First time posting, so apologies for any formatting problems, wrong use of tags, etc.

I've had recurring dysphoria since before puberty, but it seems to fluctuate. How much that's actually fluctuation as such and how much it's me pressing down on it, though, I'm not sure.

It's not so much a gender role problem - I've found a reasonable amount of leeway for "honorary guy" status, so it's not a "masculine personality" driven thing. I think.

The main thing - and right now it's going through a particularly bad patch - is my body feels wrong. (I tried packing and it felt better. And the worst I remember it being before was when I first grew breasts.)

But it also makes me feel wrong - fake - socially, having people relate to me as if I'm clearly, unquestionably, female. Which physically there's no reason for people to think I'm not: I'm big-busted with child-bearing hips. (People who aren't paying full attention still sometimes default to thinking I'm a guy, but they usually change that in a rush of apologies at a second look.)

Just to confuse things further, I seem to be missing a lot of things that seem like standard FTM narrative. I was not particularly tomboyish growing up, and never sporty. I don't have strong urges to dress in "male" clothing or get "male" hairstyles. The only group of people that make me reliably feel like "that's who I want to be" are male-bodied cross-dressers (thanks, brain).

But I feel - wrong. And it never quite stops. So what are the options? Get hormone levels tested? Do a trial-run on T? Just choke it back down again? I realize this probably sounds like a luxury problem to people who full on can't imagine any option other than transitioning, but it's still hard to take, and it's hard to tell what will set it off again.

Welcome to Susan's Place. As you are questioning, a good place to start would be to see a gender therapist as you would be able to get into far more detail than you can here. At this point, I would advise against going for testosterone as it's pretty much a one way street and it's very difficult to reverse it's effects. T should be reserved for when you know there will be no turning back.

Dysphoria affects each of us differently so what makes one uncomfortable may not make another uncomfortable. We also don't all follow the same storyline. Consider that a woman could be a homemaker or run a multi billion dollar company. You are unique and could be a mix of both male and female. This is considered the non binary and is for people who don't want a complete transition or would be more comfortable living with a mix but from the opposite side. A gender therapist can help you discover where in this mix you fit.

I have a couple of links that might be helpful to you. The first is our WIKI where you can see that there are other things than the standard transition. The second link is "the transition channel" where a gender therapist will help you explore your feelings. Feel free to ask questions as many on the site have resolved similar issues and will be glad to help.

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There is no one way to be trans just like there is no one way to be cis. Some cis women and trans women love to be tomboyish; some cis men and trans men love to be feminine. How you like to express your gender doesn't determine your gender identity. And being trans comes down to having frequent body or/and social dysphoria (your assigned pronouns and name feeling wrong or not suiting you) than having a 'masculine' personality or a 'feminie' one.

As you start to realise you're trans it's common to feel 'fake' but  you're not wrong to want to be accepted as the guy you are. Some cis guys do have large hips or gynecomastia. Doesn't make them 'fake' to want to be seen as the men they are. At least thinking of it that ways helps me to deal with it better.

I get that feeling too about male bodied cross dressers. I'd love to grow my hair long, wear fem clothes and have that sort of confidence. Nothing strange about that; you can be a straight cis guy and still want that type of look. And you doesn't make you less of a binary trans man.

I think a gender therapist would help. Getting your hormones tested is pointless. A cis woman can have high T levels but still identify as her assigned gender or a cis man can have high estrogen levels and still identify as a man. T will cause permanent changes within a month such as clit growth and your voice breaking. It's best to weigh up the mental benefits with the physical negatives of taking it to decide if that's what you want. Not all binary trans men want to take HRT or have surgery and there's no rush to do so.

You might want to invest in a binder (GC2B make the best ones)

I struggled through my first 26 years of life with this struggle.  I went through periods of times where I tried to be feminine and others where I embraced my masculinity.  I actually tried to transition once around...18-19 I think.  I was met with tons of resistance and I gave up and doubted myself immensely.  I spent the next 6-7 years fighting with myself until I finally let myself live. 

We talk about how there is no one way to be trans.  But, there is no one right way to be a guy.  I know guys who transitioned into incredibly Feminine gay guys.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  You should never feel like you aren't allowed to be the real you because you don't fit into a social norm. 

My friends tell me all the time that I should have been born a gay man (this is only odd because the love of my life is a beautiful cis woman).  She frequently tells me I'm gay (in a loving way). 

My point is that you don't need to fit a mold.  Be you and enjoy life.  And remember T is not a cure all.  And transitioning is hard.  Acne is...one of the most annoying things I've ever faced in my entire life.  But transitioning has brought me so much peace and strength that I wouldn't change it for the world.  I don't really consider myself trans.  I'm just a guy who had to fix his hormones and bits.   

But, that's what is right for me.  Just another example of how it isn't a one size fits all thing.  As long as you're true to you, then nothin else matters


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Quote from: Dena on June 21, 2017, 02:20:40 PM

The second link is "the transition channel" where a gender therapist will help you explore your feelings. Feel free to ask questions as many on the site have resolved similar issues and will be glad to help.

I can't thank you enough for this.
Just watching some of her videos has helped me re-affirm my decision to explore this during a time of increasing doubt about all my feelings being real or "valid"... Now I definitely believe I *need* to at least ask my generalist (once I get home and get my new one... again... been through 4 in the past year. Yay, Army!) about seeing a specialized gender therapist or someone who has experience in the department.

onlytwin, you sound quite a lot like me. I dealt a lot with fluctuating dysphoria in the several years leading up to my realization. I kept pushing it back down and trying to "be properly female." It's sad how I could look in the mirror and realize that I actually looked nice with makeup, feminine clothing, but felt so disconnected from myself and wrong in some way I couldn't define at the same time.

My narrative isn't exactly standard, either; though honestly the "standard narrative" simply isn't representative of all people. I suppose some might have considered me a tomboy, as I tended to wear mostly unisex tees and loose shorts or jeans in grade school, detested dresses, and liked to play video games and collect Pokemon cards, but I was never sporty and certainly didn't know I was a boy from early on--though I do remember thinking it was stupid my mother wouldn't let me play a video game my brother hand played at my age because he was a boy and I wasn't. My hair was always very long, as well (partly because my mother didn't want me to cut it). I dealt with abuse in childhood as well, which I think made it harder to come to terms with myself.

And I relate very well to that fake feeling you're talking about. As a teenager years back, the dysphoria would come in strange little waves. I'd look in the mirror sometimes and I was afraid I looked like a boy trying to be a girl. I was trying to shove all that back down and just be a girl like I was "supposed to." I'm sure others just saw a girl, and they do still see me as female now, but I could see it and feel it. Looking back at most pictures of myself of middle school onward now, I see a boy who is doing a very good job at looking female to others but isn't fooling himself so well.

I'd say definitely don't just choke it back down, but I wouldn't just jump right on hormones, either. Hormone level testing isn't necessary now, really, but they will likely test them if you ever do decide to pursue hormone therapy to get a feel for your baseline levels--along with a lot of other general testing to ensure you're healthy. I'm currently talking to a therapist to process all of this and help me determine next steps, which I think is really helpful; that might be a route to take, a middle road between immediate medical intervention and just trying to ignore it.

BUT: Like Elis said, there's no one way to be trans. What you're going through is no less valid than what anyone else is. You don't have to compare yourself to others in their dysphoria, though it's certainly nice to take comfort in knowing others have felt similarly. 

Thanks, all. I've been trying to find the reference but I'm sure I've seen mentions of people taking hormones as a way of testing out how they feel, in an "am I more myself with androgens?" way (or female hormones, according to the case). It wasn't for as long as a month, or meant to be a definitive step. Is this unheard of?

The dysphoria's quieter just now - which is a relief in one way, as I was beginning to feel outright dissociated - but also more confusing. With packer still feels better than without. And there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern to when it kicks into high gear and when it doesn't.

I believe I've read that some people do a trial run of hormones to test out how they feel, but that's kind of a gamble.

Because for many trans guys, it takes anywhere from four months to more than a year to start looking definitively male, and there's no way of knowing how T will affect you personally. So hypothetically, you could be doing a "trial run" of T for a year or more before you can really tell if you like your appearance better the more masculine it is.

On the other hand, some guys experience changes rapidly, and look and sound totally male by three months or less. In that case though, if you realized that you DIDN'T like the changes, some of them would already be permanent.

Furthermore, some guys experience mood/personality changes (positive or negative) on T, and some don't. It can be hard to tell if the T is making you feel differently, or if it's living as a man that's doing it, or if it's being true to yourself, or a combination of all these things.

I agree that seeing a gender therapist will probably help you, but my other recommendation is to do whatever you can to look as masculine as possible in private and see how it makes you feel to see yourself that way. You've already got the packer. A binder would probably be extremely helpful to gauge how you feel.

For me, whenever I start to doubt my transition or try to imagine that I could be happy as a woman, I then put my binder on, a tee-shirt or button-down that makes my body look masculine, etc, and suddenly I'm so much happier with the reflection looking back at me. It looks RIGHT, and it once again confirms that I am indeed trans and that changing my physicality is the best decision for me.

Good luck!

Quote from: onlytwin on June 22, 2017, 05:13:56 PM
Thanks, all. I've been trying to find the reference but I'm sure I've seen mentions of people taking hormones as a way of testing out how they feel, in an "am I more myself with androgens?" way (or female hormones, according to the case). It wasn't for as long as a month, or meant to be a definitive step. Is this unheard of?

The dysphoria's quieter just now - which is a relief in one way, as I was beginning to feel outright dissociated - but also more confusing. With packer still feels better than without. And there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern to when it kicks into high gear and when it doesn't.

Dysphoria isn't always constant for me, either. I think that's normal, though. I definitely understand the confused feeling; it leads to that illogical fear of "not being trans enough" for me at times. I'm similar in that even when I'm not experiencing as much dysphoria, it still feels much better to wear a binder than not.

I know I've heard people say that they do feel more themselves on hormones. I don't know about being prescribed testosterone for really short-term trial period use, though. There's no saying how testosterone will affect your body; a couple weeks might not be enough for it to build to a level that allows you to assess if it will help you feel more yourself--definitely not long enough for it to build to typical biological male level--and there's also no saying your body won't react in some irreversible way sooner than most individuals' bodies do. That's why its generally not advised to go on hormones without careful consideration.

No one here can tell you what to do; it's just important to weigh all the pros and cons, and know you don't have to make these decisions right away.

For MTFs, what reduces the dysphoria is the blocker drug. The presence of testosterone is the problem. I would expect for a FTM, anything that reduces estrogen levels would have a similar effect. Members have complained that if their T levels are low, they feel dysphoria and if their T levels are excessively high so they convert T to E, again they feel dysphoria. There are estrogen blockers used for teens but from what I understand, they are somewhat expensive and as T is sufficient to do the job, the drugs aren't normally given to adults.

Bacon, one of the things that confuses me is that women's clothing generally feels fine - to the point where I could see myself continuing to wear it even after a transition. Wanting to be a male while being biofemale is hard enough to get my brain fully around, but being biofemale and wanting to be male-bodied but in drag?

Seth James - that's just it: that feeling of how can I be trans if the dysphoria isn't constant? As if having constant dysphoria would somehow be an improvement.

Dena - thanks, that makes sense.

Practical question: are binders made to target different cup sizes? When I've tried improvising bindings, I can just about squash down to around c-cup prominence, and while the reduction feels right, it's hard to make physically comfortable.

Quote from: onlytwin on June 22, 2017, 09:55:19 PM
Practical question: are binders made to target different cup sizes? When I've tried improvising bindings, I can just about squash down to around c-cup prominence, and while the reduction feels right, it's hard to make physically comfortable.

Not as familiar with other binders, but gc2b binders use your shoulder width and bust measurement. The front is made with stiff material that resists stretching and works really well. The site people are very friendly and will help you try to decide on a size if you're unsure, and will take returns and find you a different size if it doesn't work, so they're a good choice. They also have tank top length ones that will tuck into your pants for extra security if you think that will help.

Quote from: onlytwin on June 22, 2017, 09:55:19 PM

Practical question: are binders made to target different cup sizes? When I've tried improvising bindings, I can just about squash down to around c-cup prominence, and while the reduction feels right, it's hard to make physically comfortable.

Quote from: seth.james on June 22, 2017, 10:11:24 PM
Not as familiar with other binders, but gc2b binders use your shoulder width and bust measurement. The front is made with stiff material that resists stretching and works really well. The site people are very friendly and will help you try to decide on a size if you're unsure, and will take returns and find you a different size if it doesn't work, so they're a good choice. They also have tank top length ones that will tuck into your pants for extra security if you think that will help.

Some people wouldn't advise the route I took because there was so much uncertainty with non-name brand binders, but what I did (and am still doing) was an amazon test-run of several different styles of binders that were cheaper, but still considered safe (most of them designed for cosplayers). Yeah, alot of them came from china, so you have to be *really* careful when you're measuring and make absolutely sure that you get the right size, following the company's chart below the item rather than the amazon one next to it (if that makes sense.. usually the company puts one in the description if its not the same as amazon's). I've tried two different front clasp, one side clasp, and one front-half zipper, just trying to gauge what I like the feel of. Currently, my favourites are the front clasp ones- they have three rows to be able to adjust a bit for size, and the clasps are easily accessible, unlike the one with the side clasps. I think the side one gets a little bit more bind, but the front ones are more comfortable- to me. They key is breathable, elastic fabric. Some people don't like clasp binders because they feel like it can constrict their breathing, but I haven't ever had issues with it. One of my front clasps is the one I use at the gym (its more like a tight sports bra, than a binder, though). Whatever you do, with binders, make sure they fit, and they shouldn't cause pain. Most companies will tell you where you need to measure, and what measurements go with which size. I've never seen them correspond to a cup-size though... But then again I've never looked at the name brand ones like GC2B and Underworks. There's a whole board (I think, may just be thread) for binders here, and that may help a little more.
And don't bind with an ace bandage or other cloth not made for the purpose. Made that mistake myself. That 'stuff' will 'eff' you up for a while, if you get what I mean. The dysphoria sucks, I know, but you will hate life even more, for longer than it would take for a proper binder to get through the mail, if you hurt yourself using some of those 'tricks.'

I don't mess around with binders personally.  I just use underworld and be done with it.  I did however learn that you shouldn't bind down.  You should bind your chest in/flat. 

And I really don't recommend the trial run of hormones.  Come from ftm the transition of your bottom growth is almost immediate and is most definitely permanent.  Other things are hit or miss as far as the length of time.  My voice was comfortable around 6 months.  But that was do in part to my own work alongside the T.  I knew a guy who had some facial hair within 3 months and I'm past a year and still fighting to get mine to thicken out. 

I understand the need for trial...but this is something that is not really designed for it.  Most of these changes are permanent. 


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I generally ascribe to the adage of "If you think you are trans, you are". Cis people don't wonder, trans people do.

Somewhat like you, I never felt my GD was so overwhelming I NEEDED to do something about it . I've been told by others who were that way how lucky I am that I found a way to manage my GD without transitioning.

I know I am somewhere "On the spectrum". Between coming to realize I needed to take the trans-beast on for real, finding a TG support group, and in time therapy and HRT, I know for sure I am lot more then the "just a CD" I hoped I could manage to be.

Recently, sort of, I came to realize that if I try to think of myself as Non-Binary I wouldn't drive myself as crazy wondering about what I might need to do next. There is no rule book for being trans. We all muct fumble our way around in the pre-dawn light for ways to manage our GD. There will always be another tomorrow, which may lead to having find another way. Life is all about change, or transition.

You need to sort out for yourself just where on the spectrum you are today and what you need to do manage your particular flavor of GD. What works now may not in the future. In the future the GD just may not be an issue at all. Or, it can be the only issue that consumes your life.

Being that trans is not something I would wish upon anyone.

Thanks again, all.

I did some shopping around for binders and such, and I'll try out more to see how it feels and what I make of it. And find a gender therapist.

I'm better for the feedback, and thankfully past the point where it felt like I might have a full freakout in the middle of a social setting, streaming at my breasts or tearing at a phantom penis, though I can still hear both humming on in the background.

I'm still not sure why this kicked in so hard just now, or what to do in the longer term. But I don't feel like I'm coming apart, and wherever it goes next, I think I'm actually glad of it.

Quote from: onlytwin on June 21, 2017, 01:45:20 PM
First time posting, so apologies for any formatting problems, wrong use of tags, etc.

I've had recurring dysphoria since before puberty, but it seems to fluctuate. How much that's actually fluctuation as such and how much it's me pressing down on it, though, I'm not sure.

It's not so much a gender role problem - I've found a reasonable amount of leeway for "honorary guy" status, so it's not a "masculine personality" driven thing. I think.

The main thing - and right now it's going through a particularly bad patch - is my body feels wrong. (I tried packing and it felt better. And the worst I remember it being before was when I first grew breasts.)

But it also makes me feel wrong - fake - socially, having people relate to me as if I'm clearly, unquestionably, female. Which physically there's no reason for people to think I'm not: I'm big-busted with child-bearing hips. (People who aren't paying full attention still sometimes default to thinking I'm a guy, but they usually change that in a rush of apologies at a second look.)

Just to confuse things further, I seem to be missing a lot of things that seem like standard FTM narrative. I was not particularly tomboyish growing up, and never sporty. I don't have strong urges to dress in "male" clothing or get "male" hairstyles. The only group of people that make me reliably feel like "that's who I want to be" are male-bodied cross-dressers (thanks, brain).

But I feel - wrong. And it never quite stops. So what are the options? Get hormone levels tested? Do a trial-run on T? Just choke it back down again? I realize this probably sounds like a luxury problem to people who full on can't imagine any option other than transitioning, but it's still hard to take, and it's hard to tell what will set it off again.

So I know EXACTLY how you feel. Since 17 I've been in and out of presenting masculine and then going back to feminine, as your say, it fluctuates. It literally comes in waves, and every time it's stronger and the period lasts longer.

I know it's cliche but Therapy actually really helped me...My therapist didn't have some magical answer or anything like that, but after one session I was able to see where she was coming from and I was able to analyse things, find repressed situations, and think clearly about how I wanted to go forward.

I believe if I hadn't gone to therapy I would still be stuck continuously completing the cycle....But now I'm only about 2 weeks away from starting hormone replacement.

If you can't afford therapy or aren't really a fan, (or the only kind of therapists in your area are old geezers who want to throw conversion BS your way), just try meditating on it, if that makes sense?

Think back to your earliest dysphoria, and then think even further to see if you can uncover anything deeper, and then just keep going and eventually you'll just randomly have a situation pop into your head and you'll be like..."OH YEAH...THAT WAS A THING."

You can also try making a spreadsheet of feminine vs masculine (that's what I did before I went to therapy), essentially to make a list of pros and cons, essentially of how you feel feminine vs how you feel masculine and break it down to Relationships, Fears, Future, Dysphoria, Self Esteem, etc...Just as many categories as you can cover, and it will actually really help.

I will actually share a "view" only version of it here, to help you out.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cvCNhl_I0UVua_nbS5rAII_FRG3L6izb6c9cGvAdEls/edit?usp=sharing

Thank you for sharing the spreadsheet model, that's a very clear way to break things down.

I am seeing a therapist, who is helpful with other issues and has been supportive when this came up, but they're not specialized in this area, so I am looking for someone to see about the gender identity issues in particular.

Quote from: seth.james on June 22, 2017, 05:06:30 PM
onlytwin, you sound quite a lot like me. I dealt a lot with fluctuating dysphoria in the several years leading up to my realization. I kept pushing it back down and trying to "be properly female." It's sad how I could look in the mirror and realize that I actually looked nice with makeup, feminine clothing, but felt so disconnected from myself and wrong in some way I couldn't define at the same time.

My narrative isn't exactly standard, either; though honestly the "standard narrative" simply isn't representative of all people. I suppose some might have considered me a tomboy, as I tended to wear mostly unisex tees and loose shorts or jeans in grade school, detested dresses, and liked to play video games and collect Pokemon cards, but I was never sporty and certainly didn't know I was a boy from early on--though I do remember thinking it was stupid my mother wouldn't let me play a video game my brother hand played at my age because he was a boy and I wasn't. My hair was always very long, as well (partly because my mother didn't want me to cut it). I dealt with abuse in childhood as well, which I think made it harder to come to terms with myself.

And I relate very well to that fake feeling you're talking about. As a teenager years back, the dysphoria would come in strange little waves. I'd look in the mirror sometimes and I was afraid I looked like a boy trying to be a girl. I was trying to shove all that back down and just be a girl like I was "supposed to." I'm sure others just saw a girl, and they do still see me as female now, but I could see it and feel it. Looking back at most pictures of myself of middle school onward now, I see a boy who is doing a very good job at looking female to others but isn't fooling himself so well.

I'd say definitely don't just choke it back down, but I wouldn't just jump right on hormones, either. Hormone level testing isn't necessary now, really, but they will likely test them if you ever do decide to pursue hormone therapy to get a feel for your baseline levels--along with a lot of other general testing to ensure you're healthy. I'm currently talking to a therapist to process all of this and help me determine next steps, which I think is really helpful; that might be a route to take, a middle road between immediate medical intervention and just trying to ignore it.

BUT: Like Elis said, there's no one way to be trans. What you're going through is no less valid than what anyone else is. You don't have to compare yourself to others in their dysphoria, though it's certainly nice to take comfort in knowing others have felt similarly. 

Seth James,

Welcome to the site. Kinda late I know but I wanted to do it officially.

Thanks for sharing and showing support. Let us all know if you have any questions. On to some specifics.

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