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My mom is worried about the fact that I am a black male

Started by Brandon, August 06, 2017, 04:07:08 AM

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Kylo

It might help you to study body language and adopt certain kinds of body language when out and about that mean you aren't giving off defensive or aggressive signals that could lead to attracting the wrong sort of attention. I was unwittingly giving out a lot of hostility in the past through body language because I was legitimately feeling threatened just being outside and near others - it was obvious to them but not to me, even though I had no actual hostile intentions. And they would notice and comment on it, or follow me around stores until I left. The "head down" posture for example, which I was doing because I didn't want to look at people or into their eyes doubles for some as the sort of gesture people pull when up to no good. You want to avoid that, so you could look into how body language works for you and how to give out good vibes when dealing with people. And I think you'll have better luck if you know how to make it work for you.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Brandon

Quote from: DawnOday on August 06, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
My Goddaughter is black. She is also one of the most beautiful people I know. Not physically, although she is stunning. But her heart is beautiful. I met her mother 35 years ago and we have been close ever since. I honestly don't see what the fear is. On top of your being black you have an alternative lifestyle. Unfortunately there are haters of all stripes. I have seen the racial remarks to her and I know them to be untrue but hurtful none the less. But I have also seen it only makes her stronger.  Depend on your inner strength. I am impressed by your quote and so glad you still feel that way. keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah   You will break down barriers. Maybe a little slower than you desire but it will happen. More than luck I wish you a happy fulfilled life as the person you have struggled to be. Hey, Jesus more than likely had dark skin too. For sure he didn't have blond hair and blue eyes.

All the best
Dawn

I don't believe Jesus had blonde hair and blue eyes either lol, I am glad you know the truth. I consider myself a very strong person for someone that is a young adult I been through alot but ike your daughter all that is has done for me is make me stronger, had I not gone through what I have been through, I wouldn't be the man I am today, I have grown tremendously, ah and yes I still love that quote and I still believe it but perhaps you are righ maybe I shouldn't fear so much. I am a smart person and as I have stated I do try to put myself in smart situations and not dumb ones.
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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Raell

Brandon, your mother is correct. Being black is dangerous, but being a black male is the most dangerous.

One black transmale said that police suddenly became hostile to her the moment she started presenting as male. One white transmale said that suddenly mothers were hiding their children if he forgot he was presenting as male and smiled at a baby.

White people who say that if you obey the rules you'll be OK are only speaking from their white privilege bubble.
Even looking "ethnic" can get you in trouble, and I constantly read about black people who are shot for simply being black, with police body cams now showing them planting drugs and guns on their victims.

My nephew, who has dark hair and Latino features was pulled over for "speeding" while driving in the south and accused and harassed by the officer. My nephew is an upper class concert pianist, but it didn't matter.
But it does no good to tell white people that..they are blind to their privilege and usually only become defensive and angry.

But if you can't find a black therapist, that can't be helped, unless maybe you can do a google search to find someone and are willing to travel.

My ex-husband is white, 6' 1", handsome, fit, from a wealthy background, an ex-Navy and airline pilot, and the revered oldest son in his Republican family, yet last year he casually told me he was going to transition to present as nonbinary female. He had never even hinted at such tendencies when we were together, even when I asked him directly.

He was off-hand and casual about it, talking like all there is to being female is learning to apply make up and buying cool clothing. None of my warnings have made the slightest impression on him, but I guess he'll find out for himself what will happen to his life of white male privilege. He'll still be tall, fit, and white, but my guess is he'll get a dim welcome from his relatives and current wife.

But I can't tell him anything. He thinks it's all fun and games, because up until now, everyone has honored him.
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elkie-t

I learned one trick and it saved my ass from a ticket (or worse) a couple of times. When you see lights behind your car, first thing turn the lights in the salon on, then keep your hands on the wheel. When officer sees you (and anybody else inside the car, or lack of anybody as usually is the case), he approaches you easier and it puts him in a better mood. Don't admit speeding, but be totally polite and friendly towards the officer. I got a few warnings this way instead of ...


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Brandon

Quote from: Raell on August 06, 2017, 08:55:43 PM
Brandon, your mother is correct. Being black is dangerous, but being a black male is the most dangerous.

One black transmale said that police suddenly became hostile to her the moment she started presenting as male. One white transmale said that suddenly mothers were hiding their children if he forgot he was presenting as male and smiled at a baby.

White people who say that if you obey the rules you'll be OK are only speaking from their white privilege bubble.
Even looking "ethnic" can get you in trouble, and I constantly read about black people who are shot for simply being black, with police body cams now showing them planting drugs and guns on their victims.

My nephew, who has dark hair and Latino features was pulled over for "speeding" while driving in the south and accused and harassed by the officer. My nephew is an upper class concert pianist, but it didn't matter.
But it does no good to tell white people that..they are blind to their privilege and usually only become defensive and angry.

But if you can't find a black therapist, that can't be helped, unless maybe you can do a google search to find someone and are willing to travel.

My ex-husband is white, 6' 1", handsome, fit, from a wealthy background, an ex-Navy and airline pilot, and the revered oldest son in his Republican family, yet last year he casually told me he was going to transition to present as nonbinary female. He had never even hinted at such tendencies when we were together, even when I asked him directly.

He was off-hand and casual about it, talking like all there is to being female is learning to apply make up and buying cool clothing. None of my warnings have made the slightest impression on him, but I guess he'll find out for himself what will happen to his life of white male privilege. He'll still be tall, fit, and white, but my guess is he'll get a dim welcome from his relatives and current wife.

But I can't tell him anything. He thinks it's all fun and games, because up until now, everyone has honored him.

See you get it, I don't think people realize white privilege exist and then you have people who know it exist but ignore it, I don't agree with follow all rules and you be safe, obviously I will follow all rules and instructions but it still doesn't change the fact that anything can happen. Yes even being, not even just black but mixed or latino, can get you in trouble and I tend not to argue with people about White privilege because of exactly what you said, they become defensive and I agree with that last part, there lots of things that come with being a man or woman, its not  fun and games.
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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CMD042414

Quote from: Julia1996 on August 06, 2017, 03:36:18 PMCops are just people. If you piss them off or insult them they will make sure to make things as hard for you as possible. Resisting physically will get you a face full of pepper spray or you will get tazered.
Julia
Cops certainly are just people. Which means white cops can be total hate filled racists too. All it takes is a racist cop who absolutely despises black people, especially black men. I truly believe that there are racist cops that get off on abusing black men. I really do. They love that they can put us in our place and actually want a reason to hurt and yes kill us. And I believe this for the exact reason you mentioned, cops are just people.

My issue is when white Americans are incredulous to the idea that a cop can in fact hate black people. As if somehow because he has a uniform and a badge he is magically a superhero upstanding human being. Nope. There are ->-bleeped-<- civilians and there are ->-bleeped-<- cops. Thousands of them. And I wouldn't be surprised if the police profession is attractive to them partly because they can harass and threaten black men. And i say this as someone who always had positive interactions with police. But I see and hear what other brothas go through. I am lighter skinned and wear glasses too. Makes a big difference. Ever notice that almost all of the high profile police brutality cases are darker skinned black men? Not a coincidence people!
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Ryuichi13

When I decided to transition, it suddenly hit me that I will be a African-American man, and all that ensues.  I talked about this fact to my therapist, a African-American woman who understands what its like to often be seen as a "color" first and as a person second in America.   

I remember my Mom giving my brothers a talk on how to act towards the police and authority figures in general years ago when we were still teenagers.  I don't remember the details, so I went to google to see what I could find.  I found this article:

http://madamenoire.com/562292/straight-from-a-cops-mouth-10-tips-for-young-black-men-dealing-with-police/

As an African-American, I'm already used to standing in the middle of aisles when I go to stores, being acknowledged by racist store staff who ask me "may I help you," yet ignore my non-threatening genderfluid boyfriend simply because he presents as a middle-aged white woman with a cane.  I realise that this "special attention" is what racists often do as a way to say "I have my eye on you" while I'm in their store.  Sure, that might simply be someone honestly wanting to help, but if that's so, why ignore my boyfriend as he walks down the aisle near me? 

I also make sure that I no longer smile at babies, small children and especially women for fear of being perceived as a pedophile or some kind of pervert.  Its a sad fact of life that the smile I usually wear for the simple joy of being alive is now often seen as threatening in some way.

It seems that only people of color, and especially men of color can truly understand what its like to ALWAYS be perceived as a threat, even when we're simply driving down the street.  My little brother (6'3" and 300lbs) stopped driving in a certain suburb they often had to drive through.  He got tired of being stopped time and time again whenever he was in the car, so his blond-haired white ex-wife would drive.  Time and time again they were pulled over and harrassed by the local cops.  I remember her telling us she would get mad at the cop whenever they asked to see their licenses.  Usually the cop would first taking her aside and ask "are you alright ma'am?"  She would say "of course I am, he's my husband!"  She might have been only 5'4" or so tall, but she was a spitfire! 

I understand where you are coming from, Brandon.  Its sad that in 2017 we as men of color still have to worry about how we are perceived.

Don't give up hope.  Not all cops are racists towards people of color.  I can say this as a fact.  My younger sister is a Homicide cop. ☺

Ryuichi 

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Brandon

Quote from: CMD042414 on August 06, 2017, 11:06:28 PM
Cops certainly are just people. Which means white cops can be total hate filled racists too. All it takes is a racist cop who absolutely despises black people, especially black men. I truly believe that there are racist cops that get off on abusing black men. I really do. They love that they can put us in our place and actually want a reason to hurt and yes kill us. And I believe this for the exact reason you mentioned, cops are just people.

My issue is when white Americans are incredulous to the idea that a cop can in fact hate black people. As if somehow because he has a uniform and a badge he is magically a superhero upstanding human being. Nope. There are ->-bleeped-<- civilians and there are ->-bleeped-<- cops. Thousands of them. And I wouldn't be surprised if the police profession is attractive to them partly because they can harass and threaten black men. And i say this as someone who always had positive interactions with police. But I see and hear what other brothas go through. I am lighter skinned and wear glasses too. Makes a big difference. Ever notice that almost all of the high profile police brutality cases are darker skinned black men? Not a coincidence people!

Now I strongly agree with you on every point you made and see I know not all cops are bad but people deny that there are in fact racist cops and we black men are in trouble because it is only going to get worse.
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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Brandon

Quote from: Ryuichi13 on August 06, 2017, 11:18:20 PM
When I decided to transition, it suddenly hit me that I will be a African-American man, and all that ensues.  I talked about this fact to my therapist, a African-American woman who understands what its like to often be seen as a "color" first and as a person second in America.   

I remember my Mom giving my brothers a talk on how to act towards the police and authority figures in general years ago when we were still teenagers.  I don't remember the details, so I went to google to see what I could find.  I found this article:

http://madamenoire.com/562292/straight-from-a-cops-mouth-10-tips-for-young-black-men-dealing-with-police/

As an African-American, I'm already used to standing in the middle of aisles when I go to stores, being acknowledged by racist store staff who ask me "may I help you," yet ignore my non-threatening genderfluid boyfriend simply because he presents as a middle-aged white woman with a cane.  I realise that this "special attention" is what racists often do as a way to say "I have my eye on you" while I'm in their store.  Sure, that might simply be someone honestly wanting to help, but if that's so, why ignore my boyfriend as he walks down the aisle near me? 

I also make sure that I no longer smile at babies, small children and especially women for fear of being perceived as a pedophile or some kind of pervert.  Its a sad fact of life that the smile I usually wear for the simple joy of being alive is now often seen as threatening in some way.

I understand where you are coming from, Brandon.  Its sad that in 2017 we as men of color still have to worry about how we are perceived.

Don't give up hope.  Not all cops are racists towards people of color.  I can say this as a fact.  My younger sister is a Homicide cop. ☺

Ryuichi 

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I didn't hit me until my mom and dad understood that I identify as a black male and am one, thats when they started having those talks with me and its like damn, I shouldn't have to have this conversation but you right I know not all cops are bad and I am glad you understand man!
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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Ryuichi13

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 11:31:59 PM
I didn't hit me until my mom and dad understood that I identify as a black male and am one, thats when they started having those talks with me and its like damn, I shouldn't have to have this conversation but you right I know not all cops are bad and I am glad you understand man!
Dude, you might want to re-read my post.  I added to it after I posted it! [emoji29][emoji16]

Yeah, I get ya man.  Just remember to be polite whenever you're dealing with cops, and do whatever they say.  And never, NEVER argue back!  Remember, they have guns and badges and you don't!

Ryuichi

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Contravene

Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
Well in all honesty if you have never been through it, you can't speak on it, you can only imagine or place yourself in that persons shoes, which is still hard sometimes at least for me but I can empathize with others and the only thing is, there are only 2 therapist in the city I am from that works with gender so, I'd be stuck there but I am very close to getting my letter, so it wouldn't really be an issue.

No therapist has been through everything that their clients have, they shouldn't need to be. I don't have many gender therapists in my area either so I understand your dilemma in not having the option to see someone else though.

My future brother in-law is black and sometimes I'm terrified for him because even back when I was presenting as a white female the cops treated me like garbage despite the whole "cops don't persecute white females" myth so I can only imagine how they would treat him as a young black male. Luckily, he doesn't live in my city where the majority of police and the local government is corrupt. Where he lives the police know him and the rest of the family and are friendly with them.

I suggest getting to know the police in your area. In some areas the police and fire departments run charity events and things like that. If they do that where you live it might be a good idea to go to them and support your local police force or at least make yourself known to them in a positive way.

Other than that, sadly, the best advice I have is to treat the police as if they're criminals trying to harm you rather than the ones who are supposed to be protecting you from the bad guys. If you have a car consider getting a dashcam. If you're pulled over or stopped while you're walking tell the officer what you're going to do before you take action. For example: "I'm unarmed, I'm going to remove my hands from my pockets now" then do so. Narrate your actions like that.

Try not to let a cop confront you in an isolated or remote area, always try to be in a public space where there are witnesses. That one might be difficult because it depends on where you get stopped at but if you can, try to pull over at a gas station or somewhere like that rather than just on the side of the road in front of the gas station for example. A real cop won't mind if you drive the extra few feet to get to a safe place to pull over.

The suggestion to learn body language is a good idea too.
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elkie-t

Can't there be a black racist cops who just love to harass white people? Don't listen to your brothas too much. Don't look like a trouble and the trouble would not look for you.

As far as a 'racist' 'how can I help you' - it's something new in racial science... Next time a black clerk asks me that, I'll tell him it's racism to ask that question to white customers...


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CMD042414

Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 06:52:26 AM
Can't there be a black racist cops who just love to harass white people? Don't listen to your brothas too much. Don't look like a trouble and the trouble would not look for you.

As far as a 'racist' 'how can I help you' - it's something new in racial science... Next time a black clerk asks me that, I'll tell him it's racism to ask that question to white customers...


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Of course there are racist black cops that don't like white people. But how many of those interactions result in the white person being killed at the hand of the black cop.
Started T: April 2014
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Ryuichi13

Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 06:52:26 AM
Can't there be a black racist cops who just love to harass white people? Don't listen to your brothas too much. Don't look like a trouble and the trouble would not look for you.

As far as a 'racist' 'how can I help you' - it's something new in racial science... Next time a black clerk asks me that, I'll tell him it's racism to ask that question to white customers...


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Honestly speaking, sure, that is a possibility, but you rarely hear about a black cop shooting an unarmed white man. 

And fwiw, I definitely do not present as a "brotha."

"The racist how may I help you" isn't anything new.  It  something that, unless you've experienced it, most people don't understand or even notice. 

As to calling a saleperson of color racist for wanting to help you, that is your choice. 

While shopping, I've been targeted, followed and had unwanted/unneeded help for something as simple as looking at something interesting "for too long," especially if its an expensive item.  Even while still in my Paramedic uniform.  I've even had my boyfriend notice overt racist behaivior directed towards me that I somehow missed.   

Not everyone that works in stores are "out to harrass someone of color," but unfortunately, there are still those out there that do it. [emoji17]

Of course, there are also those salespeople that simply wish to help.  Usually the salespeople I encounter are the helpful type, which makes the racist ones stand out all the more, especially when they follow you around the store.

Ryuichi

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elkie-t

Quote from: CMD042414 on August 07, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
Of course there are racist black cops that don't like white people. But how many of those interactions result in the white person being killed at the hand of the black cop.
Last couple of times when a black person was killed by a white cop, he was either armed or tried to fight them. When was the last time a cop killed a fully compliant black person during a routine traffic stop?

I am against police brutality and paramilitarization, and as CCW holder I am also a potential target for a rogue cop (let me tell you, I was once one move away from being shot by police). So, again I have a great sympathy to any case when shooting by police is not justified. Yet, it does not cease to amaze me how stupid were acts of so many 'victims' who were shot. They think they can brandish a gun on a cop, or attack him physically without a cop defending himself??? Seriously?
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elkie-t

Btw, while you're at it, look up in Wikipedia 'Death of Kelly Thomas'. I don't know if any of 6 officers were black, but the main assault came from a Latino officer. All found not guilty. I hope not only black life's matter...


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Cindy

OK lets not start an argument in this thread.

That would disappoint and upset me.

Cindy


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WolfNightV4X1

Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 08:40:50 AM
Last couple of times when a black person was killed by a white cop, he was either armed or tried to fight them. When was the last time a cop killed a fully compliant black person during a routine traffic stop?

Actually, there is a case where an unarmed black man stopped by cops was in fact shot, wife in the passenger and child in the backseat. He was shot because unfortunately even if he wasn't threatening he didn't listen to "the rules", and when he reached down to get something it was perceived as a threat and the cop shot into his window. I don't have the video, I was actually kind of disgusted when a friend showed me it so I didn't bother to go look.

Another case of a black male trying to protect a young autistic male, he ended up getting shot accidentally.



I agree the majority of cases are criminals who HAPPEN to be black, but because of the fear associated with these men it causes harm to innocent people..



These guys in this thread already admitted they do not believe all cops are racist, why continue to cause a stir?
I do believe part of the reason cops are caused to look "evil" is because in black and white their job is glorified, they might go about trying to help people and catch "the bad guy", but in reality, all people you are dealing with in the end are civilians...and there's a hard line to draw in determining who is trouble and who's a good person who messed up.

Besides that, Ryichis point with the "May I help you?" is in no way to demean a harmless phrase, he's a smart guy, you can usually tell the context of a phrase by the vitriol and caution in a voice.
I work in retail myself so one of the unfortunate things I have to do, especially when co-workers suspect someone, is be aware of shady people. I don't like judging people unless I know for sure they did something wrong so it can be hard. However, I do see so many wonderful people who are black, Muslim, Hispanic, poor, gender variant etc. It far outweighs the crooks so if I see someone shady, it's not because they're black.


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Brandon

Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 06:52:26 AM
Can't there be a black racist cops who just love to harass white people? Don't listen to your brothas too much. Don't look like a trouble and the trouble would not look for you.

As far as a 'racist' 'how can I help you' - it's something new in racial science... Next time a black clerk asks me that, I'll tell him it's racism to ask that question to white customers...


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Yes they can but how often do you see that? Not only that but this is about my experiences as a black man, we know not only white people can be racist but this is not about that. I have had my own fair share of racist people, so I have experienced it.
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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Brandon

Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 08:40:50 AM
Last couple of times when a black person was killed by a white cop, he was either armed or tried to fight them. When was the last time a cop killed a fully compliant black person during a routine traffic stop?

I am against police brutality and paramilitarization, and as CCW holder I am also a potential target for a rogue cop (let me tell you, I was once one move away from being shot by police). So, again I have a great sympathy to any case when shooting by police is not justified. Yet, it does not cease to amaze me how stupid were acts of so many 'victims' who were shot. They think they can brandish a gun on a cop, or attack him physically without a cop defending himself??? Seriously?

Not eveyone of those dudes were armed though, most of those cops use acessive force, which is not needed. Say what you will but there have been fully compliant black people, don't give me that and I am really not trying to argue. Face it you got some racist ass cops but some of you choose not acknwolage it.
keep working hard and you can get anything you want.    -Aaliyah
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