So it was a birthday party of a relative yesterday and the topic suddenly was about a famous trans girl on TV and were criticizing her with vile transphobic comments. My husband's family are so traditional and homophobic.

I felt so bad, I was staying quiet till suddenly my brother-in-law asked me what do I think about it...I just said 'Well I don't know, I think it's not good'.

Omg I was petrified at first and I even got so paranoid in my head maybe he clocked me and wanted to see my reaction so I was forced to use reversal psychology to shield myself. Saying Anything less or neutral at that moment for me was so terrifying. I felt so bad afterwards and wanted to cry. I needed to come to confess to you all here

Were you ever in situations like these, how do you react?

Thankfully, I was never in that situation while I was still in the closet.  I agree that it would have been terrifying.  I would like to think that I would have had the presence of mind and the confidence to say, "No, I disagree." 

But it would depend on the audience.  There are certainly some crowds where that would be unsafe.  I think that leaving the room might be a better strategy than saying anything supportive of hateful remarks.

Are you trans? If you are I find this is very fascinating and not because you were put in a very uncomfortable position. Even if you aren't trans I would understand.

It's kind of off topic but your husbands' family doesn't not know your trans then right? If you are trans.

Don't feel guilty,  you said what you said for your own safety and protection,  not because it's what you thought.
The TV celeb was not in the room,  so I doubt they know or care.
Maybe one day in future you'll have the chance to be a proactive ally and set the record straight. X

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This happens a lot at work, sometimes I join in with my coworkers' banter. I've even been asked directly how gross it was to "throw away what God gave you". It makes me feel more scared/embarrassed than anything. Sometimes I get red-faced and have to turn away. After a while, my mind just shuts it out and I play the part.

I wish I could give decent advice, but so long as you're not insulting a person directly I think you're fine. You're under no obligation to become a martyr. You shouldn't feel guilty about it, but that's just my opinion.

I hope future experiences treat you better.

I have a gay friend that's transphobic.  He's made comments like that to me.  I've actually stood up for the trans community to him, but it was only he and I talking.  If it was a whole room I was up against, I would have rethought my vocal arguments.  I wouldn't feel bad, yes, you were thinking of your own security at the time.

Btw, I have to figure out what to do about this friend un question.  I think he likes me.  Gotta nip that in the bud

I've done the same and it makes me feel ashamed but I'm not the kind of person that can just out themselves to prove a point. I can't bring myself to criticise but I clam up and kind of ->-bleeped-<- down and just sit there listening to the drivel. I went for a pint after work last Christmas with some of the guys and they started going on about trans women and I think I blocked out what they said but I just feel a lump in my throat and think about how their opinions might change if they find out I'm trans myself, it's kind of disheartening that they'll never know how close they are to an actual trans person. We're everywhere and most cis people, through their ignorance, don't even realise that. I'm sorry you had to go through that but you have to put up a defense mechanism to protect yourself. Don't feel bad, everyone understands where you're coming from.

Yes, it happened to me earlier this year.  I was with a new group of friends (more like acquaintances) and we were hanging around, enjoying our drinks, and just talking about random stuff.  One of the guys started talking about how he saw a 'woman' the other night, and he started making fun of how she looked.  She was obviously a trans woman by the way he described her.  Some of the other guys joined in laughter, but sadly nobody spoke up in defense of her, including me.  If they only knew that a trans woman was in their midst at that very moment, maybe they would have thought differently.  But then again, maybe not.  Anyway I'm sorry, but I'm not going to out myself on behalf of someone I don't even know, in front of people I barely know.  At least I didn't say anything to criticize trans people either.  I just kept my mouth shut.  Unfortunately this incident made me realize just how transphobic people can be when they are behind closed doors and when they feel free to speak their mind.

I am openly trans living out in the mainstream - and I am also often the first to criticize some of the over-the-top political correctness and unhelpful ideas that pervade trans culture.

I don't want people to feel the need to walk on eggshells around me ... or like they need to stick to a script in our interactions ... they tend to be hugely relieved when they realise I am happy to agree to disagree!

I've only said mean things about trans folk prior to my being on HRT. I am not proud of it, and only did it to hide the fact that I wanted to transition ... while I was in the Guardian Angels. At that time, it was not cool to have anything to do with the LGBTI community.
Just 3 months after leaving the Guardian Angels, I was on HRT.

It would be a serious situation indeed that someone was forced to criticize trans people. One can always shrug and feign total ignorance of the topic.

No that I do. If it's ever brought up I'll either say nothing if I don't feel like discussing it with particular individuals or if there's an actual debate or discussion happening I'll give my two cents, despite being stealth myself. I don't have to disclose my own status to say something about it. There are times when people are so wearisome though that it is not worth the effort of discussion with them.   

I'd just stay quiet. I'm not saying that that's the best response, or even the right response, but that is how I'd react to the situation. In my biology class my professor was explaining how being transgender is the same as being intersex and in my head I was thinking, "No, of course not" but I didn't want to raise the issue because I don't want to be seen as that kind of politically defensive person... I think I'd do the same thing in a situation in which trans people were being criticized. I wouldn't add to the negativity, but I wouldn't fight it either.

But if you feel yourself to be in a particularly dangerous situation, you can't blame yourself for hiding or even participating. Bashing trans people in order to ensure that you make it out of a place alive and unharmed is, while morally grey, wholly forgivable.

No, I haven't.
No, I wouldn't.

All of the replies have been nice, and of course safety comes first...but this wasn't a longshoreman's convention being disrupted by the Hell's Angels...it was the mean streets of a birthday party.   

The O/P never mentioned danger, just shielding her stealthiness.

Just hope you're never getting your ass kicked on the subway while the one person on the train who ought to help you is trying to be stealth. 

I would not underestimate "the mean streets of a birthday party". The consequences of "coming out" or being inadvertently "outed", to even a group of friends or acquaintances can be potentially devastating.

I probably would have just said "I don't know" and left it at that - If they pushed on it further I would probably tell them that I didn't feel comfortable discussing it and change the subject

That way you don't out yourself or create any ill will with the other family members

Quote from: Complete on October 21, 2017, 01:46:11 PM
I would not underestimate "the mean streets of a birthday party". The consequences of "coming out" or being inadvertently "outed", to even a group of friends or acquaintances can be potentially devastating.

I agree. I'm thinking if OP is trans and her husband and his family don't know then it could potentially be very bad. If I was in that situation paranoia would kick in and I'd wonder if they're all on to me.. but I guess those conversations happen all the time too so it might not mean anything.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 21, 2017, 01:34:05 PM

Just hope you're never getting your ass kicked on the subway while the one person on the train who ought to help you is trying to be stealth. 

There is something anyone might want  to consider in a situation such as this. Very few women are equipped to handle the sheer magnitude of the strength, violence and rage that men are capable of. Unlike many here, l have never served in the military. I have never experienced combat. Perhaps something is learned there that is different from what l have experienced as a woman in the face of violent men. It is not a pleasant experience. In short it is utter terror. Unless you are well armed and highly trained the feeling if complete vulnerability and helplessness is overpowering.

Long story short: The O/P wasn't forced to criticize transgender people, she chose to.

Okay friends 

Let's all cool our heels for awhile before someone gets themselves in trouble

Topic Locked until further notice

Thank you

V M