There are a few topics in here that I've been giving a lot of thought to lately.  First is the concept of what are trans-girl problems versus what are just simply girl problems.  Many of the discontent you mention with your own appearance, as others have noted, are precisely what girls go through on a daily basis.  As a man, you weren't burdened with those things because let's face it, men to really judge each other much on appearance. We talk a lot in these forums about our wants and desires to have more feminine bodies, more feminine gestures, more feminine personalities.  For every one of those themes we talk about so commonly as trans-women, there are cis-women who struggle day to day with the same issues. 

With the issues being the same, some may say the reactions from the general public are different for trans women than cis women.  But is that really true?  A cis-woman has to be worried about active discrimination against her if her image doesn't fit the expectations of society. A cis-woman has to worry about rude comments and stares from other people if her appearance stands out in a "negative" way.  Perhaps the one different is cis-women don't have the same threat of violence based on their appearance that trans-women experience but I certainly question what the relative level of occurrence is among trans women as a whole and whether that's as significant as we make it out to be.

So society's reactions can be very similar, so what is different?  Well how many cis-women do you know who isolate themselves in their homes.  They can't.  Unlike trans women who are not full time, cis-women don't have a "safer" appearance to fall back into.  So they go out and face the world despite their concerns of how they look.

So this leads to the second topic that I've thought much about, which is why do we as trans women try so hard to conform to society's expectations of what a woman should look like.  I get that we want to blend in and not stand out as unnatural or unusual as a way to avoid negative reactions.  But to what end?  I've talked to trans women who don't wear certain clothes, take part in certain activities or act in ways they'd really like to simply for these reasons.  For instance, a tall trans woman who loves high heels but won't wear them for fear of standing out. It makes me question why we transition then.  As trans women, we've suffered through a life where we were forced to conform to a specific set of gender-based expectations that don't fit us.  We transition to free ourselves from having to conform to those expectations and to live authentically.  To be true to ourselves.  So what good is transitioning if we simply trade in one set of social rules for another set?  If we still don't feel free to be ourselves, what do we gain?  As a transitioning woman, why are we afraid to be ourselves and not apologize for the elements of who we are that are different from what society says a woman should be?

For my part, thinking on these topics has really galvanized me to be out and about in public as my true self. Sure I do wear wigs and makeup and breast forms to make my body appear more feminine.  However, I don't do this 24x7.  If I need to go to the store and haven't shaved today, do I quick scramble and put on male clothes?  Do I shave, do makeup, get my wig on, etc?  No, I go out in whatever clothes (likely 100% female) that I'm wearing and I just do my thing.  Does it take courage?  Sure.  Do I get strange looks, maybe.  Do I risk outing myself since I'm not fully out to all friends and neighbors?  Absolutely.  But as a trans woman, I've become defiant of society's expectations.  It's those expectations that made 39 years of my life complete hell. 

Below is a picture I posted on Facebook a long with a challenge to trans-women to try and push themselves to their next step of exposure and visibility.  This is how I recently went to a laser hair removal session.  I was not "out" to the people at the clinic, I made other stops for groceries and things on the way back.  I had no wig, no breast forms, and only a little eye-liner yet it didn't make me any less of a woman.  I know all our situations are different, but I encourage you all to embrace and own who you are.  You're a woman not because society says so, but because you innately identify as one. 

Yes I do think me being a transgender has been a burden or really a dam curse as it has taken my beautiful wife from me my lovely home which we have both built up, all of my friends ( were they ever real ones! ) but now as the pain of coming out & spending more time as the woman I've always wanted to be, becoming a trans person has made me slowly become much more happier inside & except it is not my fault for being this way, so each day it becomes press of a burden.
Sara.

Quote from: Gertrude on August 08, 2017, 01:05:58 PM
How does one embrace it, particularly when we live in. Society that rejects us? Cis folks are socially reinforced, staying within our community just makes the closet bigger.

You can think of society as a rude an unacceptable place (and not without a reason), or you can start experimenting with your gender presentation. If you aren't comfortable doing it where you live, just go to a nearest city for some fun.

I mean there's nothing wrong to first work on your image and presentation at home, or go to a friendly gay bar or a support group or a kinky event. As long as you aren't in your neighbors or coworkers face - they won't recognize you 50 miles from your home, not even 20 miles). You might find that the world in general isn't hostile to you (or me) and then decide how you want to live the rest of your life from there

Disclaimer: I tried it for 9 months, really liked and had no issues whatsoever (being 6''3" and 200lbs has its advantages, although many commented that I look cute and pass - liers), yet decided to stop. And I am more or less happy with my current situation although if things change wouldn't exclude full transition in the future.

First time posting today on this site (but long time reader of course )

Just had to say that I think about this topic all the time at the moment as a mid-life white guy a couple of years into transitioning, now separated from his wife and finding himself on increasingly rocky ground. I am in a rural area of the UK, which probably doesn't help things, but, to misquote the man, transitioning for me has been the best of times and the second-worst of times. (The worst was, of course, life before transitioning...)

I was very heartened to read ds1987 and AlyssaJ's comments. (I have to get that t-shirt as well!) I find that the journey that sensitive people in the US go on provides them with a good perspective - life for minorities is no picnic. "White privilege" and "male privilege" are both very real. I am not for a minute suggesting that everyone's issues with life post-transitioning should be interpreted in this light but as I come across indifference/rejection/disgust/bigotry I like to remind myself that this is just normal for most minorities. But it's a rude awakening, and very difficult to 1) suddenly develop thick skin and 2) avoid martyr complexes...

Basically, I find transitioning to be so, so strange, because it feels natural, inevitable, like the only thing I could ever have done. Yet, in a way it's also been the most "artificial", deliberate thing I've ever done, taking sustained and conscious effort.  Paradoxically, only by starting to "make believe" have I been able to glimpse an authentic self - or at least a "sustainable" self.  Is it a burden - yes, but a lighter one, I think, than the alternative! For me the alternative is just an illusion or facade that hides a terrible emptiness.

Quote from: gladys on August 08, 2017, 10:09:35 PM
I was very heartened to read ds1987 and AlyssaJ's comments. (I have to get that t-shirt as well!)

Here's the link to where you can get that t-shirt:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071727BPZ

Alyssa your writing above (5 posts up) contains great insight and causes me to think and realize new things about myself.  Your post is an example of why I spend time on Susans, to learn from others. 

Gladys, you joined Susan's as a member today - congratulations, and I see you are already writing and adding a perspective we can all benefit from.  I believe you will gain a lot here (I certainly have), and in more depth now that you can interact.  I recommend when you get the chance, please cruise over to the Introductions forum if you don't mind posting an intro. 

We always provide the following information to new members, I will add it here for you. 

A Cautionary Note:
This is a public forum so please remember when posting that The Internet Never Forgets, and the various web crawlers and archival sites out there may retain information that you post.

We cannot ensure that any information you share on the site will be protected from public view and/or copying or reproduction. This warning is also listed in the Terms of Service listed below.

If you give out personal information on Susan's you are responsible for any consequence.

I also want to share some links with you. They include helpful information and the rules that govern the site.  It is important for your enjoyment of the site to take a moment to go through them

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...and back to the original reply I was going to type to this post.  In my experience right now I don't see being transgender as a burden - not at all.  I did during initial stages but moved beyond that once I started seeing the benefits.  If anyone I run into has a problem with the fact I am transgender, it's their fabricated burden to own and not mine. 

Kendra

Quote from: gladys on August 08, 2017, 10:09:35 PM
First time posting today on this site (but long time reader of course )

Just had to say that I think about this topic all the time at the moment as a mid-life white guy a couple of years into transitioning, now separated from his wife and finding himself on increasingly rocky ground. I am in a rural area of the UK, which probably doesn't help things, but, to misquote the man, transitioning for me has been the best of times and the second-worst of times. (The worst was, of course, life before transitioning...)

I was very heartened to read ds1987 and AlyssaJ's comments. (I have to get that t-shirt as well!) I find that the journey that sensitive people in the US go on provides them with a good perspective - life for minorities is no picnic. "White privilege" and "male privilege" are both very real. I am not for a minute suggesting that everyone's issues with life post-transitioning should be interpreted in this light but as I come across indifference/rejection/disgust/bigotry I like to remind myself that this is just normal for most minorities. But it's a rude awakening, and very difficult to 1) suddenly develop thick skin and 2) avoid martyr complexes...

Basically, I find transitioning to be so, so strange, because it feels natural, inevitable, like the only thing I could ever have done. Yet, in a way it's also been the most "artificial", deliberate thing I've ever done, taking sustained and conscious effort.  Paradoxically, only by starting to "make believe" have I been able to glimpse an authentic self - or at least a "sustainable" self.  Is it a burden - yes, but a lighter one, I think, than the alternative! For me the alternative is just an illusion or facade that hides a terrible emptiness.

I am so happy that you have found a kinship in mine and AlyssaJ's comments.  We are finding that, as we progress, there is a larger connection of dysphoria to that of other types of dysphoria outside of gender anguish that our transitions speak to.

You mentioned male privilege, which is SO much a real issue.  The more that minorities, be they racial, sexual, gender, et al, grow and widen in variety and call for equality, I have been hearing straight white males say that they feel like their status is waning and they are losing rights to be in the position they have held as long as they have known.  The more privilege is lost, the more it feels like losing oneself, and one's footing in the game of life.  Despite their ignorance or unawareness that we seek equality instead of asking for "more than" what they have, there is a truth in this taking away.  But that taking away is from a status that has been much higher than that given to minorities, until this time that we are growing in number.

Similarly, I wonder if some of the anguish, loss, and grief felt by trans women is partly due to their personal loss of male privilege.  That in shifting from a position of status and recognition as a part of a majority that enjoys such privilege to that of a female state, they experience a loss that they do not realize is a denigration of sorts out of privilege and into the unknown territory of substrata.  Hormones make us emotional, just like women.  Makeup and heels and clothing and breast forms (and even the breasts themselves) make us more like women.  But in becoming women, even as we become that which we know we are supposed to be, we are giving up a status held as higher in our society than the new status we are accepting for ourselves.

Lastly, in becoming our true self, we are effectually "unbecoming." In transitioning, we are dissecting the self that was created, and that we have been, and reconfiguring the very identity that we ourselves feel we have already been.  In doing so, we are separating our created self from our true self, and thus creating a new reality.  This is inevitably painful!  But in pain, there is beauty, in death, there is life.  All that is painful and sad and grievous is in fact beautiful and joyous and wonderful.  In embracing the dark moments and feelings, we allow for the growth of new life and love and joy.  My god, what amazing gifts we have been given to be able to deconstruct ourselves and become a new creature, better than anything we could have imagined.  So we should never be jealous of anyone else, because we have the ability to become so much better than anyone else.  We have the ability to become whole.

Quote from: karenk1959 on August 08, 2017, 08:14:48 AM
I walk in the world and most often when I see a woman, I think of how lucky they must feel, being able to do all things feminine, including wearing feminine clothes and lingerie and make-up. Then I realize that they probably don't think too often about it. For them, it is second nature and part of their identity that they have known all their lives. For me, I obsess constantly over my identity, how it feels to wear women's clothes and make-up and my wrong anatomy. Even if I were to fully transition, I would still always be cognizant of assuming a feminine role. I would be forced to think about how my TG was responsible for my marriage falling apart and the loss of friends. I feel like being TG is a terrible burden that I absolutely hate because instead of focusing my energies on other things and relationships in my life, I am forced to constantly think about my gender. Sometimes it just is too much to bear

Which is exactly why most of us tried for DECADES everything and anything to avoid taking on the Trans-Beast for real.

Looking at this from the "other side", the haven't fully leaped side of the equation, I can speak with some authority about:

QuoteSometimes it just is too much to bear

I vaguely recall  saying the same about NOT doing anything. About Stopping, About continuing on. Still to this day as I mainly live and present primarily as male, "Sometimes it just too much to bear".

Whenever I have my dark periods I need to remind myself of the far far darker world I resided in, Full-Time.

Quote from: elkie-t on August 08, 2017, 09:23:56 PM
You can think of society as a rude an unacceptable place (and not without a reason), or you can start experimenting with your gender presentation. If you aren't comfortable doing it where you live, just go to a nearest city for some fun.

I mean there's nothing wrong to first work on your image and presentation at home, or go to a friendly gay bar or a support group or a kinky event. As long as you aren't in your neighbors or coworkers face - they won't recognize you 50 miles from your home, not even 20 miles). You might find that the world in general isn't hostile to you (or me) and then decide how you want to live the rest of your life from there

Disclaimer: I tried it for 9 months, really liked and had no issues whatsoever (being 6''3" and 200lbs has its advantages, although many commented that I look cute and pass - liers), yet decided to stop. And I am more or less happy with my current situation although if things change wouldn't exclude full transition in the future.

I'm 6'5 and way more... physical safety isn't my fear as much social. I'd rather be me and invisible as I am as male.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Gertrude on August 09, 2017, 09:19:02 AM
I'm 6'5 and way more... physical safety isn't my fear as much social. I'd rather be me and invisible as I am as male.

So what? If you want to wear a skirt or a dress, go for it and enjoy your day out. Obviously, you won't pass, yet if your presentation is good (not too flashy, not too granma-boring), your face is clean and have nice makeup (but not overdone), no body will stick their fingers at you (at least somewhere far away from home - and even if they will, who cares about them).

Also, while you cannot change your size, you can do little thing that might ease your dysphoria. Such as buying closes for yourself in a store (I did it many times in a male mode and would always go into a fitting room - male or unisex if in male mode - to try them on). Or ask some cosmetician girl for help picking you a good foundation (and buy yourself the basic makeup with her help). Or go to some LGBT bar or a kink event - they won't care if you're big.

You can also go hiking/backpacking wearing a kilt or a plain skirt - no one would challenge your masculinity if you're big and strong. But you will enjoy some of the pleasures of wearing a skirt - such as feeling the breeze down there

All I wanted to say is that forbidden fruit is extremely appealing. Once you realize it's forbidden only in your brain and you can actually wear whatever you want and act as much feminine as you like, the fruit might loose most of its appeal. And you can do it without damaging your social life if you do it far enough from your house/town/work (I mean you can do it in your town as well, as long as you're ok it will be known forever in your public record - there are guys working as mechanics or construction workers wearing skirts and dresses and still they were able to pull it off, and so can you if you want).

Quote from: elkie-t on August 09, 2017, 09:52:59 AM
So what? If you want to wear a skirt or a dress, go for it and enjoy your day out. Obviously, you won't pass, yet if your presentation is good (not too flashy, not too granma-boring), your face is clean and have nice makeup (but not overdone), no body will stick their fingers at you (at least somewhere far away from home - and even if they will, who cares about them).

Also, while you cannot change your size, you can do little thing that might ease your dysphoria. Such as buying closes for yourself in a store (I did it many times in a male mode and would always go into a fitting room - male or unisex if in male mode - to try them on). Or ask some cosmetician girl for help picking you a good foundation (and buy yourself the basic makeup with her help). Or go to some LGBT bar or a kink event - they won't care if you're big.

You can also go hiking/backpacking wearing a kilt or a plain skirt - no one would challenge your masculinity if you're big and strong. But you will enjoy some of the pleasures of wearing a skirt - such as feeling the breeze down there

All I wanted to say is that forbidden fruit is extremely appealing. Once you realize it's forbidden only in your brain and you can actually wear whatever you want and act as much feminine as you like, the fruit might loose most of its appeal. And you can do it without damaging your social life if you do it far enough from your house/town/work (I mean you can do it in your town as well, as long as you're ok it will be known forever in your public record - there are guys working as mechanics or construction workers wearing skirts and dresses and still they were able to pull it off, and so can you if you want).

Taking these one step at a time is a wonderful way to discover yourself in process.  Without needing to dive in, because it can be SO overwhelming, dipping a toe in, then a foot, you'll suddenly find yourself swimming in the deep end and loving it.  Taking that deep breath and going in slowly can sometimes be much better for dysphoria, in that you get acquainted with yourself without feeling helpless to the tide.

I've gotten to a point where I feel my womanhood is inherent, so regardless of what I look like, and what I'm wearing, I don't feel any less female.  Owning that within speaks so much more to other people than trying to look the part in every detail

One of my true TG friends (let's call her Tanya) was encouraged to dress femininely at home by his(hers) girlfriend. I mean, Tanya was very upset that she cannot express her femininity and got depressed and so on. But after his/her girlfriend suggested that there's nothing wrong with that - Tanya bloomed, and became a totally relaxed person. When she's tired of playing dress up alone, she invites other cross dressers to her house and host a little party, or dresses up and goes into a neighboring  city for a good night of dancing at LGBT bar/dance club. What I totally love about her, is that she's not ashamed to be seen with her transfriends even in her own town (although she would be in a male mode herself) - we went shopping for cigarettes to a neighboring gas station and I was sure she would wait for me in her car, but nope - she would go with me and not ashamed at all to be with such a wonderful person as I am


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another story happened last winter. We were camping with a bunch of guys (totally non-trans community, mostly redneck/gun nuts kind of people, loving outdoors, hunting etc), and one of the guys (a very respected guy in the backpacking community) - he lives in a small town and works in construction -just mentioned casually (I don't recall specifically what we were talking about) that during the summer he wears kilt a lot and next time if we camp together we might see him in a kilt (and I've seen photos of him posted later). Again, I wouldn't assume he's transgender just because he likes to wear a kilt. And he was so casual and carefree about it, it wasn't even an issue

So my point is, what puts us in a vulnerable position and makes us a target to public harassing is our inner shame, not really the actions themselves. If you know you haven't done anything wrong, if you don't  act as if you're doing something wrong, as if you have nothing to hide - it's just not an issue 99% of the time.

Quote from: elkie-t on August 09, 2017, 10:22:41 AM
So my point is, what puts us in a vulnerable position and makes us a target to public harassing is our inner shame, not really the actions themselves. If you know you haven't done anything wrong, if you don't  act as if you're doing something wrong, as if you have nothing to hide - it's just not an issue 99% of the time.

YAS I love this and agree 100%

Quote from: elkie-t on August 09, 2017, 10:22:41 AM
So my point is, what puts us in a vulnerable position and makes us a target to public harassing is our inner shame, not really the actions themselves. If you know you haven't done anything wrong, if you don't  act as if you're doing something wrong, as if you have nothing to hide - it's just not an issue 99% of the time.

Exactly!!  I feel like I'm an example of exactly this.  The only truly negative experience that I've had where someone directly harassed me came at a moment where I was feeling anxious and lacking confidence already.  I'm sure my body language and posture were terrible and I probably gave off every weak vibe I could have. 

When I go out, holding my head high, in various states of traditionally "feminine" appearance, and walk with confidence, things always seem to go smoothly.  People enjoy engaging with me and I probably appear more approachable as well (the smile on my face certainly helps with that).  I'm not as self-conscious that people might be talking about me behind my back and all of that makes it so enjoyable and just re-affirms for me that I'm doing what's right to be true to myself.

The common theme in this thread has become: Disregard societal gender stereotypes and your inner perceptions of passing to alleviate the burden that the OP mentioned.  However, if one's goal is to become like the gender other than the one that was assigned at birth, and actually fit in the societal perception of a man or a woman as part of their transition, then there IS a burden.  And disregarding the perceptions heaped upon us by culture does not relieve that burden, or the burden of loss associated with family and friends when transitioning. 

Enough of the feel good, ->-bleeped-<-, and disregard for the facts.  Stop sugar coating it with philosophical arguments; being TG is a burden to most that decide to transition.

I understand your point but respectfully disagree. 

A mountain climber doesn't call it a burden.  It's a challenge with risks and rewards.  Big mountain. 

Quote from: Kendra on August 09, 2017, 11:26:59 AM
I understand your point but respectfully disagree. 

A mountain climber doesn't call it a burden.  It's a challenge with risks and rewards.  Big mountain.

Rarely do we have to climb a mountain to survive.  Not the same as transitioning to stay alive.  It becomes a burden when you must do it, in my opinion.

Quote from: ainsley on August 09, 2017, 10:59:51 AM
The common theme in this thread has become: Disregard societal gender stereotypes and your inner perceptions of passing to alleviate the burden that the OP mentioned.  However, if one's goal is to become like the gender other than the one that was assigned at birth, and actually fit in the societal perception of a man or a woman as part of their transition, then there IS a burden.  And disregarding the perceptions heaped upon us by culture does not relieve that burden, or the burden of loss associated with family and friends when transitioning. 

Enough of the feel good, ->-bleeped-<-, and disregard for the facts.  Stop sugar coating it with philosophical arguments; being TG is a burden to most that decide to transition.

Actually, if you can accept yourself as a third sex, as a transsexual woman, you can leave all that other angst behind. I think that it's fantastic if you were born with enough feminine traits to achieve the ability to "pass", good for you. But many can't and never will, regardless of surgeries or anything else. These women need an alternative to hiding in their bedrooms. That alternative is to not only accept yourself, but be the best you that you can be and tell the haters to go to hell. Your burdenis your burden. Life is a philosophical pursuit and regardless of who you are or what you have, your perception of things has absolute value.

Quote from: jentay1367 on August 09, 2017, 11:35:03 AM
Actually, if you can accept yourself as a third sex, as a transsexual woman, you can leave all that other angst behind.

Exhibit A of my point.  "Just accept that which you do not want"

Quote
I think that it's fantastic if you were born with enough feminine traits to achieve the ability to "pass", good for you.

Alas, I was not.  Hence my burden and continued pursuit.  I will not settle.

Quote
But many can't and never will, regardless of surgeries or anything else.

And if their end goal is to blend as the other gender, they carry a burden.

Quote
These women need an alternative to hiding in their bedrooms. That alternative is to not only accept yourself, but be the best you that you can be and tell the haters to go to hell. Your burdenis your burden. Life is a philosophical pursuit and regardless of who you are or what you have, your perception of things has absolute value.

Life is a philosophical pursuit to some, not necessarily all.

I am not going to argue the merits of acceptance of who we are.  The point is that being TG is a burden to many and it should be acknowledged as just that.  If you see it otherwise, ok.   Having a burden is not a good or bad thing,; it is just a thing.  If it weren't a burden, then trans care, WPATH, and other entities that support the addressing of the GID issues would not exist.