Hi everyone. Im having a lot of trouble with social transition. Its really confusing and I'm getting hurt feelings a lot also. My physical transition is going great and I pass with no problem. The problem is how people, especially my family, treats me now. I spent a year in boulder with my grandparents on my mom's side during the transition to full time female. I've been back in Denver for 3 months. My dad and older brother especially treat me really different. I was never masculine and I didn't have masculine interests like they do but even so I was close with both of them. I guess we are still close but since I came back it's kind of like I'm not totally valid as a person anymore. Both of them are like dismissive with me now. When I talk to either one of them I get " yeah, ok, umhm. " but it's totally obvious they aren't listening to anything I'm saying. Both of them are also always telling me what I can and can't and what I should and shouldn't do as a female. I don't understand that. Neither of them is or ever has been female so how can they tell me how to be female?  I'm also getting excluded a lot. I use to do stuff with both of them and now they make plans and do stuff without me. If I ask if I can go with them my dad will say " we are doing guy stuff. " or " not really for girls".  My brother won't let me hang out with him hardly at all anymore. He says it would be weird if his sister was hanging out with him a lot. And he doesn't want me around when his friends are over either.  Yeah they are muscle headed baboons who used to mess with me but they were also funny and could be fun to hang out with. My grandpa on my dad's side never was thrilled with me being very fem and androgynous but he always treated me well and we used to have talks a lot. Now he pretty much ignores anything I have to say or dismisses me. After a couple minutes of trying to talk to him he'll say something like " make yourself useful Julia and get me some coffee." I tried talking to my mom about it but she also gets dismissive with me. All she says is " it's like that for all women. You can't have it both ways Julia."  Even guy friends I had treat me kind of like my dad and brother treat me. I don't want to be treated like a guy. I just want to be treated like I'm not a airheaded simpleton.They way I get talked down to makes me feel like everyone thinks transition made me stupid and feeble minded. And my brother acts weird in other ways. I'm wondering if he thinks I'm like gross now or something. Once he came into my room while I was changing clothes. He shut his eyes and turned around really quick and he told me for god's sake close the door when I'm changing. I wasn't naked or anything I had on a bra and panties. Then another time we were watching a movie and he reached over to get my attention and ended up putting his hand on my boob. He jerked away like he got burned or something and got kind of red in the face. I said " next time you have to buy me dinner before touching those" it was just a joke but he told me that it wasn't funny at all and not to say things like that. I know I am lucky to have an accepting family and shouldn't complain but this is all really new to me and I'm not sure how to deal with it or even if there's anything I can do about it. And I'm also sorry if my posts seem ignorant and whiny.  I just don't know a lot about all of this stuff.

I'm sorry they treat you like that Julia. It is good that they accept you but it sucks that all the men in your family have such a low opinion of women's worth. I know from your other post this is a really ingrained thing in your family. Your mother is complicit to the behavior. She was likely raised in a household that had a similar dynamic. You may not see much change from your family but you can still be a strong modern woman and not accept that kind of life for yourself.

Quote from: josie76 on June 16, 2017, 10:58:17 AM
I'm sorry they treat you like that Julia. It is good that they accept you but it sucks that all the men in your family have such a low opinion of women's worth. I know from your other post this is a really ingrained thing in your family. Your mother is complicit to the behavior. She was likely raised in a household that had a similar dynamic. You may not see much change from your family but you can still be a strong modern woman and not accept that kind of life for yourself.

My thoughts exactly.  Doesn't really sound like your brother or father are supportive of your transition.  Especially, excluding you saying it's "guy" stuff.  WTF is "guy" stuff anyways as if women can't enjoy stereotypical guy stuff.  harumph.

Just like you, your family members are transitioning. Seems that they aren't hadling it well presently. Maybe tnhey will change. Meanwhile you just be you. You sound happy about your transitioning and that's great. Don't let the negativity get dow off your game.

Sadly, it sounds like, in your family, you transitioned well. They are treating you like how they normally treat women. Doesn't mean that every woman has to put up with it. I'd call them out and keep ot in their face. But that's just me. Good luck!

--
"You do realize, this means you get to do character creation & the newbie zone all over again? "

The clearly see you as female, but personally I don't think I could be around people who treat women like that. It would drive me nuts. I'd be moving.

I assume that everyone's like that around them? Friends, workplace, etc? I can't seem them changing if that the case, not in the current generation anyway.

As difficult as it sounds to be dealing with this shift in how they see/treat you, the fact that they say things like "this is guy stuff" sounds like true acceptance based on what you've said about their view of women in general.  As a kid, I remember always wanting to sit with the females at family dinners, my mom and aunts and female cousins having one conversation, while the males had another.  It was never on purpose and not every time we got together, but the separation seemed somewhat natural. 

I've also been reading posts of others on here that discuss the change in how their coworkers treat them.  For some, chivalry has suddenly appeared in surprising ways.  For others, the condescension and "mansplaining" has appeared.  Even though you don't necessarily feel that all of your personality or interests have changed, just your being a woman has signaled this shift for your family.

I worked a chair massage gig for a company a few weeks ago.  A guy was talking to one of his coworkers, saying that he'd signed up for "her" chair (meaning mine, as he pointed towards me).  I got all flattered, but then he got on my chair and I got this kinda weird kinda creepy vibe.  Something my female friends discuss a lot, but it was my first time even considering that. Becoming a woman is going to include these negative or uncomfortable elements, but that may just be something I need to expect in losing male privilege.

I think your mom is right, you cannot have it both ways. Try to learn the feminine art of manipulating men in the direction you need ("my fat Greek wedding" movie comes to mind).

And try to build your own circle of girl friends.


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~Unfortunately, it's true that you can't have it "both ways". I think what she means by this, you can't expect people won't change somewhat because of the gender roles ingrained in society and the loss of privilegie that comes with being a woman, that is if you had any before. But I also wouldn't be complicit on this kind dismissiveness and dumb treating. Being a woman doesn't mean you're not capable or smart, so you have every right to reject what they are trying to impose on you and, more than likely, you will eventually prove them wrong with all those assumptions.

As for your grandad, he's treating you unfairly but he also is processing lot of information and emotions about it. He might change. If he doesn't, there's not much you can but let him be.

I may add that as long as you're not fully financially independent and living in your own place, it's highly unlikely you can change your father... after all he can always think 'my house my rules,


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Quote from: Julia1996 on June 16, 2017, 10:41:09 AM
... I tried talking to my mom about it but she also gets dismissive with me. All she says is " it's like that for all women. You can't have it both ways Julia."....

This is almost word-for-word what my wife told me.  I'm no longer her husband, I do not have the social rights that my husband had and don't expect anything to be the same between us.

Guys do not want to hang out with women.  They feel like they need to be guarded.

In a way it's a compliment.  They see you and are treating you like a woman and not the guy that you simulated before.  Unfortunately, you will most likely NOT be accepted by woman, that you knew in your previous life, as a woman.  One exception are distant old female friends from high school.  So far, they have accepted me but unfortunately they're 750 miles away.  It all sucks - but Gender dysphoria sucks more.

I have found myself spending more and more time with new friends.  I've put in a concerted effort to meet new people and to only be feminine with them.  It's working.  I went through a very lonely period (In a way I still am) but it's getting better now that I've come to understand the situation. 

This sucks, but you can never "go home".

This is from my guy perspective

Quote from: Julia1996 on June 16, 2017, 10:41:09 AM
When I talk to either one of them I get " yeah, ok, umhm. " but it's totally obvious they aren't listening to anything I'm saying.

I don't know what your saying to your family to get the yeah okay, but there a bunch of topics that my wife talks about and I yeah okay her and I admit I am not really listening because I don't care about the topic sometimes.

Quote from: Julia1996 on June 16, 2017, 10:41:09 AM
And my brother acts weird in other ways. I'm wondering if he thinks I'm like gross now or something. Once he came into my room while I was changing clothes. He shut his eyes and turned around really quick and he told me for god's sake close the door when I'm changing. I wasn't naked or anything I had on a bra and panties.

Although it is perfectly normal for guys to go shirtless in our society, there is a real fear of seeing a bra. I think guys are taught to give females privacy, since breast are considered more sexual then man boobs.

Quote from: Julia1996 on June 16, 2017, 10:41:09 AM
Then another time we were watching a movie and he reached over to get my attention and ended up putting his hand on my boob. He jerked away like he got burned or something and got kind of red in the face. I said " next time you have to buy me dinner before touching those" it was just a joke but he told me that it wasn't funny at all and not to say things like that.

Your friend acts like a gentleman. The breast is an intimate area and I can understand your friend wanting to steer clear. Most guys are socialized that it is not okay to just touch a female's breast. I have had a bunch of female friends over the years and never touched their breast. I have no interest in touching their breast. On the other hand I have had contact multiple times with my girlfriends breasts.