Quote from: Sarah on February 15, 2008, 09:55:19 PM
This is terrible.
They are taking one tragedy and making it into another.
Have you seen American History X?
Just because someone is a bigot now, and does a horrible thing, doesn't mean they are doomed for the rest of their life.
This kid could change.
They should not be charging him as an adult.
That is terrible.
He is a child.
He could spend life in prison for somthing he has done as a kid.
They don't care about justice, they care about vengance.
This is rediculous.
In 20 years or less this kid could easily learn the error of his ways, be easily remoresfull and want to help the world and change things.
There is no reason to damn him for one mistake.
This is an oppurtunity to help him learn and others arround him.
Young teenagers are not mature adults.
They are kids, going through an already traumatic time under the influence of all sorts of forces including hormones, family preasures, world preasures, etc.
Many kill themselves.
This is rediculous to be treating this like an adult case.
That's so mean to be taking this kids life away for one mistake.
Because that's what they are doing.
He will be institutionalized for the rest of his life.
So that's two murders that may be comited.
What a rediculous waste.
I hope they do the right thing.
Sara
Absolutely Sarah. People commit crimes like these out of hatred born of fear born of ignorance. As you say - people can and do change. Though I kinda need to qualify the "Young Teenagers are not Mature Adults" - perhaps not, but they do understand cause and effect, making them, from an understanding POV at least, adult.
Your point about the pressures kids face though is really valid - more and moreso today with absent or abusive parents, basically being raised by their peer-groups. It's kinda a return to a pack mentality almost.
He does need to be removed from society though to be rehabilitated. Though how effective prisons and juvenile detention centres are at that is ... There the pack mentality rules supreme, usually.
Posted on: 17 February 2008, 01:50:02
Quote from: mara on February 16, 2008, 02:04:30 PM
BUT humans as a whole society, have the power to pull the trigger, not a single one of us do, but the whole of us do, I think thats the idea behind it anyways isnt it???
Humans are no better as a group than as individuals - in fact, they are usually worse, because a mob mentality tends to rule.
I'm a firm believer in anarchism and direct democracy, but that only comes at the end of a more enlightened society brought about by long-term education. Ignorance is seen as the root of all evil in Buddhism, from what I understand, because that is what gives rise to fear and hatred and all the rest. This kid was raised in ignorance by his parents, who were raised in ignorance by theirs, etc. Who knows what kind of a person I might have turned out had my parents been different people - or not there, for that matter, so that I had to rely on an immature, ignorant peer group for support and education?
The whole approach we have of retributive punishment is counter-productive. It does nothing but turn wolves into bigger wolves, all the while costing us money. And it stains our own souls in the process, because an eye for an eye just leaves everybody blind.
Posted on: 17 February 2008, 01:59:59
Quote from: mara on February 16, 2008, 03:02:33 PM
Very little comes of war???
your right, things are able to stay the same, were you around for WW1, WW2, were you there when pearl harbor was bombed??
Yeah, alot does come of war. War is probably the biggest force for change there is for society. WW1 destroyed the empires of Europe, WW2 started the Age of America.
That doesn't mean it's a good thing.
Quote
The world isnt as safe as it seems, it is much more fragile of a place than you think..
The modern age was birthed in conquest and colonisation and slavery. From the Dutch and Spanish who initially started pushing out into South America and Africa to the Brittish who just rolled over everybody and everything else, that is where our modern problems started, because in most cases the local populations were nothing more than slave resources, intentionally left illiterate or under-educated so they wouldn't be able to resist while their countries were strip-mined. That's where all the economic and social disparities come from. That's where all the ill will was born.
It was made infinitely worse though during the 20th century. First the Cold War, and after that Globalisation has made the gap between the rich and poor countries of the world all but unbridgable, and in the meantime Western Culture is marketed to the world so agressively that you can't not expect a backlash.
QuoteAlso I hope you know we dont go and STEAL the oil, we set iraq up in the world economy, to SELL its oil.
Sadly NOT the case. 100% foreign ownership is allowed of Iraqi assets, and multinationals are allowed to remove ALL of their profit from the country, so there is no reason or mechanism for them to improve the country beyond the minimum they need to make money.
Posted on: 17 February 2008, 02:28:42
Quote from: mara on February 16, 2008, 03:47:14 PM
Sadams plan was simple, sell very little oil to keep the country going, and not to the US or UK or allies.
...
he repressed the people of the current country, made them suffer, and denied them rights, after all it is the peoples oil, not his.
Yep. He repressed and killed his own people, denied them their rights to free speech, free movement, free anything. Yet at the same time, he was the primary force for modernization of the country after the British Mandate there (pattern?) and the subsequent Hashemite rule.
From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_HusseinQuote
Saddam established and controlled the "National Campaign for the Eradication of Illiteracy" and the campaign for "Compulsory Free Education in Iraq," and largely under his auspices, the government established universal free schooling up to the highest education levels; hundreds of thousands learned to read in the years following the initiation of the program. The government also supported families of soldiers, granted free hospitalization to everyone, and gave subsidies to farmers. Iraq created one of the most modernized public-health systems in the Middle East, earning Saddam an award from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO
I'm not defending him, I'm just saying not everything is as black and white. America couldn't care less about Saddam Hussein killing Kurds in the North or oppressing his own people - until he invaded Kuwait and threatened their oil interests. After the gulf war, Iraq was left to rot - until Saddam tried to restart the country's economy by selling oil in Euros rather than Dollars...
Posted on: 17 February 2008, 02:41:04
I'll shut up now.
