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IQ says i am not bright, actually says I am 'BR' is it legit?

Started by SailorMars1994, October 22, 2017, 10:14:59 AM

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MissKairi

I scored 120 on the last one. All BS
I, like most people, average around 100.

Ignore that silly test and you can always try another ten and take an average
Let's see where this journey takes me.
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ainsley

The online tests are a farce.  I have taken the online ones, as well as the written IQ tests, and the is NO comparison.
Some people say I'm apathetic, but I don't care.

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Roll

Quote from: Tamika Olivia on October 24, 2017, 10:04:15 AM
Do we? The idea of a single "mental aptitude" is retrograde.

I agree. Even in the best case scenario it only measures potential. Potential means little in the face of achievement.
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Sarah_P

According to an IQ test I took in middle school, I'm (or was) a super-genius (194). I can say without a shadow of doubt in my mind that I'm not. Don't ever believe IQ tests, even 'professional' ones.
--Sarah P

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MaryT

Quote from: Sarah_P on October 24, 2017, 12:03:09 PM
According to an IQ test I took in middle school, I'm (or was) a super-genius (194). I can say without a shadow of doubt in my mind that I'm not. Don't ever believe IQ tests, even 'professional' ones.

I don't know how IQ tests work nowadays, but in the past, scoring something like 194 on a standard IQ test would be interpreted by the professionals as simply having an IQ of over 130.  IQ tests were only designed to have reasonable accuracy up to about 130.  Even under 130, individuals were expected to have some variation in their scores when doing different tests.  As long as your score was under 130, a professional would say that your IQ was probably within some number of standard deviations from what you actually scored.

It is true that in the past, IQ tests were found to have cultural bias.  I don't know what, if anything, has been done about it.  It is also true that coaching and practice have been found to increase scores.
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Roll

Quote from: MaryT on October 24, 2017, 01:08:07 PM
I don't know how IQ tests work nowadays, but in the past, scoring something like 194 on a standard IQ test would be interpreted by the professionals as simply having an IQ of over 130.  IQ tests were only designed to have reasonable accuracy up to about 130. 

Don't tell that to the members of the "genius" societies who set their membership requirements at 150+ and charge a crap load of membership dues. ;D
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An Open Letter to anyone suffering from anxiety, particularly those afraid to make your first post or continue posting!

8/30/17 - First Therapy! The road begins in earnest.
10/20/17 - First coming out (to my father)!
12/16/17 - BEGAN HRT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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2/27/19 - Name Change!

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Sarahthenerd

Never trust an online intelligence test. Most are just clickbait.

The results are never in 100% confidence. Even if administered by a qualified individual and an actual test. The composite score by itself is meaningless. And are mostly only valid for educational placement in special needs settings. You can be in the top percentile in one category and be in the bottom in another. Its about identifying strengths and weakness.

An IQ of 163 doesn't exclude anyone from poor decisions.

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SailorMars1994

AMAB Born: March 1994
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MissKairi

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on October 24, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
Well, thanks for the input everyone :D

haha most welcome! I wouldn't want anyone feeling bad over an IQ test
Let's see where this journey takes me.
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Artesia

Quote from: MissKairi on October 24, 2017, 03:08:30 PM
haha most welcome! I wouldn't want anyone feeling bad over an IQ test

Especially a derpy online one.
All the worlds a joke, and the people, merely punchlines

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Kylo

Quote from: Tamika Olivia on October 24, 2017, 10:04:15 AM
Do we? The idea of a single "mental aptitude" is retrograde. I was able to learn the law with very little effort, but I lose my debit card 5 or 6 times a month and ran my car into a shopping cart that I had forgotten behind it. My sister is a fantastic history teacher who can't do math without her fingers. If you want a test that measures the various ways people acquire, process, and utilize information, cool. But this single measure business is unrealistic, and trying to keep it around has only lead to pain and marginalization.

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Yes, we kind of do need them in some situations.

Last time I dealt with an application for GCHQ they gave every one of the candidates a standardized 1.5 hour test of this nature and that was just for round one. There were at least three rounds of tests before you could even get to the first interview stage. That was because that job required the candidate to recognize patterns in data and other things the standard IQ tests usually do. There were about 1,000 people are round one and about a tenth of the number would make it to round two. They were not going to hire someone who could not do these things as it was a position of governmental responsibility for monitoring communications worldwide.

Nobody is forced to take an IQ test. Sailor Mars took one because I assume she was curious, but nobody forced it on her. However the idea that we don't need tests for mental aptitude for certain positions seems improbable. Would you send someone into space who wasn't a qualified astronaut and did not have the ability to solve the various problems that might crop up on a mission? If you are of the mind that we should employ people for certain positions without testing them at all because this will hurt their feelings, I'm afraid that's not very logical and might well put lives and projects at risk. There has to be standardized tests for vetting their general abilities, to send them up without testing them for an idea of their mental aptitude would be.... unwise.

Obviously these kind of tests are never the be all, they are in addition to a bunch of other qualifications and requirements, nobody will get such a job based just on the results of a general mental aptitude test. They're helpful tools in honing the candidate suitability, that is all. There's no single mental aptitude test that is useful for "life" in general, but for some purposes I'd say we do need them and that they are helpful. But like I said, for everyday life nobody is forced to take one and then punished for not being able to get a "good score". It makes perfect sense for these things to exist for certain purposes. Yes, they're not perfect, nor is the definition of intelligence, but what else do you suggest for efficient and practical sorting of people for such positions.

Where does the pain and marginalization come from? I took a CAT test in school and failed it miserably at the time. Did it affect my self-esteem or my other grades? Not at all. I was one of the top graduates in the top class of the year (we had these due to streaming), but my CAT score was laughable. Taken on its own it was generally meaningless, and had no influence or effect on my grades. Is there some place where people are forced to take a single measure IQ test and if they don't do well are actually marginalized? Does this happen in America or Canada or somewhere I'm not familiar with? There's a reason nobody is made to take an IQ test for no reason and then branded for it, isn't there. There's a reason people always point out IQ isn't everything. But it still has a place in some circles.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Tamika Olivia

I don't think we are exactly meshing on our definitions. I have no problem with specific types of aptitude tests, which seek to measure relevant skill sets for targeted purposes. What I'm saying is that tests like an IQ test, which purport to measure a platonic ideal of intelligence are not valid. They aren't measuring a platonic ideal of intelligence, because it doesn't exist. We just have a bunch of different skills that people have in varying degrees, a small number of which might be measured by an IQ test and called "intelligence". 

As for how to sort people based on their skills, we already have a system that does that. It's the educational system. People self select into educational paths that fit their skills. They're tested to see if they've gained those specific skills, and find jobs based on how well the exhibit those skills. This is, of course, only the ideal. There are a lot of structural concerns that keep it from functioning properly, but layering in invalid generalized intelligence testing doesn't fix that.

Now, the marginalization bit. These tests tend to be racist in both their methods and application. The application is easy to see. To this day you'll see racists holding up differential IQs as evidence of the superiority of their race, and the inferiority of another, usually out of malice or ignorance of what IQ  tests do or do not measure. This is bad, but it can become much worse when these racist beliefs become baked into people's brains. Being exposed  to beliefs like these can actually lead to lowered performance in those that are stereotyped as being inferior, a result not seen if the subjects are not exposed to the belief or not part of the disadvantaged group.

As for how the methods are racist, that's easier to see on stardized testing like the ACT or SAT. These tests have baked in cultural bias. Numerous studies have shown that these tests are loaded with terminology and cultural baggage that gives a slight advantage to white students over students of color. This slight advantage gives white students a leg up on the test scores, and those scores help determine college acceptance.  Take it to broader level. In the US  school funding is determined by performance on standardized testing. Schools that perfoem worse are given less funding. These tests are subject to that same cultural bias, and US schools are still largely segaragated. This leads to death spirals, where the cultural bias leads to lower scores for black and brown students, which leads to less money for the schools those students attend, which leads to even lower scores. It's all supremely f'd up.

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rosinstraya

Many moons ago, back in the UK, one of the founders of MENSA used to turn up regularly on tv. He was a very very strange person as I recall. There was another person in the public eye who used to go about his membership of MENSA a lot - Jimmy Saville.

In my view IQ tests are a very lopsided way of getting somewhat minimal information about a person's ability to do standardised tests. They are not an indication of a person's ability or aptitude.
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Kylo

Quote from: rosinstraya on October 24, 2017, 10:44:07 PM
Many moons ago, back in the UK, one of the founders of MENSA used to turn up regularly on tv. He was a very very strange person as I recall. There was another person in the public eye who used to go about his membership of MENSA a lot - Jimmy Saville.

There are people in Mensa who are weirdos and pedophiles? I mean there are people outside of Mensa who are weirdos and pedophiles. I'm not sure what you're getting at...

Quote
Now, the marginalization bit. These tests tend to be racist in both their methods and application. The application is easy to see. To this day you'll see racists holding up differential IQs as evidence of the superiority of their race, and the inferiority of another, usually out of malice or ignorance of what IQ  tests do or do not measure. This is bad, but it can become much worse when these racist beliefs become baked into people's brains. Being exposed  to beliefs like these can actually lead to lowered performance in those that are stereotyped as being inferior, a result not seen if the subjects are not exposed to the belief or not part of the disadvantaged group.

Racial differences in IQ as talked about by certain members of the Alt-right - that's what you're talking about here isn't it - are not taken seriously by the establishment. So I'm not sure what your concern is there. The establishment either doesn't buy it or does not like it and any studies on the matter that could actually prove or disprove the link between race and IQ are generally suppressed at this point for those reasons.

Being exposed to beliefs like this causes people to score poorly? Actually I think from marginalized individuals themselves the main problem comes from their own communities. I've spoken to quite a few black people who say that it is individuals within their own community who often discouraged academic excellence, not racists banging on about race and IQ online on 4chan somewhere. So if you're talking about racists within their own communities selling themselves short, that I can believe because I've been told this by marginalized people; and I myself am from a "poor" background where academic merit is not considered important. But without evidence I can't see how a few racists who've only recently been trying to present some case for IQ and race on the internet and not at large and in public before that are responsible for a problem more likely to be a result of poverty and disaffection and that has been going on for longer than the web has existed.

QuoteAs for how the methods are racist, that's easier to see on stardized testing like the ACT or SAT. These tests have baked in cultural bias. Numerous studies have shown that these tests are loaded with terminology and cultural baggage that gives a slight advantage to white students over students of color. This slight advantage gives white students a leg up on the test scores, and those scores help determine college acceptance.  Take it to broader level. In the US  school funding is determined by performance on standardized testing. Schools that perfoem worse are given less funding. These tests are subject to that same cultural bias, and US schools are still largely segaragated. This leads to death spirals, where the cultural bias leads to lower scores for black and brown students, which leads to less money for the schools those students attend, which leads to even lower scores. It's all supremely f'd up.

Wait. So are these students all from the US, yes? White and black or hispanic, etc. all going through the exact same school system. Because if we're not talking about immigrants with less than fluent English, or students from race-segregated schools with independent curricula, there is no racial excuse whatsoever for students from the same country and same school system and in the same classes to be less familiar with English words. What is the excuse you think they have for that?

If the schools are segregated and happen to be are poorer quality establishments then certainly that is an issue but not one of automatic "racism", unless the funds are being deliberately withheld because there's a school of non-whites needing it. It sounds more like the problem all over where there are good schools and there are bad schools, and some (like the one I went to at age 11 was filled with poor white AND black kids from sink estates and generally an underfunded mess with a horrible reputation). It performed badly and it got the students no other school wanted and it existed in a city that was generally underfunded... and it had nothing to do with racism.

As for "cultural baggage" what would this be? Are you saying that blacks and whites don't mix enough to have developed highly separate cultures to the point black people or other minorities don't understand American culture outside of their own communities enough to do as well on tests? Well that would certainly be a problem wouldn't it. And it sounds like that could be a problem with the community isolating itself as much as anything else.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Roll

Quote from: Viktor on October 24, 2017, 10:57:16 PM
So you're saying there are people in Mensa are weirdos and pedophiles? I mean there are people outside of Mensa who are weirdos and pedophiles. I'm not sure what you're getting at...

I think that a good portion of the people who join Mensa and similar organizations do so for validation in the face of their own insecurities. Not everyone, but a reasonable amount. Some do it just to show off. As a result, you do end up with a lot of people who are on the socially awkward side or brag a lot due to those respective reasons. Sometimes both.
~ Ellie
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I ALWAYS WELCOME PMs!
(I made the s lowercase so it didn't look as much like PMS... ;D)

An Open Letter to anyone suffering from anxiety, particularly those afraid to make your first post or continue posting!

8/30/17 - First Therapy! The road begins in earnest.
10/20/17 - First coming out (to my father)!
12/16/17 - BEGAN HRT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5/21/18 - FIRST DAY OUT AS ME!!!!!!!!!
6/08/18 - 2,250 Hair Grafts
6/23/18 - FIRST PRIDE!
8/06/18 - 100%, completely out!
9/08/18 - I'M IN LOVE!!!!
2/27/19 - Name Change!

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Kylo

I guess that's possible, it's obviously a point of pride for some and I guess Mensa is like an "official" recognition of being a brainbox. Never felt compelled to join it myself. I know someone who did. He was kind of full of himself.

Just to clarify, Sailor Mars, I think any sort of free online intelligence test should be treated with suspicion, or as clickbaity type stuff. I have looked for intelligence tests myself online in the past, the type that would actually be timed and extensive for a more "accurate" sort of insight, but most of those are not easily found. I wouldn't pay much mind to anything that gives "BR" as a result. That doesn't sound the least academic.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Tamika Olivia

Quote from: Viktor on October 24, 2017, 10:57:16 PM
Racial differences in IQ as talked about by certain members of the Alt-right - that's what you're talking about here isn't it - are not taken seriously by the establishment. So I'm not sure what your concern is there. The establishment either doesn't buy it or does not like it and any studies on the matter that could actually prove or disprove the link between race and IQ are generally suppressed at this point for those reasons.

Being exposed to beliefs like this causes people to score poorly? Actually I think from marginalized individuals themselves the main problem comes from their own communities. I've spoken to quite a few black people who say that it is individuals within their own community who often discouraged academic excellence, not racists banging on about race and IQ online on 4chan somewhere. So if you're talking about racists within their own communities selling themselves short, that I can believe because I've been told this by marginalized people; and I myself am from a "poor" background where academic merit is not considered important. But without evidence I can't see how a few racists who've only recently been trying to present some case for IQ and race on the internet and not at large and in public before that are responsible for a problem more likely to be a result of poverty and disaffection and that has been going on for longer than the web has existed.

Wait. So are these students all from the US, yes? White and black or hispanic, etc. all going through the exact same school system. Because if we're not talking about immigrants with less than fluent English, or students from race-segregated schools with independent curricula, there is no racial excuse whatsoever for students from the same country and same school system and in the same classes to be less familiar with English words. What is the excuse you think they have for that?

If the schools are segregated and happen to be are poorer quality establishments then certainly that is an issue but not one of automatic "racism", unless the funds are being deliberately withheld because there's a school of non-whites needing it. It sounds more like the problem all over where there are good schools and there are bad schools, and some (like the one I went to at age 11 was filled with poor white AND black kids from sink estates and generally an underfunded mess with a horrible reputation). It performed badly and it got the students no other school wanted and it existed in a city that was generally underfunded... and it had nothing to do with racism.

As for "cultural baggage" what would this be? Are you saying that blacks and whites don't mix enough to have developed highly separate cultures to the point black people or other minorities don't understand American culture outside of their own communities enough to do as well on tests? Well that would certainly be a problem wouldn't it. And it sounds like that could be a problem with the community isolating itself as much as anything else.

I'm not sure if you are getting all of our news, but the alt right isn't some small thing in the US. It's a major political force, and white nationalists routinely influence elections, commit hate crimes, and have violent meet ups. But more insidiously, these beliefs, while they may not be stated out loud, sink their claws into American policy and discourse. Taking hiring, studies have shown that the same resumes can lead to vastly different callback rates if the resumes have a non-white sounding name vs a white sounding name. These things do not need to be explicitly held be beliefs for the establishment to be influenced by them.

As for these beliefs causing lower performance, I'm saying that being exposed to these beliefs, in a lab setting, can lower performance. A member of X group reads an article about how X group does worse on a test, and then takes the test, will do slightly worse than a member of X that does not read the article, or a member of group Y who reads the article.

On the cultural bias portion, I'm running out of time before work. It's a subject that is a matter of much discussion, and I probably can't do it justice if I'm in a hurry. If you're curious, you can look up the subtle ways that these tests are slightly biased, and how those slight biases can impact scores and future success.

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Ok
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Jessica Lynne

Lol....only thing that's retarded are those online tests. You're a bright and articulate woman.
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SailorMars1994

Bahahah omg this thread is too entertianing xD. Yes I did do a test that gave me a score of 63, so BR. I did another one and somehow I got 124.. a genius. I also do not beleive that one either. I know I am not borderline retarded but I also know I aint above 120. I would assume in the high 90s..
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MaryT

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on October 25, 2017, 08:49:34 AM
Bahahah omg this thread is too entertianing xD. Yes I did do a test that gave me a score of 63, so BR. I did another one and somehow I got 124.. a genius. I also do not beleive that one either. I know I am not borderline retarded but I also know I aint above 120. I would assume in the high 90s..

I don't know you well enough to know whether you are a genius, but as Jessica Lynne wrote, you are obviously bright and articulate.  An actual IQ in the high 90s would imply slightly below average, but even from your posts I am sure that your intelligence is at least above average.

And yes, you have generated an interesting and popular topic.
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