There's something I've been thinking for the last few days, so I thought I'd ask you lovely people about it.

When I think of my future as a woman, I am filled with elation. When I see natural born women do the things they do, I am envious. I don't see a future for me as a man. Etc.

However, I've tried out telling people I'm a "trans woman", or indeed just a woman, and sometimes it feels great; but others it doesn't feel quite right. I feel I haven't "earned" the right to call myself a woman yet. I'm pre-HRT, and I somehow feel I won't be able to call myself a woman until my body starts to change. However, if I haven't found my feminine identity by the point my body starts to change, I'm worried of losing my boy identity without having anything to replace it, and losing myself as I transition - furthermore, the sterility and breast growth will be irreversible. It seems that my brain, my identity, needs to "catch up" with my "fantasies" of being female before I do anything that's irreversible.

So, it's catch 22: it seems I can't call myself a woman until my body starts to change, but I shouldn't start to change my body until I can for sure call myself a woman. Have you guys had similar thoughts, or are having them now? Chat about it! =)

L x

Quote from: Leila94 on September 05, 2017, 03:06:07 PM
There's something I've been thinking for the last few days, so I thought I'd ask you lovely people about it.

When I think of my future as a woman, I am filled with elation. When I see natural born women do the things they do, I am envious. I don't see a future for me as a man. Etc.

However, I've tried out telling people I'm a "trans woman", or indeed just a woman, and sometimes it feels great; but others it doesn't feel quite right. I feel I haven't "earned" the right to call myself a woman yet. I'm pre-HRT, and I somehow feel I won't be able to call myself a woman until my body starts to change. However, if I haven't found my feminine identity by the point my body starts to change, I'm worried of losing my boy identity without having anything to replace it, and losing myself as I transition - furthermore, the sterility and breast growth will be irreversible. It seems that my brain, my identity, needs to "catch up" with my "fantasies" of being female before I do anything that's irreversible.

So, it's catch 22: it seems I can't call myself a woman until my body starts to change, but I shouldn't start to change my body until I can for sure call myself a woman. Have you guys had similar thoughts, or are having them now? Chat about it! =)

L x

Leila,
   I don't see any way around having some in between time. It was not the most pleasant time, the switch over time, but it was necessary. I used to say I felt like a 'blob,' not a man and not a woman. There is no magic switch. If you are committed to transitioning, know that it is a process. Every step I took, I watched myself to see how I reacted. Each step in the female direction made me feel good, so I went further. I had GCS in June and that really made me start to feel more legit as far as me feeling like a woman. The thing is, until I live for years as a woman, I won't have experienced the in's and out's of the experience of living female. Each day it feels more 'right.' The thing I always ask someone is whether or not there is a draw or attraction to remain male. Is there something you really love about being a guy? If there isn't and you are worried about going forward, it is most likely the fear that is talking. It is pretty powerful, that fear. The best indicator of if you are doing right is not the fantasies as you call them, it is experience. Real life experience and your reaction to them is more telling than some theoretical why if. I wouldn't worry if you can't call yourself a woman right from the start.
Moni

Leila. Transition does not happen over night so you have probably a good three years before the hormones have the greatest effect. In the meantime, I would advise getting your facial hair obliterated. So far I have had 23 treatments and am just over half way done. It is getting harder to be stealth and I really don't want to. But on the other hand I don't want to embarrass my wife of 35 years as she has been really good about accepting my decision to transition. Now a year into HRT I don't feel angry about everything anymore. The mental aspects of revealing a secret I've kept all these years was liberating for me and the Gender Odessey I just attended with 1300 people just like me affirmed it. Give it a fair review. Fitting in and being yourself are always going to be tugging at you in opposite directions. Best of luck to you. I was where you are, last year. But when my therapist asked if I wanted to go on HRT it took only a minute to think it over.

Quote from: HappyMoni on September 05, 2017, 04:40:31 PM
The thing I always ask someone is whether or not there is a draw or attraction to remain male. Is there something you really love about being a guy?

The only answer I can think of is "it's just easier". Also I looked pretty good. Does that make me less trans or less ready? My head is going crazy recently.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on September 05, 2017, 07:29:49 PM
The only answer I can think of is "it's just easier". Also I looked pretty good. Does that make me less trans or less ready? My head is going crazy recently.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It sounds like a fallback position. It sounds to me like safety rather than a desire to enjoy the thing you would move away from. Just my humble opinion.
Moni

In my mind, I was a woman since I was a pre-teen. My body finally caught up 50 years later.

Talk about denial? You can talk about me.

This feeling of mind and body not being the same is at the very center of gender dysphoria.

Quote from: HappyMoni on September 05, 2017, 08:38:17 PM
It sounds like a fallback position. It sounds to me like safety rather than a desire to enjoy the thing you would move away from. Just my humble opinion.
Moni

You are probably right. Going back to the safe zone is very tempting. I'm also going through a stage of hating having this mess in my head. I wish I was cisgender.

Quote from: Leila94 on September 05, 2017, 03:06:07 PM
So, it's catch 22: it seems I can't call myself a woman until my body starts to change, but I shouldn't start to change my body until I can for sure call myself a woman. Have you guys had similar thoughts, or are having them now?

I didn't refer to myself to others as a man until I started looking like one. In my view, it didn't sit well with me asking them to do that until I resembled one more. Many of them still did refer to me that way out of kindness or consideration but I never asked them to, which I appreciate.

Internally though, there was never much doubt about what I consider myself, or any sort of personal initiation I felt I had to go through before I could think of myself that way.

To solve the dilemma though, just accept you're in the transitional phase then, and will feel 100% woman later. For now, you're under construction, etc. Everyone transitioning has to go through the 'awkward phase.'

That's how I'm going to approach it moving forward. Even with my therapist I just use male pronouns and names because it just doesn't feel right, like I haven't "earned it" yet almost. I think part of it as well is that I don't want to taint the association, by linking feminine phrasing or names with what I currently look like.

Thank you for all the replies guys, you've given me much to think about it. I do feel a bit "blobby" at the moment, like when I'm presenting female it feels great, and every step towards femininity is a step in the right direction. I introduced myself to a few people as Jenny today, and it just felt incredible. I met another guy later in the company of a friend of mine, so had to introduce myself by my birthname (Joe). Even though it's a gender-neutral name, it just felt like, I don't know how to describe it, eating something stale and boring.

Quote from: HappyMoni on September 05, 2017, 04:40:31 PMI wouldn't worry if you can't call yourself a woman right from the start.
Moni

Phew. I guess I needed someone to say that to me, because of the common trans narrative (and lots of responses here) of "knowing" who you are your whole life. Not to belittle that experience at all! I have such respect for all of you.

Quote from: Leila94 on September 06, 2017, 04:55:47 PM

I introduced myself to a few people as Jenny today, and it just felt incredible. I met another guy later in the company of a friend of mine, so had to introduce myself by my birthname (Joe). Even though it's a gender-neutral name, it just felt like, I don't know how to describe it, eating something stale and boring.

Hi Jenny,

I have the advantage of being able to make the name change a step at a time. Going from Stephen to Stephanie lets me make a stop at the gender-neutral Steph along the way. My "support group" - the close friends I've come out to, plus my sister, have made the switch, and my Mom is trying. My wife has gone full-out to Stephanie (when we're in a safe environment).

Since those are the people I do most of my communicating with, I'm starting to really get used to it. Around the neighborhood we're close enough that names are rarely used unless we're trying to get someone's attention, so I don't hear "Steve" much.

When I have to introduce myself to someone new, I've started using Steph if I know there'll be no direct connection to the old life. Otherwise, it's still Steve, and just like you've noticed, it's becoming more and more uncomfortable.

Silly story: The clinic where I go to see my therapist and endocrinologist specializes in transgender support, so their database contains fields for legal name and preferred name, and they are very careful to use the preferred one. I had originally used Steve, but for my last appointment I went fully dressed for the first time, and though I wasn't ready to go all-out and have the preferred name changed to Stephanie, I was comfortable asking them to make it Steph. The receptionist changed it when I checked in.

So I'm standing in the waiting room, already nervous because I'm in skirt and heels, and an aide opens the door and calls for Stephanie. I was expecting Steph, so I'm looking around for someone else to go in. Confusion ensued. It took a few seconds to get it through my noggin that the receptionist had misheard me and put Stephanie into the preferred name field, and the crew had picked up on it immediately.

It was a rush of mixed emotions - elation for having someone use my chosen name, but also shock that I wasn't quite ready for it yet. It kind of rocked me back, and you don't want to get rocked back too far in heels (no, I didn't fall over). As much as I loved it, I did dial it back by having them put Steph in the field. That's enough for now.

Congratulations to you for making progress!

Steph

This is a big stumbling block for me.

Im still in the first mindset.  Not sure I'll make it to the second.  Saying 'I'm a man doesn't feel right'  and neither does 'I am a woman'.

I'm going to settle for 'I'm me' for a bit, though I'm sure it'll be binary in the end.

I watch my 4 yr old daughter from time to time-  and there's things she does and wants that are instinctively feminine and even maternal.  I didn't really do any of that-  like I am a small shadow of both gendersg.  That's my biggest hang up.  The thought of motherhood - makes me want to stay a man.  I've known maybe 1 or 2 ciswoman that didn't melt at the coo of a baby- I run.
That makes me feel unfeminine.  I don't think I would get along well with mothers.

Quote from: SaraDanielle on September 08, 2017, 06:48:33 AM
This is a big stumbling block for me.

Im still in the first mindset.  Not sure I'll make it to the second.  Saying 'I'm a man doesn't feel right'  and neither does 'I am a woman'.

I'm going to settle for 'I'm me' for a bit, though I'm sure it'll be binary in the end.

I watch my 4 yr old daughter from time to time-  and there's things she does and wants that are instinctively feminine and even maternal.  I didn't really do any of that-  like I am a small shadow of both gendersg.  That's my biggest hang up.  The thought of motherhood - makes me want to stay a man.  I've known maybe 1 or 2 ciswoman that didn't melt at the coo of a baby- I run.
That makes me feel unfeminine.  I don't think I would get along well with mothers.

I'm not sure I follow you.  You have a child.  You parent.  I'm not sure why you think motherhood in specific is so different.

It's definitely something that doesn't happen overnight. I wish it did. It would be nice to have thr physical and mental changes that quickly. In my case I'm having some physical changes but mental ones are more like breaking old habits. Sure some are easier than others but some are not. It takes time. Remember it's a marathon and not a sprint.

Quote from: Roll on September 06, 2017, 04:30:58 PM
That's how I'm going to approach it moving forward. Even with my therapist I just use male pronouns and names because it just doesn't feel right, like I haven't "earned it" yet almost. I think part of it as well is that I don't want to taint the association, by linking feminine phrasing or names with what I currently look like.

Roll, that's exactly how I feel at this point (only 39 days into HRT).  You took the words right out of my mouth!

Jenna xx

Quote from: rmaddy on September 08, 2017, 09:56:54 AM
I'm not sure I follow you.  You have a child.  You parent.  I'm not sure why you think motherhood in specific is so different.

Yes,  I do parent.  But I'm don't feel nurturing like the ciswoman I know.  Maybe that's just me.  I imagine if I had been born cis, and having children.  I couldn't have done it.  The feeding, the up four times a night for a crying child. 

I think I have the Mary Magdalene side of the feminine, but not the Madonna if that makes any sense.

A few months back, before I was full-time, my therapist asked me how I identify.  I was not able to say "I am a woman" because it didn't feel right.  I said I identified as a trans-woman.  But now that I have been full-time for several months, I am starting to feel like a woman.  Walking down the street, holding hands with my wife as a lesbian couple, or sitting at a sidewalk cafe, presenting as a woman and being accepted as one, I do feel more and more that I am a woman.  It seems to be something that I am growing into.

It is not so much an identity as a role.  My identity is ME.  I am me, and I always have been.  That isn't changing.  What is changing is my social role.  Just like I couldn't say I was a pilot or a computer programmer until I had finished the respective courses, I couldn't say I was a woman until I had done some "on the job training".  That training is coming along nicely.  So I guess I am a woman in training.

Quote from: SaraDanielle on September 08, 2017, 03:07:53 PM
Yes,  I do parent.  But I'm don't feel nurturing like the ciswoman I know.  Maybe that's just me.  I imagine if I had been born cis, and having children.  I couldn't have done it.  The feeding, the up four times a night for a crying child. 

I think I have the Mary Magdalene side of the feminine, but not the Madonna if that makes any sense.

Meet more women.  A good percentage of my GF's aren't jonesing for kids.

Motherhood is incredibly powerful.  So are myths of motherhood.  Mostly it's just cultivated unselfishness. 

If you never experienced that, it may be simply because it was never required of you by a sexist society.

For me, I've always been a women. But society has dumped so much crap on me over the years that I was afraid to say so. I think most of us, especially us 'olders', carry an enormous burden of crap that we don't realize is so large and heavy. It's one of the few things that have caused me trouble with transition.  For SaraDanielle, for most of my life I didn't like little kids. Until they were 7 or 8 I didn't want to have anything to do with them. Until I realized it was because I KNEW in my heart that I could never have any of my own, and that truly hurts. Now I'm just fine with them! This in-between stage does truly suck, my head's not quite woman's not quite man's, gets me funny looks! Oh well, that's part of it!

Quote from: SaraDanielle on September 08, 2017, 03:07:53 PM
Yes,  I do parent.  But I'm don't feel nurturing like the ciswoman I know.  Maybe that's just me.  I imagine if I had been born cis, and having children.  I couldn't have done it.  The feeding, the up four times a night for a crying child. 

I think I have the Mary Magdalene side of the feminine, but not the Madonna if that makes any sense.

That is common, even among mothers who have tons of children. Women as nurturers is a bit of a stereotype bred of cultural norms with the generic "men work, women stay at home and raise the children" patriarchy. Don't get hung up on it at all. It doesn't even have to be a binary either/or itself. Someones people don't like being nurturing, but they are really good at it. Sometimes they want to be nurturing, but just plain suck. Other times it will shift throughout life, and not even necessarily in the "more nurturing as you get older" way, as some people get caught up in the cultural aspect of it and then later realize it's not for them. (Picture stories about "great" mothers who then just left their family one day.) Hell, even those who love it and are naturally nurturing don't love it all the time. And of course, the stereotype goes in the opposite direction as well, and there are plenty of fathers who are extremely nurturing even as culture tries to quash that feeling.

I was fortunate to have a very nurturing mother, and whether it is genetic or learned, I don't know, but I am the same way. (Animals and children alike know instinctively I'm a pushover, and whining or tears will have me running trying to make everything better. I'm easily manipulated by them. )

Though on a bit on aside, we do have one major disadvantage in this arena in that we can't experience the bonding while carrying a child (well, technically not some FTMs here, but that's a whole other thing). By all accounts that can be powerful enough to drive a woman who is not inherently nurturing into being so, at least for their own child.