Quote from: KarynMcD on June 23, 2017, 05:53:12 AM
They kind of expect everybody to have a stomach.
The density would also be similar.

I don't buy it. Above a certain weight - a weight that isn't even that high, fat deposits on people's bodies differently in accordance to their unique genetics. If it's sensitive enough to register a penis, then the sheer unpredicable  variability of fat deposits on people's bodies would set it off. Oh but they can tell the difference then funnily enough. It sounds like they could damn well see on the full body scanner that this is the person's genitalia and out of sheer malice wanted to humiliate the OP. 

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 22, 2017, 06:27:19 PM
And that's your prerogative. But it doesn't change the fact that you'll keep revisiting the issue if this is how you handle these situations. Reality is what it is and your being indignant in the face of it won't change a thing. It reminds me of an old expression. If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. 

I was reflecting on your comments throughout today.  I won't press the point any further because I doubt we are going to agree but your post still seems wrong to me.

It reminds me of a men's rights activist telling a young woman that 'if she is going to go out dressed in short skirts, she can expect to be harassed by men.  If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.'

Whilst both statements are true, they shift the focus off the inequality and place blame on the victim.  Instead of emphasizing the need for systemic change and discussing means to make it happen, they focus blame on the person who has suffered the indignity.

In my mind, women and girls are entitled to dress however they are comfortable (provided basic decency is met).  The focus of critcism should be on the patriarchial legacies that objectify female bodies, not slut-shaming the women or girls who live with it.

Similarly, I believe transgender passengers are entitled to retain their privacy and not disclose their transgender status in front of their business colleagues or other travellers.  I believe transgender passengers should not be unncessarily singled out for invasive searches by a machine that does not understand  what it means to be trans.  The focus of criticism should be on improving the system so that trans people are treated with dignity and respect.

Quote from: staciM on June 22, 2017, 03:07:04 PM
Sounds "heroic"...but you have absolutely zero choice in the matter unless you wish to not travel.... and if you've put up some stink to that point you probably wouldn't even have that as an easy out option.

You don't know me. They could jail me and wouldn't submit. I won't be violated, not without a fight. I'm no ones slave or subject.


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Quote from: JMJW on June 23, 2017, 06:01:07 AM
I don't buy it. Above a certain weight - a weight that isn't even that high, fat deposits on people's bodies differently in accordance to their unique genetics. If it's sensitive enough to register a penis, then the sheer unpredicable  variability of fat deposits on people's bodies would set it off. Oh but they can tell the difference then funnily enough. It sounds like they could damn well see on the full body scanner that this is the person's genitalia and out of sheer malice wanted to humiliate the OP.

Yup


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It's regrettable that passenger screening is necessary to prevent some pretty awful people from doing some pretty horrible things to the rest of us.  I travel a lot overseas in my work, and as someone physically transitioning I am often anxious passing through the security points.  So far the extent of things has been brushing across my breasts to figure out what's going on there, as I present (more or less) male for now.  When I start presenting female, I can expect issues over the penis; I'm not looking forward to that.  But I do accept the necessity of the screening, and I have been impressed in recent years with obvious efforts by TSA to improve efficiency and to treat all passengers with respect.  I can't comment about the situation outside the U.S. at specific airports, but I support the security screening regime, while always happy for additional improvements. 

Quote from: JMJW on June 23, 2017, 06:01:07 AM
I don't buy it. Above a certain weight - a weight that isn't even that high, fat deposits on people's bodies differently in accordance to their unique genetics.

Well, after some research, it seems if you have excessive fat, you will get a pat down.
http://born2lbfat.com/tsa-precheck-might-reduce-fat-pat-downs/

Quote from: KarynMcD on June 23, 2017, 10:32:45 AM
Well, after some research, it seems if you have excessive fat, you will get a pat down.
http://born2lbfat.com/tsa-precheck-might-reduce-fat-pat-downs/

Do fat people have to strip, like the OP?   

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 23, 2017, 03:07:50 AM

Quote from: Dena on June 22, 2017, 06:34:53 PM
There have been posts about people informing the security staff before stepping into the scanner. If you do that, they set the scanner to expect the unexpected and you shouldn't need the pat down. If they have to guess at the setting, your going to get a pat down. If you don't want everybody to hear, make a card informing them of this and give it to the security personal before stepping into the scanner.

All the machines I have seen only have two buttons - male and female. Where have you seen AIT scanners that the operators can custom configure? Were these in Europe or North America?  I have never seen a configurable one at any airport?

I have also never seen the little blue cards anywhere outside of the USA.  When did you see these at Heathrow?


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Hope this helps:

Quote from: Eva Marie on August 04, 2015, 09:33:19 AM
I am pre-op MTF with a female name and an F on my drivers license, and I have flown a few times.

On most of those trips I got through getting scanned with no issues. Twice I triggered the "anomaly" detector.

The first time that happened the TSA lady told me that the detector had detected an anomaly in my crotch area so I immediately told her that I am transgender. She got a look of disgust on her face, redirected me back into the scanner, and then proceed to yell "MALE" at the hapless agent running the scan machine loud enough for every one else around to hear.

Needless to say - that was NOT a fun experience.

I found out that there is a little blue TSA card you can print and you can write health reasons that might affect the security search. I printed one of those cards out and wrote TRANSGENDER on it in big block letters.

The next time I went through TSA and stepped into the scanner I held the card up to the TSA guy running the scanner and he said "roger that" and he apparently pushed the right button. Then my boobs got groped by female TSA agent, and I was directed to get a hand swab at the bomb detection thing afterward. I don't know if the extra scrutiny was because of the card or whether it was a random thing.

While the second experience wasn't exemplary it was far better than the first experience.

I would suggest that all trans people traveling by air print out one of those cards before running the TSA gamut and write TRANSGENDER on it.

Since we can't put links in posts here just search for "tsa disability health card" and you'll find the .pdf.

The thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,193371.msg1724136.html#msg1724136

The card (PDF): https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/disability_notification_card_508.pdf

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 23, 2017, 06:44:17 AM
I was reflecting on your comments throughout today.  I won't press the point any further because I doubt we are going to agree but your post still seems wrong to me.

It reminds me of a men's rights activist telling a young woman that 'if she is going to go out dressed in short skirts, she can expect to be harassed by men.  If you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.'

Whilst both statements are true, they shift the focus off the inequality and place blame on the victim.  Instead of emphasizing the need for systemic change and discussing means to make it happen, they focus blame on the person who has suffered the indignity.

In my mind, women and girls are entitled to dress however they are comfortable (provided basic decency is met).  The focus of critcism should be on the patriarchial legacies that objectify female bodies, not slut-shaming the women or girls who live with it.

Similarly, I believe transgender passengers are entitled to retain their privacy and not disclose their transgender status in front of their business colleagues or other travellers.  I believe transgender passengers should not be unncessarily singled out for invasive searches by a machine that does not understand  what it means to be trans.  The focus of criticism should be on improving the system so that trans people are treated with dignity and respect.

Well....sorry you didn't care for my opinion. I'm a pragmatic woman and do workarounds to avoid problems. I'm not a martyr, not an advocate and don't have a victim mentality. Consequently, I get through life with a minimum of confrontation.

The easiest way to do the notification to the TSA personnel handling screening is to use the TSA Medical Notification Card.

https://www.tsa.gov/sites/default/files/disability_notification_card_508.pdf

In the 'condition' field just put "TRANSGENDER PERSON".  I carry a laminated version and hand it to the scan operator when flagged.  They should handle it quietly and discretely, per their internal policy.

Oh, it sounds MUCH better when you say it! 

Hugs, Devlyn

When I was leaving Japan from a trip many years ago I had to stand in these 2 boxes while someone looked up my skirt. I was already a post op so I wasn't worried about anything being found but it sucked and it was stupid.


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Reality is...the TSA sucks for everyone. Indignancies abound for Cis, Trans and the Diabled alike. Considering it's such a vast beaurcracy, and given that were unlikely to change it without much consternation and effort, it's nice to be able to go in forearmed. Things like the link that Michelle posted up are awesome and give real value to threads like this. Sooooo thanks, to those who've posted up viable solutions. Cool, helpful stuff!

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 23, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
I'm a pragmatic woman and do workarounds to avoid problems. I'm not a martyr, not an advocate and don't have a victim mentality. Consequently, I get through life with a minimum of confrontation.

Amen sister.

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 23, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
I'm a pragmatic woman and do workarounds to avoid problems. I'm not a martyr, not an advocate and don't have a victim mentality. Consequently, I get through life with a minimum of confrontation.

That,s exactly how I try to live. Very rarely do I have a problem.

Quote from: JMJW on June 23, 2017, 04:23:50 AM
If these machines are so sensitive then how do people of different weight go through without setting off the alarm? It will register a penis but won't pick up a beer gut?   

Quote from: KarynMcD on June 23, 2017, 10:32:45 AM
Well, after some research, it seems if you have excessive fat, you will get a pat down.
http://born2lbfat.com/tsa-precheck-might-reduce-fat-pat-downs/

Actually they do. My single experience with one detected a below the waist tummy that wasn't that big and my oversized shoulders. I am 6'2" and was about 180 pounds at the time so I wasn't overweight. A female agent checked me out so I assume the woman button was pressed on the machine. After a little poking in public, I was pronounced fit to travel and was sent to wait for my plane to board.

Quote from: Claire_Sydney on June 23, 2017, 03:07:50 AM
All the machines I have seen only have two buttons - male and female. Where have you seen AIT scanners that the operators can custom configure? Were these in Europe or North America?  I have never seen a configurable one at any airport?

If they are aware of the discrepancy in advance, they have some latitude in interpreting the results. Other members have been waved through inspection with the machine detecting the difference because they were warned in advance that there might be a problem. It boils down to if you never want to go through the machine or inspection, travel by train, car or boat.

Full disclosure can only enhance your outcome. If you go in with an "I have rights" attitude, someone is going to display an "I'm in control" attitude. Particularly since the folks that do these jobs aren't necessarily the most enlightened or erudite individuals you're going to encounter. They have a difficult job to perform and deal with tons of variables every day,. For me its easier to give those things to Caesar.....that are Caesars. I just want to get where I'm going with the least amount of hassle I can. Traveling is a trial without any added nuisance. I'll pick my battles and frankly, for me, this is no place to reinvent the wheel.

The unfortunate thing its that doesn't make you safer, it just makes life difficult for everyone for no good reason. Just the usual politics and money.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/01/tsa-business-security-theater-not-security/357599/

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150602/05474131176/study-tsas-security-theater-troupes-missed-95-smuggled-weapons-explosives.shtml

I'm not going to fight over it as I've got other priorities in life. I'll just do whatever I have to to get through it with a minimum of fuss, though it's all getting to the point I'm cutting out more countries from my travel plans.

You couldn't pay me to go through a full body x ray scanner. Those things give you cancer.

Quote from: jentay1367 on June 23, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
Well....sorry you didn't care for my opinion. I'm a pragmatic woman and do workarounds to avoid problems. I'm not a martyr, not an advocate and don't have a victim mentality. Consequently, I get through life with a minimum of confrontation.

Uh-huh. A pragmatic woman who feels the need to jump into conversations and condescendingly demand that everyone else adopt the same balance of priorities between privacy and dignity.

I choose not to disclose in public places and especially not in front of my business colleagues. I don't believe anyone should be treated in an undignified manner because of that.

You seem to think everyone should have the same priorities and deal with things just like you do.

I don't have a victim mentality either. But I'm capable of noticing imperfect processes that unfairly humiliate transgender travellers and calling them out as problematic.

How frequently do you travel internationally? How often do you travel through Heathrow T5? Do you think that the frequency of travel through overseas airports might be more of a factor of whether you have have a bad experience than when you choose to disclose?

There is a huge difference between saying

"I travel a bit too... here's how I deal with things... it works well for me...perhaps it might help you too,"

And saying

"You must do things my way. You asked for it. Your way of doing things is 'not acceptable'. If you had done things my way, your complaint would be legitimate."

One of those is supportive. The other is the height of paternalistic arrogance.