I have a big dilemma between start the prescribed HRT treatment from my doctor, which includes cyproterone valerate and ethinyl estradiol. I have read horrible things about the two of them and really don't want to use them at all. In other hand it seems safer and pretty attractive the use of raw ovarian glandular pills, there is plenty of forums, blogs, and other anecdotal resources about it. But why is always at the beginning of the transition? I understand that with 6 months of use, you are done in most cases. You have to stop taking them because your body start producing its own female hormones.

But, what happen in the long run after 3, 5, 10 years? Or after castration? Side effects?

I wonder if anyone had taken this kind of therapy and what can tell me about it? Please don't comment if you didn't ever take Raw ovarian glandular, there is enough comments about people who believe this, think that, etcetera. Apparently there is no scientific data, or research; the closer approach is to openly ask long time users, or ex users for their personal experience.

Andrea

Quote from: Andrea Souza on October 12, 2017, 11:11:46 PM
I have a big dilemma between start the prescribed HRT treatment from my doctor, which includes cyproterone valerate and ethinyl estradiol. I have read horrible things about the two of them and really don't want to use them at all. In other hand it seems safer and pretty attractive the use of raw ovarian glandular pills, there is plenty of forums, blogs, and other anecdotal resources about it. But why is always at the beginning of the transition? I understand that with 6 months of use, you are done in most cases. You have to stop taking them because your body start producing its own female hormones.

Do you not think the fact that there are no long term stories is telling? And, short of an ovarian transplant, there is no way for a male body to produce useful amounts of female hormones, regardless of any pharmaceuticals or remedies taken..

QuoteBut, what happen in the long run after 3, 5, 10 years? Or after castration? Side effects?

Again, doesn't the lack of stories tell you something?

QuoteI wonder if anyone had taken this kind of therapy and what can tell me about it? Please don't comment if you didn't ever take Raw ovarian glandular, there is enough comments about people who believe this, think that, etcetera. Apparently there is no scientific data, or research; the closer approach is to openly ask long time users, or ex users for their personal experience.

Andrea

It's interesting.. I've seen many threads such as this since I came out 7 years ago.. And I don't remember anyone ever  coming back with any positive stories.

Welcome to Susan's Place. Raw ovarian glandular pills are a scam designed to separate you from your money. Your body doesn't start producing it's own estrogen and the only time that might happen is naturally as the result of certain intersex condition. I am also not a big fan of the other two drugs as well because estradiol can be produce in a form that is identical to what the human body produces and it's so cheap that I think the drugs cost less that the labor to fill the prescription. I know in some countries they favor ethinyl estradiol but it would be in your best interest to see if a third option exist.

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Have you tried to find another doctor? Maybe someone here can help you with that.

These and pretty much all herbals and glandulars are scams.  In order for any real benefit, your T still needs to be reduced before there is, and then you'd still need to take in large doses that are unhealthy.  It's expensive too.  Try comparing that to paying for actual estradiol and spiro out of pocket.  If you have any medical insurance and under a doctors car, HRT is very inexpensive, especially compared to these things.  I've done the herbal stuff and the glandulars before and while I can say there was some benefits that I felt, it's all a giant waste of time and money over all.  My advise, steer clear.  As for the other drugs you mentioned, I couldn't tell you, and would have to bow down to the other ladies knowledge here.

Quote from: Andrea Souza on October 12, 2017, 11:11:46 PM
I have a big dilemma between start the prescribed HRT treatment from my doctor, which includes cyproterone valerate and ethinyl estradiol. I have read horrible things about the two of them and really don't want to use them at all.

Good news: you don't have a big dilemma because the choice is quite straightforward. [emoji6]

Cyproterone ACETATE (not valerate) is THE standard anti-androgen for MtF transgender persons in Europe. It has a very decent historical background, is quite safe (as long as your doctors regularly monitors your liver parameters and your development / symptoms) and effective. It also has the (albeit theoretical) advantage of being a progestative drug, which some anecdotal evidence says is good for breast development.

Evidence says that ethinylestradiol is probably not the safest choice because of its association with thromboembolic complications. A better choice would be, for example, estradiol valerate. It also has a very good track record concerning safety and effectiveness. You may suggest this to your doctor...

I cannot speak for the generality of patients, but I've been on these two drugs for the last few months, with VERY good results and no undesirable effects so far.

Quote from: Andrea Souza on October 12, 2017, 11:11:46 PM
In other hand it seems safer and pretty attractive the use of raw ovarian glandular pills, there is plenty of forums, blogs, and other anecdotal resources about it. But why is always at the beginning of the transition? I understand that with 6 months of use, you are done in most cases. You have to stop taking them because your body start producing its own female hormones.
But, what happen in the long run after 3, 5, 10 years? Or after castration? Side effects?

As you apparently know, there is no science whatsoever concerning raw ovarian glandular pills. Which means that when you take those, besides shedding your hard-earned money, you'll be taking pills whose content you don't have a clue about (no trustworthy entity controls its production or quality - for all you know, the producer may have stuffed it with flour or ethynilestradiol...); even if it does contain what it states, there are no scientific studies about it (remember that the vast majority of people who took it without effects won't post about their bad experience in forums, blogs, etc.; in other words, your sources for this info are biased big time). There is a very real possibility that it might harm you or delay your transition because of ineffectivity and/or adverse effects.

Quote from: Andrea Souza on October 12, 2017, 11:11:46 PM
I wonder if anyone had taken this kind of therapy and what can tell me about it? Please don't comment if you didn't ever take Raw ovarian glandular, there is enough comments about people who believe this, think that, etcetera. Apparently there is no scientific data, or research; the closer approach is to openly ask long time users, or ex users for their personal experience.

There's a saying in my country: the worst kind of blind is the one who doesn't want to see. [emoji4] As a transwoman and medical doctor, I have the duty to comment on this. If you don't want to read or to follow the advice, no problem, but you can not say that you've not been warned.

Choose wisely Andrea!

Peace & hugs, Sarah



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Quote from: Sarah.VanDistel on October 13, 2017, 03:39:53 AMCyproterone ACETATE (not valerate) is THE standard anti-androgen for MtF transgender persons in Europe. It has a very decent historical background, is quite safe (as long as your doctors regularly monitors your liver parameters and your development / symptoms) and effective. It also has the (albeit theoretical) advantage of being a progestative drug, which some anecdotal evidence says is good for breast development.

In some places like the UK, a LHRH agonist is favored for use in transsexual women because cyproterone acetate can induce depression/anxiety in some, even at lower doses and has been implicated in the onset of meningiomas and prolactinomas. At higher doses, it can cause liver issues and extreme fatigue. It also interferes with adrenal function due to its glucocorticoid effect, which is somewhat worrisome.

Raw ovarian glandular is a natural product derived from the ovaries of slaughtered animals. There is still a use for these products but most people find the bio-identical hormones to be much more effective and predictable than natural products.

Raw ovarian products may have variable amounts of several hormones and each batch will be slightly different from the previous batch. As the name says, this is just the ovary dried and powdered and compressed into little tablets. Unless you have a sensitivity to bio-identical hormones, there is no good reason to use Raw ovarian glandular  products.

Thanks to all comments, makes me to confirm herbals and raw glandular are scam with little to no effect. I just made an open question to something that I believe lacks information, reason why some people still sell it and buy it. Blindly trust doctors or pharmaceutical companies isn't something 100% safe as well. I think that's the reason why there is some controversy about drugs marketed as safe in Europe or elsewhere, and unsafe in the US. The choice for one kind of treatment, or another; or choose between doctors is very personal.

Quote from: Andrea Souza on October 17, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Thanks to all comments, makes me to confirm herbals and raw glandular are scam with little to no effect.[ I just made an open question to something that I believe lacks information, reason why some people still sell it and buy it.

Because people will attempt to con desperate people out of their money. It happens in all areas.

QuoteBlindly trust doctors or pharmaceutical companies isn't something 100% safe as well. I think that's the reason why there is some controversy about drugs marketed as safe in Europe or elsewhere, and unsafe in the US. The choice for one kind of treatment, or another; or choose between doctors is very personal.

Hmm, would I prefer to take some ground of cow ovary about which there is little or no scientific evidence and no quality controls, or would I prefer to take an ester of estradiol, which has been produced in a lab to a known standard, can be tested for quality and had science-backed research including studies with repeatable results? Personally, I'd rather take the estradiol.

Thanks again Kelly, is not necessary to be sarcastic.

Quote from: Andrea Souza on October 12, 2017, 11:11:46 PM

I wonder if anyone had taken this kind of therapy and what can tell me about it? Please don't comment if you didn't ever take Raw ovarian glandular, there is enough comments about people who believe this, think that, etcetera. Apparently there is no scientific data, or research; the closer approach is to openly ask long time users, or ex users for their personal experience.

Andrea

Hi,
I tried 9 months of raw ovarian glandular. I would have to say for me did not really do much good.  All the comments I found on always looped back to websites that claimed it works. I think from personal experience its snake oil. HRT is by far cheaper then the umm amount recommended for MTF (treads lightly) . That and a few other snake oil type things delayed me accepting me.