Quote from: amberwaves on October 25, 2017, 03:08:15 PM
This sort of behavior is sadly quite prevalent.  It's not directly the result of testosterone, though that does exacerbate it.  Boys are often thrust into a society and culture that is hyper competitive.  Much of this behavior acts as a way of sorting out the pecking order.

The complete discounting of anything even remotely feminine is a sad result of what is typically referred to as toxic masculinity.  It is in many ways harmful to those engaging in it.  It preys upon insecurity of being outcast from the group or culture.  Not all men/boys are inclined to play along and typically this behavior fades somewhat as you get older.  For many they have learned to see anything feminine as shameful and feel strongly the need to hide it from others.  It's a show.

It does sound like your brother has some pretty crappy friends.  He has historically been the target of this sort of predatory thing by his association with you.  Some of his behavior is a way to overcompensate by being overly aggressive/macho thereby leaving no room for people to question his masculinity.  I am by no means implying your brother is anything but masculine, merely that he has insecurities about it with regard to how he shows it to society.  Though blonde hair being gay is certainly a new one.  More likely others are jealous and masking it with the easiest available insult for young men.  We sometimes forget that cis-gendered folk can still have issues with gender and presentation.  It's not because they feel the need to be the other, but that they are holding themselves up to a false, unspoken, and unachievable ideal of man/woman.

FWIW I lived through a lot of this type of toxic behavior.  Some I participated in willingly and others I just didn't care.  No one sets the rules they are a societal byproduct.  The trick as demonstrated by your father is to have the confidence to not cave to the petty thoughts and insults of others.  This saps the power out of the social bullies and in most cases leads to begrudging respect from others.

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I didn't think of that before. I guess the crap he went through himself in high school because of me could be why he needs to prove himself to other guys. That makes me really sad .

In my experience that sort of behavior is common in high school and is outgrown around age 21.   I spent my whole adult life in a hyper macho environment and I don't remember anyone ever doing those sorts of things.  What gets substituted is just trading insults back and forth; sometimes brutal insults but harmless.  It's a game and once you learn to play it's kind of fun turning insults back around onto the one that started first.  The trick is being self confident enough not to take any of it personally.

Most men with any sense at all are going to try and avoid fights because they know that there's a really good chance that someone will get hurt really bad, maybe killed.  So it's not worth it except as a last resort self defense.


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Quote from: Julia1996 on October 25, 2017, 01:35:36 PM
Hi everyone. I've said in other posts that I totally don't understand male behavior and when I think I've pretty much seen all of it I find out even more. Male behavior is weird, no doubt about that. But some of it's just totally stupid! I wrote a thread about my brother car surfing and dislocating his shoulder. Apparently if his friends dare him to do something he's obligated as a guy to do it no matter how totally stupid it is. But I'm discovering even more stupid guy rules.

My brother has blonde hair naturally. Its not super light but its a honey color. He has me dye it light brown. His reason, because blonde hair makes a guy look gay. Wait,  what?? I didn't know there are were " gay" hair colors. I told him he looks better with his natural color and he told me that was the problem because his friends tease him and call him "pretty boy" when his hair is blonde. This is one of the most totally stupid things I've ever heard! I will admit that Tyler is very handsome but not in a "pretty" or feminine way. So...you can't look too good or you're a pretty boy or ->-bleeped-<-. Who makes these dumbass rules?!!! SO STUPID!

I found Charmed on Netflix and started watching it. My brother watched it with me once and he liked it and started watching it with me. But he asked me not to mention it around his friends. When I asked him why he said because Charmed was totally a " chick show" and he didn't want them to know he watched it. Why? Is Charmed only a female or "gay" show?? Who says? We have 2 cats and they really like Tyler and sit in his lap quite a bit. But I noticed that when his friends were there he wouldn't let either of them on his lap. When I asked him why , he said he didn't want his friends to see him with a cat in his lap. He said a guy with cats looked gay. Really?? Since when?? I didn't know someone's choice in pets made them turn gay.

Once recently this guy my brother totally doesn't like told him he had a big mouth. That's not what I would consider a super insult but my brother told him why didn't he come close it for him then  and got right in the guys face. I mean literally nose to nose! I pictured a bad brawl breaking out but they just exchanged insults and stared at each other for a minute and then they both walked away. I asked my brother why on earth he wanted to fight that guy. He told me  neither of them intended to fight each other. I told him he could have fooled me. I asked why he got in the guys face then. He told me he couldn't just walk away or he would look like a pussy and that if that guy had backed down then he would have looked like a pussy. That's just insanity! 

I didn't know being a guy was so much work! Who the hell makes these guy rules?? The total stupidity boggles my mind. Evidently looking gay or feminine among straight Cis guys is a fear they all seem to share. It's very sad really.

I have this funny picture in my head of all of Tyler's friends leaving after hanging out at your house only to go home to pet their cats and watch "Charmed." Who knows one or two may even go home and wear their sister's clothes when no one is home. I hear it happens. lol
Moni

The only times I see guys NOT trying to be totally macho, is with those that have white collar careers. That being said, I don't understand them either. When fully indoctrinated, they can never understand us.

I've experienced all that you mention.  It's funny and fitting.  What really made me laugh is the pet makes you gay.  I get that a lot, but would have it no other way.  My Fanta is beautiful and if he makes people think I'm girly, Yay!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xwxhh2shdlqt5v/dsc_7309.jpg?dl=0

Bari Jo

Quote from: Bari Jo on October 25, 2017, 04:13:50 PM
I've experienced all that you mention.  It's funny and fitting.  What really made me laugh is the pet makes you gay.  I get that a lot, but would have it no other way.  My Fanta is beautiful and if he makes people think I'm girly, Yay!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xwxhh2shdlqt5v/dsc_7309.jpg?dl=0

Bari Jo

He is gorgeous.  I totally love poodles! I have a little dachshund. I like the cats ok but I've always been a dog person. I guess that makes me masculine. Lol

Quote from: Bari Jo on October 25, 2017, 04:13:50 PM
I've experienced all that you mention.  It's funny and fitting.  What really made me laugh is the pet makes you gay.  I get that a lot, but would have it no other way.  My Fanta is beautiful and if he makes people think I'm girly, Yay!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6xwxhh2shdlqt5v/dsc_7309.jpg?dl=0

Bari Jo

Beautiful poodle, although I confess that it seemed so tall, and its paws so much like little hands, that I had to enlarge the picture to convince myself that it wasn't someone wearing a poodle outfit.  I have never had a pet of my own as I can't bear it when they pass on.  When my mother's yorkie passed on, I cried several times a day for weeks.  When I talk to myself (please don't send for the men in white coats) I still pretend that I am talking to the dog.

Quote from: MaryT on October 25, 2017, 04:32:19 PM
Beautiful poodle, although I confess that it seemed so tall, and its paws so much like little hands, that I had to enlarge the picture to convince myself that it wasn't someone wearing a poodle outfit.  I have never had a pet of my own as I can't bear it when they pass on.  When my mother's yorkie passed on, I cried several times a day for weeks.  When I talk to myself (please don't send for the men in white coats) I still pretend that I am talking to the dog.

My last dog was a poodle. When their paws are clipped they do look like little hands. I used to polish my poodles nails blue and had blue bows on his ears. I also had him clipped with the Pam poms around his legs and the end of his tail. My brother used to say he didn't know if dogs felt humiliation but if they did mine was going to need therapy. Lol.  I know what you mean about losing a pet. When I had to have my poodle put to sleep it nearly killed me. I maybe wouldn't have had another dog but my dad got zoey for me and naturally I loved her as soon as I saw her.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 25, 2017, 02:22:47 PM
Before I started hrt my T levels were normal for a 16 year old. But I was never aggressive. Maybe it's his age. He's 21. My dad isn't quite as bad.

I took t last year and it was like going through puberty again. I became more aggressive and shorter fused. It's part of the soup. Nature and nurture feed one another. 

I didn't like taking it. It did put muscle back on and some strength came back, but I got really fat too. I did it for my wife. I have some ed and Peyronie's disease. At some point it won't matter anymore.


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Thinking back about my childhood years being perceived non masculine immediately triggered bullying and being told to be gay. Been on the receiving end of this behavior quite a bit.
Today I believe it is mostly insecurity in finding ones position in the hierarchy and about the own feelings about masculinity / femininity. Boys just want to prove that they are manly by this behavior...

Oh... and Charmed is awesome... watched almost all episodes... and read my sisters girl books. But then: I was always a girl...

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 25, 2017, 04:47:29 PM
My last dog was a poodle. When their paws are clipped they do look like little hands. I used to polish my poodles nails blue and had blue bows on his ears. I also had him clipped with the Pam poms around his legs and the end of his tail. My brother used to say he didn't know if dogs felt humiliation but if they did mine was going to need therapy. Lol.  I know what you mean about losing a pet. When I had to have my poodle put to sleep it nearly killed me. I maybe wouldn't have had another dog but my dad got zoey for me and naturally I loved her as soon as I saw her.

I'm sure that your poodle loved all of the attention, and he got all of the therapy he needed from you.

As for my not having a pet, that's my own failing.  There are animals out there that need love, and I know I'm being selfish and cowardly by not being brave enough to look after a pet and love it for as long as it lives and afterwards.

Yeah, pets can tear you up emotionally.  Fanta has been sick a couple of tines and I was a wreck.  Dogs can be masculine, but not mine:)

Bari Jo

QuoteApparently if his friends dare him to do something he's obligated as a guy to do it no matter how totally stupid it is.

There's a 5:1 female to male population ratio in adult Japanese macaque monkeys, because the males are constantly goading each other into behaving in dangerous/deadly activities - crossing busy roads, etc.  We're just wired to act like this. 

Your brother is 18 or 19 right? He's a kid. I understand where all the macho crap and putting up an image for his friends comes from, but the older he gets the less he will care. Straight men feel like they need to prove their masculinity all the time (and apparently masculinity is so fragile) but as they mature some of these silly rules that only an 18 year old will care about, disappear.


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As I think back, I did many different stupid things to appear 'manly'. Anything that remotely resembled 'girly' actions or response was stomped on. I wish now that I have been strong enough to be myself. I ended up mostly by myself and avoiding people.

Peer pressure is a horrible thing. Peer pressure is not about truth or fact, it's about everyone trying to fit into a specific mold and no one admitting that there isn't a mold at all.

Quote from: NamelessOne on October 26, 2017, 06:26:21 AM
As I think back, I did many different stupid things to appear 'manly'. Anything that remotely resembled 'girly' actions or response was stomped on. I wish now that I have been strong enough to be myself. I ended up mostly by myself and avoiding people.

Peer pressure is a horrible thing. Peer pressure is not about truth or fact, it's about everyone trying to fit into a specific mold and no one admitting that there isn't a mold at all.

Yup, absolutely agree.  It was peer pressure that kept me hidden and full of shame.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on October 25, 2017, 11:31:07 PM
Your brother is 18 or 19 right? He's a kid. I understand where all the macho crap and putting up an image for his friends comes from, but the older he gets the less he will care. Straight men feel like they need to prove their masculinity all the time (and apparently masculinity is so fragile) but as they mature some of these silly rules that only an 18 year old will care about, disappear.


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He's 21.

Quote from: Julia1996 on October 26, 2017, 06:49:02 AM
He's 21.

Still a baby lol.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on October 26, 2017, 06:49:42 PM
Still a baby lol.

I agree with this statement.

Somebody out there will say the same about me and being 44.  Age is relative.

I've never really got it either. For me, I think it was the crowd I fell in with.... They didn't care about your orientation, color, gender, how you dressed or most other things. All they really cared about was if you smoked and if so did you have any or get some if you didn't have it. The closest thing to a "macho pissing contest" I ever got into was if I could clear a three footer in one go... Ah, the stupidity of youth.