Quote from: Amoré on November 02, 2017, 09:09:53 AM
From young I was also very feminine. My father used to fight with my mother to just put a dress on me to intimidate her when she said leave me alone. My father constantly emotionally abused me correcting my feminine behavior. It caused so much trauma in my life that I struggled at school and felt I want to run away. It became better once my mom and my dad got divorced and I was staying with my mom. But by that time as a 11 year old I was already struggling badly with depression because of all the trauma and abuse.

My mother then got together with this crazy drug addict boyfriend that abused me also because I was so feminine. I was scared of telling my mother I want to be a girl because of what this drug addict would do to me if he found out. I fell deeper into depression where I didn't want to go to school because of how the children treated me for being feminine. So life at school and home was hell. At the age of 15 I tried to commit suicide. I then went to a psychologist that didn't believe in transitioning and advised that I go and stay with my abusive father because that would make me a man. Well after coming out to my step mother and my dad that didn't allow me to transition things turned to hell. I tried to castrate myself to get rid of the male bits by tying shoe laces around them. I injected myself with battery acid in it. I tried to cut it off and passed out in a puddle of blood. My dad just pushed on that he won't allow me to transition no matter what I do. I ended up in hospital a couple of times by mutilating myself. I almost lost the male bits and even not that or ending up in hospital for a suicide attempt changed his mind. All I got was a worse life.

My dad put a pistol in my hand and told me to shoot myself if I want to die and I must just make sure I do a good job. I decided then I must hold off out of fear of him. I didn't transition because I was scared of hurting his feeling I was scared that he would hurt me. I felt like I wanted to die at times rather than grow up being a man but I also knew if I held out long enough I could finally transition and be the woman I felt I am. I thought if I die I will never know what it is to be me.

This fear was en grained in my head and that is why I ended up trying life out as a guy. Because of the trauma that my dad caused in my life.I thought all people would act like he did and do the things he did to me. When I finally got out from under my fathers wings quite the job where we both worked and moved out of the house in the same street as he stays to another state. I had freedom and I grasped at it with everything I had.

Amoré, your father makes my father look like a saint, which he wasn't.  I'm so sorry you had to go through that as a child.  My father constantly screamed at me and beat me if I showed my femininity, or did anything else he didn't approve of, but he never handed me a gun. 

I tried the  shoelaces but preferred rubber bands.  Never had the guts to do it for more than a couple of days.  God did it hurt when I cut the rubber band off.  Never cut myself though I contemplated it often.  I also contemplated suicide.  Instead I was depressed a lot, drank a lot of alcohol and smoked a lot of pot.  I was trying to forget that the most important thing in my life was to be a woman.  I also became bulimic for most of high school and university.  I didn't want to gain anymore weight and look more masculine.

I thought society would never accept me as a woman.  I saw how gay people were treated through the AIDS crisis. I saw how family, friends and society mocked us.  I gave up and got married, hoping this would be the distraction that would solve the issue.  As we all know this never happens. 

Even now, with some sort of societal acceptance,  I feel like I will be causing my family all sorts of problems if I decide to transition.

Lisa_K I think you were extremely lucky to have the parents and support you had.

Take care all,
Paige

This is something I wonder myself, especially since I hear so many cases of trans women who get married as men and bear children... Never in a million years would I ever be okay fathering a child. To me that is the single most male act on the planet... not to mention what I would have to do just to get someone pregnant is something I could never imagine myself doing. There are trans women who go years having sex with women as men and come out years later, but I never saw myself getting even that far. Prior to transition the thought was I would probably get to thirty and kill myself... there was no man there. There was nothing.

I think that Bailey and Blanchard's taxonomy model was on the right track, but ended up becoming way too rigid and generalized and has gone way off track ever since. There is most likely a plethora of causes for transsexualism/transgender identities (some cases probably more biologically based, and others psychologically based), but what is needed is an open-minded trans community to allow scientists to properly study us without us biting back because some don't fit the traditional narrative.

Quote from: MaryT on November 02, 2017, 07:57:23 AM

One factor in common with almost all who transition by their teens is the support of at least one parent.  Some teenage transsexuals, without that support, have taken their own lives.  I think, though, that many who managed to transition in their teens, and think that they would have have killed themselves if they had not been able to, would still be alive. 

When I read or hear about people transitioning in childhood, I often admire their courage and determination but I don't think that they are necessarily more transgender or feminine than I am, just luckier.

I don't understand how you can minimize it that way. Gender dysphoria is a real struggle in our world and statistics speak for themselves. No! Not all who transition in their teens have parental support. I didn't so I had to go work but I managed to socially transition at 18 with nobody's help. Why do you think there is so many trans girls who sell their bodies? It is not because they had an accepting family that is for sure and neither are they perverted. I think calling a group of teenagers who were marginalized as children and often have no other viable choices is quite ironic.

I was a pretty boyish little girl back in the day, but that's not the same thing as being a girlish little boy.  In some ways, my assigned gender allowed me to have my cake and eat it too.  Some people had a problem with the way I dressed and acted, but most people just assumed I was a tomboy and that I'd "grow out of it."  So I wasn't presented with as stark a choice as most MTF folks are.  I'm not sure what I would have done if my parents had said, "Stop being masculine or we'll beat you."  I probably would have done what a lot of the women here have done, and hid my "wrong sex" interests to avoid being threatened. 

As for why I didn't transition earlier as an adult, I think there are several reasons . . . I'm sexually and romantically attracted to guys, and I thought that men would like me better as a woman.  (Wrong.)  Living as a masculine woman is a sort of semi-tolerated, twilight existence where nobody beats you up, but people don't approve of you, either.  It's tolerable, barely, if you're too afraid of taking "the plunge."  I think the first FTM person I ever heard of was Brandon Teena, who ended up raped and murdered.  If that's your archetype of the FTM experience, you don't want to go there.   Probably some other reasons, too.

The time of transition may also depend on one's psychology and relationships. I would have transitioned in my teens, but my relationship with my parents was one that left me feeling that, if I did come out to them, they would have me put through conversion therapy, as a result. They denied that I was bisexual when I came out to them in sophomore year of high school and condemned my open use of makeup, so I highly doubted that they would be so welcoming to the idea of having a transsexual child. Best case scenario, for me, was to do it after I turned 18, but even then, I was still living at home and afraid that, despite my adult status, they would resort to the same tactics to control me. It wasn't until I met my current partner that any of this was made possible, having someone on the outside helped my strengthen my resolve and gave me the courage to pursue this process.

I have been known for being too nice to people. So even though my parents (my mother, especially), were wrong in their treatment of my early gender-nonconformity and sexual experimentation, I could not bring myself to admit it, because their opinions dominated my own, even within my own head, because going against their expectations, to me, also meant hurting them, which I did not want to do.

Also, I thought at the time that I had "missed the boat" because I didn't tell my parents I wanted to be a girl when I was five, which at the time I thought was the criteria necessary in order for one to be able to transition. And my mom told me that trans people were born with both sex organs and that they transitioned because the doctors made a mistake when assigning them a sex... since I was not born that way I also thought that prevented me from being a part of that process...

Quote from: Aurorasky on November 02, 2017, 11:04:30 AM
I don't understand how you can minimize it that way. Gender dysphoria is a real struggle in our world and statistics speak for themselves. No! Not all who transition in their teens have parental support. I didn't so I had to go work but I managed to socially transition at 18 with nobody's help. Why do you think there is so many trans girls who sell their bodies? It is not because they had an accepting family that is for sure and neither are they perverted. I think calling a group of teenagers who were marginalized as children and often have no other viable choices is quite ironic.

But some parents do worse than just not supporting their child, they make their life hell. Leelah Alcorn's suicide comes to mind. It can be a factor. but I understand your point too. There are a lot of trans people who were born in very conservative places in eastern Turkey, whose families would instantly disown them and even attempt to kill them in some cases, and despite that they give up everything, come to Istanbul without education and live in very difficult circumstances, some do sex work for a while.. There are many variables. An individual's character, their family and environment, intensity of dysphoria etc all play a role.

Quote from: Aurorasky on November 02, 2017, 11:04:30 AM
I don't understand how you can minimize it that way. Gender dysphoria is a real struggle in our world and statistics speak for themselves. No! Not all who transition in their teens have parental support. I didn't so I had to go work but I managed to socially transition at 18 with nobody's help. Why do you think there is so many trans girls who sell their bodies? It is not because they had an accepting family that is for sure and neither are they perverted. I think calling a group of teenagers who were marginalized as children and often have no other viable choices is quite ironic.

Hi Aurorasky,

You are right, not all those who transition in their teens do it with the help of family, but, it certainly makes the process  easier.    I commend you for having the courage to do it young, it's still incredibly hard to transition at any age.  Look at all the hate aimed at Jazz Jennings and she's has lots of support.  No it's not easy.

But if you have had supportive parents, I would think it's very hard to comprehend the lives of children that have been emotionally and physically abused by their parents because they are trans.  You don't always think logically after going through something like that.  You just try to survive in the hope something will get better or you don't.

As you suggested the sex trade was an option that many have taken without family support or money.  It would have been my only option because I'm considerably older than you and it was the only way to make money back then if you were trans.   I was from a rural small town so I was oblivious to this for the most part and didn't realize this was an option.  If I had, the chances are it would have ended badly for me, probably be in prison or beaten to death or died from AIDS.  Or maybe I would have gotten lucky and survived.  Who knows.  I chose my own course of self destruction at that time.

Take care,
Paige

Quote from: Allie24 on November 02, 2017, 10:56:00 AM
This is something I wonder myself, especially since I hear so many cases of trans women who get married as men and bear children... Never in a million years would I ever be okay fathering a child. To me that is the single most male act on the planet... not to mention what I would have to do just to get someone pregnant is something I could never imagine myself doing. There are trans women who go years having sex with women as men and come out years later, but I never saw myself getting even that far. Prior to transition the thought was I would probably get to thirty and kill myself... there was no man there. There was nothing.

Hi Allie,

Perhaps this is too much information.  There are sexual positions that are more feminine for "males" than standard sexual positions.  I won't explain here but it helps.  Also if you're attracted to women, it helps if you can keep your attention on their body.  Being on HRT and having breasts and no body hair improves things quite a bit too.

As for having a child that's just no problem at all.  Well they can be a pain at times, but I felt like the other mother a lot of time, not necessarily the father.  Having children is definitely a blessing I received in this difficult life. 

I can understand why this doesn't work for everyone though.

Take care,
Paige

There is no doubt that parental involvement played a role in my early transition but I left them with little choice. Expression of my female identity was impossible to hide and according to my mother, had been before I was old enough to even remember. So much conflict was caused by this, my biological parents divorced before I'd even started 1st grade which was fine by me because the memories I do have of my father are very unpleasant.

Kindergarten was my first real rude awakening that I wasn't a girl and I didn't understand. I grew up on a farm and knew how the differences in sex related to animals but didn't connect that as having anything to do with people. Why did my parts have to decide if I was a boy or a girl? Wasn't that up to me and who but me could tell me what I felt like? Right off the bat I was singled out, picked on and bullied and I didn't really understand what all the fuss was about. I'm guessing this early social pressure is what helps drive kids to conform to gender expectations but in my case, it only drove me further away and made me withdrawn, depressed and isolated. I was a very serious child.

Like I said earlier, maybe my mom and grandparents just felt sorry for me? They did what they could to make happy which included not denying or resisting my innate nature as it was pretty impossible to do so. It's not like attempts weren't made though. It was often pointed out when I wasn't acting like a boy like I could do something about it but who I was, was not ignored or stifled at the same time. I was allowed to just be me.



By the time I was 10 years old and in the 4th grade, I had been to nine different schools and was unable to fit in and get along in any of them. This is when my folks, now mom and step-dad, first put me in therapy. This was in 1965. I don't know how during that era the focus of this wasn't to change me and make me "normal" but it wasn't. It was more to deal with the ways others were treating me with the reasons I why was being treated that way conveniently ignored even though completely obvious. I wasn't volunteering any information and I think they were afraid of putting ideas in my head by asking the right questions?

By the time I reached my teens, I was suicidal regardless of what anyone thinks. I was small, had long, pretty blonde hair well below my shoulders and was feminine, quiet, shy and sensitive and was perceived as some kind of androgynous queer gay ->-bleeped-<-got freak with a giant target on my back. I hated my life, hated the world and even though there were concerns I wasn't starting puberty, I knew what was coming and the dread of that happening was crushing. I'd been seeing therapists for years and it wasn't helping and I'd become really resentful about the whole thing because I was schlepped around between different doctors like some kind of a specimen or lab rat.

Whether it was karma or fate, an incident happened to me when I was 15 that ended up having much the same result as if I had tried to kill myself. Others tried to do it for me. This was a catalyst and turning point in my life. I knew if I had been a girl all along, none of this would have happened and it was during the month I was out of school, my parents and I got on the same page about my future. Not that any of us had the words to describe it or what to do about it because in 1970 who did but this kicked off what we now know as transition. By the time I was 16, I was routinely and consistently being gendered as a girl outside of school which made my time in school even more miserable. I had no friends, never went to a school game, dance, prom or party and was effectively grounded for life because my folks were afraid for my safety and that if there was a next time something happened, that I would be killed.

So at this point some may ask what if my parents hadn't been so accepting? Would I have been more willing to conform or be different from the way I was. My answer would be "oh, hell no!" I couldn't be. I didn't know how to be and had that been the case, I'd have ended up on the streets doing survival sex work, become a junkie or simply just ended it all. It's easy for some that don't know me to think this wouldn't have really happened but trust me, this would have been my fate without a doubt.

This was pretty clear, at least to my folks it was. Why else would they have done all the things they did to find me a doctor and get me on hormones at 17. Even in 1972 they knew this was a better option than having me dead or running away and giving ->-bleeped-<-s for food and a place to crash. They actually wanted to see me do well and make it through high school.

Yes, my parents were a big factor in my success but I would have still gone down the same path without their help except it would have been a lot uglier if I'd even made it all.

Quote from: Paige on November 02, 2017, 02:40:44 PM
Hi Allie,

Perhaps this is too much information.  There are sexual positions that are more feminine for "males" than standard sexual positions.  I won't explain here but it helps.  Also if you're attracted to women, it helps if you can keep your attention on their body.  Being on HRT and having breasts and no body hair improves things quite a bit too.

As for having a child that's just no problem at all.  Well they can be a pain at times, but I felt like the other mother a lot of time, not necessarily the father.  Having children is definitely a blessing I received in this difficult life. 

I can understand why this doesn't work for everyone though.

Take care,
Paige

I have attempted intercourse twice in my life and during both occasions I dissociated and have since forgotten what it felt like. Overall it is an act I have little interest in.

I am both attracted to women and men. My current partner is female.

I understand everyone is different. Some people are able to compartmentalize and categorize certain acts differently. I cannot separate my genitalia from my birth sex, nor can I separate its function from that of my birth sex. Were I to have sex with it, or impregnate someone with it, I would be destroyed. But there is really no chance of either happening so I have no worries.

Quote from: MaryT on November 02, 2017, 08:47:11 AM
The "great question" answers itself - the support of one's folks.  Although almost all transsexual people contemplate suicide, the only people who can say for certain that they would have killed themselves if they hadn't been able to transition in childhood are dead.

I cannot agree with this conclusion.  I was not able to transition in childhood,  nor am I dead. The fact is that l was well into my transition when I informed my Mother that l was going to have to undergo a surgical transition. She was understandably shocked but nevertheless assured me of her love and support. What l am saying is that l was  undergoing this procedure irrespective of anyone's support or approval.
No doubt there is an element of "luck" or good fortune. However I think it is irrational to discount the overwhelming drive to survive.

Quote from: Lisa_K on November 02, 2017, 03:19:13 PM
Yes, my parents were a big factor in my success but I would have still gone down the same path without their help except it would have been a lot uglier if I'd even made it all.

Hi Lisa,

I don't doubt for a minute what you said,  your story is remarkable but take a second and imagine every time you did something like a girl, you were mocked or yelled at or spanked or hit with a belt or some other object?  This would happen to you before you were kindergarten and all the while you were growing up.   I'm not sure how this would have changed things for you but I know it certainly affected my bravery and willingness not to conform to family and societal pressures.

Take care,
Paige

"There are many variables. An individual's character, their family and environment, intensity of dysphoria etc all play a role."

Thank you.  This sums it up nicely.

People here are minimizing the problems of those who transition early while validating the concerns and worries that kept those who transitioned late from transitioning earlier, stuff that is lived every day by younger transitioners. Can anybody see the contradiction?

Quote from: Paige on November 02, 2017, 04:09:13 PM
... take a second and imagine every time you did something like a girl, you were mocked or yelled at or spanked or hit with a belt or some other object?  This would happen to you before you were kindergarten and all the while you were growing up.

Not hard to imagine at all. This pretty much sums up treatment by my father before my parents were divorced. That's why they got divorced. Growing up, this describes the treatment I got from other kids in school every single day from the time I started school. Mocked, teased, bullied, hit, punched, ostracized and beat up on the regular. I was seriously assaulted twice and nearly killed the second time. Didn't make a damn bit of difference. Maybe even emboldened me or strengthened my resolve?

Quote from: Aurorasky on November 02, 2017, 04:39:51 PM
People here are minimizing the problems of those who transition early while validating the concerns and worries that kept those who transitioned late from transitioning earlier, stuff that is lived every day by younger transitioners. Can anybody see the contradiction?

I admire your courage and determination.

Quote from: Lisa_K on November 02, 2017, 04:42:10 PM
Not hard to imagine at all. This pretty much sums up treatment by my father before my parents were divorced. That's why they got divorced. Growing up, this describes the treatment I got from other kids in school every single day from the time I started school. Mocked, teased, bullied, hit, punched, ostracized and beat up on the regular. I was seriously assaulted twice and nearly killed the second time. Didn't make a damn bit of difference. Maybe even emboldened me or strengthened my resolve?

Hi Lisa,

Wow you're way stronger than me.  I caved after all the abuse.

Take care,
Paige

Quote from: Aurorasky on November 02, 2017, 04:39:51 PM
People here are minimizing the problems of those who transition early while validating the concerns and worries that kept those who transitioned late from transitioning earlier, stuff that is lived every day by younger transitioners. Can anybody see the contradiction?

Hi Aurorasky,

Nobody is minimizing the problems of early transitioners, it's a daunting task at any age.  Most are just trying to explain why they couldn't transition early even if they wanted to and have given their reasons.  They are also saying having any sort of parental support is vital to early transition especially if you were unlucky enough to be born 30, 40, 50+ years ago.

Take care,
Paige

Quote from: Paige on November 02, 2017, 04:49:12 PM
Wow you're way stronger than me.  I caved after all the abuse.

It's not that. It's just that I had nowhere to cave to.

Quote from: Lisa_K on November 02, 2017, 01:56:57 AM

Is this all just a matter of intensity and timing? I understand that those in their 30's, 40's, 50's and even 60's can be just as driven and desperate to transition but I have a hard time understanding if a person feels so strongly about this, enough to throw away wives, family, careers and security, what mental machinations were involved that allowed them to live with it for so long? How can some people repress and ignore something that to me was as fundamental and important as breathing? For someone like me, no amount of parental or societal pressure, bullying, beating or ostracization could make me be anything other than myself. I did not know how to be anything else and why should I even have had to? Maybe I was just really stubborn or not too smart? Maybe I was just too weak to resist or simply selfish?

I started transitioning last year at the age of 53.  This was not my first attempt at transitioning.  It was my fourth.  Prior to 1982, when I was 19 years old, I did not know that it was even possible to transition.  For me, growing up in the 1960's and 1970's, becoming a girl was in the realm of science fiction.  In 1982 I saw a rerun of the "60 Minutes" episode about Renee Richards.  That was when I first learned that transition was even possible.  That begat attempt #1, which consisted of going to the Behavioral Science section of my college library (Cal Poly Pomona), reading everything I could find about gender transition, and finding out that there were two, count 'em, two, places in the entire U.S. that had any kind of transition resources:  Johns Hopkins University and Stanford University.  I burned a lot of my meager funds on long distance phone calls finding out that I would have to relocate to one of those places, live on my own, and pay for my transition out of my own pocket.  No health insurance for that sort of thing back then.  End of attempt #1.

Attempt #2 took place in 1989, after I finished law school, took and passed the bar exam, and got a job as a lawyer.  This time I had access to the University Research Library at UCLA, and much better resources that were more local.  I found the DSM III, self diagnosed with what was then referred to as Gender Identity Disorder, and started working the local phone directories in order to find a therapist.  I was about to call one, and decided to go back over my research just so that I could be sure of myself going in.  In the fine print in the DSM III (remember this was 1989), it said that Gender Identity Disorder was a mental illness.  So I called the state bar to find out what would happen to my law license if I got diagnosed with a mental illness.  The girl on the other end of the confidential hotline asked which mental illness, so I told her, and she said that probably would make a difference.  End of attempt #2.

Attempt #3 came after my first marriage ended in 1998.  I was living alone.  I set up an online female persona, started putting together a small stash of clothing, started dressing at home, and started working the internet for resources.  I found a therapist and got ready to go.  Then fate intervened.  I was in court, and I saw a young transgender girl, dressed and presenting female, who had picked up a suspended driver's license violation under her dead name.  The judge was nasty and abusive toward her, kept calling her "sir" in a nasty tone of voice.

I was going through a divorce and a custody fight over my son, and I realized that transition at that point would mean the loss of my son and my law practice as well if that was how judges were going to treat me.  End of Attempt #3.

In 2005, I started having chest pains, irregular heartbeats, high blood pressure, neck pains, jaw pains, tingly feelings in my limbs, and shortness of breath.  My doctor sent me to a cardiologist, and I passed all the tests.  My doctor told me it was panic attacks and they were probably work related.  She put me on antidepressants, which did not work, and beta blockers, which were partially effective, and tranquilizers, which did not work ( and I hated them).  I white knuckled it through the attacks for a lot of years, until they got so bad I almost ended up house bound.  She tried anti anxiety drugs, and those did not work.  It was then that I had the conversation with my wife, and entered therapy.

Hormone therapy resolved the panic attacks and just about every other medical problem I have ever had.  I wish with all my heart that I could have transitioned at a young age, but it just was not possible, and I hope from my experience you see why.  Sadly, supportive parents and transitioning young are still unattainable luxuries for the majority of the transgender community.

It took until very recently to understand why my father was constantly grilling me about dating girls when I was 14, why he stopped me from getting a teaching credential when I finished college and forced me to go to law school, why he relentlessly pressured me to date women all during college and law school, and why he pressured me to get married and have children after I finished law school.  It all went back to the time when I was seven years old and I told my parents I wanted to be a girl.  My father had a stroke in 2009 and can no longer speak, but the expression on his face when he recently saw my hairless face, long hair and pierced ears was all that I really needed to see.

Your parents made all the difference in the world.

Peace and hugs, Carly