OK, someone point me in the right direction.   I was with a friend (becoming more distant) and he doesn't know I'm TG.  He was touting how those poor trans people are so screwed up and they have a 50% suicide rate, etc.,etc.  I was just grinning a bit and told him he was full of it, ain't true.  He says how do I know, I said I know some trans people, and asked him if he did and that was where he got his info from.  He sort of fumbled a bit and said he'd seen and heard the info on various places and that he admitted he didn't know any trans people.  I wanted to say"not so fast there, Johnson", but I didn't.  He really didn't want to know anything but what he thought he knew.  Then I read some numbers in a couple TG books I've been reading (Becoming Nicole) and I start to wonder, are we really so messed up, as a group?  Hell, I KNOW this is hard.  Then I read posts on "Straight wives with trans spouses", or close to that, that my wife has read occasionally and the posts were terrible.  Mostly unhappy SO's talking about what seem like trans people not even trying to work things out and it made me really depressed to hear and see posts like that.  I know we've all got our problems that we're trying to work out, but if this is how the public sees us I feel terrible.  It just seems so at odds with what I've felt with this group that I'm so happy to be a part of.  What are the real numbers and where do they come from?  Are trans people so insensitive and self centered (not my experience) or are there just as many jerks in the overall TG group as in the general population, percentage wise?  Toni

41% of transgender people attempt suicide. Real number.

Are some transgender people selfish? Sure. Some are just finally taking what they feel the world owes them.

Safe to say we only see one side of the coin, eh?

Hugs, Devlyn

Devlyn beat me to the first number. Some where between 2-3% may experience some form of transition regret and this number has been true as far back as when I transitioned. Last but not least, our rate of suicide after treatment drops as low or lower that that of the CIS population. Yes we have serious problems but with proper treatment they can be resolved.

Why in the world would your friend even comment on something like that out of the blue? Any way, I've seen 40%; however, as someone with a BA in Sociology who had to evaluate statistics like this, I can tell you than any statistic about the suicide rate among the general transgender population is bogus. It's no higher than the cis population battling depression. The most glaring flaw is that the 40% statistic is seriously outdated and reflects the transgender prostitute population.

Fair enough, Tommie. What would the number be in that case?

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 12, 2017, 07:28:36 PM
Fair enough, Tommie. What would the number be in that case?

Hugs, Devlyn

Oops, Devlyn. I didn't see your post before I replied and hope my reply didn't seem snarky. According to the USA federal government's CDC, the 2016 general population suicide rate was 13%. This is an increase from 10.6% in 2015. It's alarming. I'm sensitive to this issue because my father committed suicide on August 13 of this year.

No worries, hon. The number probably lies somewhere between the two would be my best guess. We're often listed in the statistics as our birth genders, skewing things.

Big hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 12, 2017, 08:11:03 PM
No worries, hon. The number probably lies somewhere between the two would be my best guess. We're often listed in the statistics as our birth genders, skewing things.

Big hugs, Devlyn

I can accept that. It seems anecdotally that transgender people suffer more depression because of the negative relationship and social ramifications many experience. We seem to keep pharmacists and therapists busy! I see my gender therapist weekly, but mostly because I have a crush on her. 

Thanks, Ladies.  I think the conversation started out as a political one talking about the current administration and since were both veterans, him being very hawkish, it went to the military and then touched on the trans edict.  Regarding statistics, a VA psychologist that interviewed me and then pronounced me truly GD (as if I didn't know that) told me that the military population has 5 times the GD people as the civilian population, percentage wise.  Something to do with FTM's being able to easily act their desired maleness without questioning in the military, and MTF's trying to overpower their feelings in a very male place.
     Thanks for the info, though I was really sad for a while after I heard/read all this stuff, it seems the general population that wants to deny our existence keeps getting fed only this negative news without any reference to other "groups" like alcoholics, drug users, those with depression and so on.  I keep thinking that I hope I'm not like that, it really scares me some times.
     Last night a friend (male) that I've known for a while came over and I gave him a lot of stuff I decided that I no longer need now that I'm dismantling my past.  He's very happily married and our wives ride horses together and we do stuff as couples.  He and I have openly talked about a lot of our spiritual experiences, aside from guy stuff we have done, and he has known about my TG journey all along.  I asked him to take me to the airport when I go for srs and pick me up when I return and he said he would and we talked a little about my changing and how different I would seem over the next months and I told him if it ever got too much for him or he felt weirded out to just let me know.  When he was about to head home I thanked him and put my hand out to shake his and he did and he seemed a bit awkward.  Then he said "what I really wanted to do is give you a hug".  I smiled and said "sure".  That meant so much.
     My heart goes out to our sisters and brothers having a hard time.  Yet I feel so lucky to have a wife still here and some decent guy friends (not the transphobic one) that I think are seeing a very female part of me coming to the surface and still want me as a friend.  And then there are the Ladies here that are so easy to talk with and so helpful and I'm sitting here with my eyes sort of watery.  Must be the hormones.  Toni

Trans people aren't selfish in general. We are labeled as selfish by people who worry about how our transition affects them and what "people" will think. My mom has called me selfish many times and it's because she worries about her reputation and what her stupid friends think.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 12, 2017, 08:11:03 PM
No worries, hon. The number probably lies somewhere between the two would be my best guess. We're often listed in the statistics as our birth genders, skewing things.

Big hugs, Devlyn

There is also a fundamental problem doing studies and collecting data on a group that by their very nature tries to blend in. The result is data is only readily compiled on a visible sample group (which is probably a minority) that may very well show different statistical traits than the overall mostly invisible population of transgender people (ie: non-transitioning and those who live completely stealth). Add into that problems with causation versus correlation, and you just muddy the water even further. A likely correlation without causation here would be that being transgender is positively correlated with higher suicide rates, but that also being transgender is positively correlated with depression and anxiety. Depression and anxiety are causally linked to suicide. So you have to play the game where you look for the original cause, but then who knows where that winds up. Perhaps being transgender is not even causal (though it likely is) for anxiety and depression, and they are simply correlated by a common genetic factor (in other words, happenstance is a bitch).

More importantly, my Intro to Statistics course is finally paying off.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 13, 2017, 10:14:02 AM
Trans people aren't selfish in general. We are labeled as selfish by people who worry about how our transition affects them and what "people" will think. My mom has called me selfish many times and it's because she worries about her reputation and what her stupid friends think.

This is entirely anecdotal and impossible to really quantify, but I'd go so far as to say that trans people are probably less selfish than the general population. Even if at some point it does become "I'm transitioning for me" and someone considers that selfish (which it isn't), think how many people only come to that point after a lifetime of living for others, putting their own needs on the back burner. On balance, decades of selflessness outweighs a few years of selfishness.

     Roll-so nice to see how many girls here are not only great looking, but smart.  Funny how few people understand anything about statistics, and how we are daily bombarded with information touted as statistics that is anything but-it's marketing!  Used to be an old engineering joke (yes, we do laugh, sometimes) that pretty much ended with "what do you want the numbers to be?"  That sort of sums up statistics today.
     Julia, just have to say I love your new avatar, you are soooo pretty.  Toni

I have thought about the selfish thing. Well I have thought about the statistics as well, but I don't know, I have been past suicidal for more than 2 years now, eventually I just stopped thinking about it.

I have never been selfish to the point that anyone would notice. We are all selfish to one degree or another. My current boyfriend and my last boyfriend both commented about how much I talk about transition, that I was very self absorbed. It bothered me a lot. Was I selfish, was self absorbed and selfish the same thing? Anyway, this might not be linear or cohesive but I hope that I don't mess it up too much.

Transition encompasses so much of our lives. I have to assume that the younger transitioners, not have it easier, but have grown expressing themselves as female. They have already done the groundwork basically. Not all but I would guess that the younger we start, the less we are correcting and the more we are learning it right the first time. Either way, it is replacing one way of expressing ourselves with another to whatever degree is needed or desired. Everyone knows that children are selfish in a way that we have grown out of or have been taught out of.

Here is what we are dealing with, we are children again in a way. In order to pass as quickly as possible we are doing a crash course that is unrealistic in what should be expected. No one pushes children like that, they are at the same point of development as everyone their age. As we age we can't say that anymore, now what would seem normal when younger looks caricature, exaggerated. We push hard so we can pass and during transition we don't have much room left for anything that isn't moving us forward. Yes, we are a little selfish or self absorbed, we HAVE to be to get past that first huge hump. It goes away, just as it does in children.

Considering that I didn't realize it at the time, is it so odd that people who have no idea what we are going through don't understand. I wish that someone would have told me at the time, ' It's okay. ' The people who I am closest to were tired of talking about it, well of course they were. The problem was, looooong after they were tired of hearing about it, I still had more to deal with than I knew how to manage.

So...
It's okay. This thing we are going through is tough at any age. Give yourself a little break sometimes to accept that it is okay. Okay, that you feel overwhelmed. Okay that you are stressed. Okay that you are a little self absorbed.

Um, now I feel like a weirdo  but maybe it will help someone.

Michelle

Na, Michelle, your not a weirdo, I agree that people outside of the community can't possibly understand how daunting a task we have and the sort of commitment that is required to actually make it through to a happy end.  This is a monumental task and, even though I have successfully handled projects that took years to complete in business, they pale in comparison to what's driving my life today.  I think that even though I can never escape the daily reminders about my transition (so much to learn, so much to do, so little time), there have been times that I did wonder if I seem to be talking about anything else in my life.  Most everything seems to be centered around and affected by what I have to do.  I wonder, does my wife get tired of hearing about this, even though she seems willing to always lend an ear (probably a good GF thing to note!).  Tomorrow I decided we're going to do something she wanted to do and I'm going to go a whole day without talking about anything to do with my transition.  Hope I can.  Toni