason laser has to be called "hair reduction" is that it absolutely cannot remove every single hair—at least if some is white. Some will be, and some may also turn white when the roots are damaged.

In contrast, every single hair can be unfailingly removed using proper electrolysis technique.

I've experienced both treatments. Laser did reduce the number of hairs on my face by about 97%. That part cost me just the $1000 that I paid in the beginning. It permanently removed all hair that had any significant color, but since the treatments had to be spaced farther and farther apart to be meaningful it took about three years. Some also turned reddish, and some white. To get rid of the red ones the clinic had to eventually increase the fluence to 42 J/cm2. (I had no skin damage.) The white ones were of course impervious to further treatment.

After the laser I underwent about 15 hours of electrolysis to remove the whites, weed out stragglers hiding within the sideburn border, and take care of other little odds and ends here and there.

To sum up, insufficient fluence will only temporarily stun hair. Even if it does damage the roots, as long as papillae remain viable the hair may come back. (The "bulb" located in the mid-area of the follicle is thought to play a part in this.) A high fluence is very effective, but precautions must be taken and proper technique used to avoid burns.

Electrolysis is slower, but guaranteed to be permanent if the practitioner is skillful. The quoted 50% regrowth rate that I've also seen only means that there often is something wrong with the insertions and/or power settings used.

As for Anne Lawrence, I'm afraid I cannot comment.
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ashadyna

Thank you for your thoughts! Very helpful for my understanding!

It's very interesting to me that people's confidence in electrolysis appears to be based on both an understanding of the underlying mechanism and anecdote, as opposed to systematic empirical demonstrations of effectiveness.
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Jennifer RachaelAnn

One thing I would like to note, is that if, like me, you're heavily tattooed laser isn't really an option. It will destroy the tattoos you have. So for some of us, for permanent hair removal electrolysis is the only option.
"There are many who would take my time. I shun them.
There are some who share my time. I am entertained by them.
There are precious few who contribute to my time. I cherish them."


-Anton Szandor LaVey



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LizK

This quote is taken from the link above https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4893513/

Quote......LHR is an FDA-approved form of permanent hair reduction rather than permanent hair removal. The distinction between hair removal and reduction is mechanistic: LHR does not reduce the number of hair follicles, as electrolysis does, but rather reduces the number of hairs by damaging the follicular bulb while leaving the follicle intact....

I often wondered what the tactual difference was between the two...by the look of this the mechanisms are different but the outcome is similar...

I noted with Electrolysis that "Operator Skill" was a big factor

Great info
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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