Quote from: Roll on October 18, 2017, 01:40:01 PMBut what if that risk is just in your head, and the threshold for risking misgendering was long since passed before the full gamut of HRT? So many people here prove the contrary to what you said, as many have not had any or only limited FFS and are still definitively feminine based on just HRT and what little they do have done. That is far too much of an individual thing to say that someone should just "do it all", particularly when they are still only a few months into HRT and there is no telling what will happen. I don't have any evidence for this at all and may be entirely wrong, but I'd wager very few people do it all.
You are very gracious!
I agree, very few people will do it all. But, as I said -- and this is the main qualification of my argument --
it all depends on what you want out of transition. And what you really have going against you when it comes to getting what you want. And neither of these questions are easily answered, especially at the onset of transition.
I realized I needed female gendering, full stop. That meant a certain path -- for while I was able to elicit female gendering without facial surgery, largely thanks to my voice, I still knew that HRT wasn't going to do
anything for the bony structures of my face. I could see the damage done by T, and that was enough. Over the long term, I could not rely on HRT effectively hiding those structures with better skin and fortuitous fat placement.
Nor did I have time. HRT usually takes years -- five to seven, really -- to fully manifest themselves. I was on HRT for barely ten months before my facial surgery, and there's nothing to suggest since then that I was wrong in my self-assessment. In the meantime, I enjoyed more of my
better years having the right face.
QuoteGranted that there may need to be overall revisions depending on individual procedures (making sure everything works together with the changed features), but that still isn't quite the same as just doing it all.
Then putting complications and finances back into the equation you find the pros and cons weighed even more heavily against the "just do it all" approach. Of course this is not ignoring the fact that if someone desires to pass without question they may very well have to do all of this, but I say with the utmost honesty (not simply cheerleading) I just don't see that in Bari Jo's case.
Bari Jo has presented what's likely a most flattering picture. Even here, though, it's clear that brow bossing, nose, and a upper lip length are her major tells (as well as the ubiquitous neck-fruit). After addressing all that, though, it's not unlikely that her jaw and chin may need refinement to make everything work together in a coherent fashion. It's less expensive and less time-consuming to do it all at once, and I think the aesthetic results are better.
For Bari Jo, though, she's already well into middle age! More likely than not, HRT will have limited effect.
QuoteThere is not a single cis-woman alive who is "perfect" and for whom every last feature is the epitome of femininity, why should we be any different? In fact, there is evidence that the most beautiful, and undoubtedly feminine, women have some distinctly masculine features that only serve to augment their femininity. (Jennifer Aniston's chin is the example they love to give for whatever reason.) I understand that many desire unquestionable stealth, and I am not one who would ever begrudge that, but I do not believe that such level of stealth carries with it a prerequisite of being a human barbie doll, and the risk vs reward analysis is simply not in the favor of a blanket assumption that across the board FFS should be a given.
I think the "other women have masculine features" argument isn't well used here. Aniston has one -- just one -- feature that's not the epitome of femininity: she has a long face, not just her chine but also her nose, though her upper lip is still very short. Aniston has everything else working well -- a slight figure, small bones, a voice that will never slip, great hair, and no other "masculine" facial features. Pretty much the only transitioners for whom this applies are those who transition during adolescence.
The "do it all" approach doesn't mean becoming a "human barbie doll" -- it simply means addressing everything that can be addressed. Nor does this approach end with the body; it also takes a whole lot of work, from voice retraining to recognizing the expectations and consequences of one's social behavior given one's gendering and acting accordingly.
If one needs unequivocal female gendering, I still think this is the most effective path to getting there.
