Quote from: Charlie Nicki on November 14, 2017, 08:29:41 PM
Thanks Jess!


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My birthday yesterday and I will begin Hormones Replacement in two weeks.

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on November 14, 2017, 06:56:04 PM
My birthday is on July as well but I started HRT in June... Can I still be a July girl?


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I'm right there too.  Birthday in July and started hrt late June.  We are one giant happy hen house.

Bari Jo

Quote from: Charlotte F on November 14, 2017, 06:07:25 PM
Another July girl here (19th) but unfortunately a Capricorn which I guess makes me an old goat!

I hadn't really noticed changes in my face until I read this thread.  Looking at photos from four months ago, I can't believe how different I am.  I guess when you look at your face every day, you don't necessarily register all those tiny, gradual changes

LaRell - you're looking great with the new hairstyle

   I'm a Scorpio. ha ha.  So is my wife.  And sometimes we fight like two scorpions going for the kill.  Ha ha. 

  Yes, isn't it trippy the changes in your face that you don't even realize?  You are right, you see yourself in the mirror every day, but the changes are so gradual, that our mind changes with them to the point where we don't even notice it, until we come across a picture of ourselves from before HRT, and WOW!  I can't really spot the differences so much, but just mentally I can tell that does not look like me anymore.  On the first day I started HRT, I started taking pictures of my face.  I was trying to do it every day because my intention is, after a year or two, to make a timelapse video so I can visually see the gradual changes over time.  I have missed a lot of days, but that probably won't be noticeable since the changes are so gradual that a few days between pictures is not going to make much difference.

by

image1 by

image21 by

image3 by

Quote from: LaRell on November 15, 2017, 04:57:19 PM

   I'm a Scorpio. ha ha.  So is my wife.  And sometimes we fight like two scorpions going for the kill.  Ha ha. 

  Yes, isn't it trippy the changes in your face that you don't even realize?  You are right, you see yourself in the mirror every day, but the changes are so gradual, that our mind changes with them to the point where we don't even notice it, until we come across a picture of ourselves from before HRT, and WOW!  I can't really spot the differences so much, but just mentally I can tell that does not look like me anymore.  On the first day I started HRT, I started taking pictures of my face.  I was trying to do it every day because my intention is, after a year or two, to make a timelapse video so I can visually see the gradual changes over time.  I have missed a lot of days, but that probably won't be noticeable since the changes are so gradual that a few days between pictures is not going to make much difference.

beforeandafter by LaRell , on Flickr

OMG your changes are HUGE. Congrats!!


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Quote from: LaRell on November 15, 2017, 04:57:19 PM

   I'm a Scorpio. ha ha.  So is my wife.  And sometimes we fight like two scorpions going for the kill.  Ha ha. 

  Yes, isn't it trippy the changes in your face that you don't even realize?  You are right, you see yourself in the mirror every day, but the changes are so gradual, that our mind changes with them to the point where we don't even notice it, until we come across a picture of ourselves from before HRT, and WOW!  I can't really spot the differences so much, but just mentally I can tell that does not look like me anymore.  On the first day I started HRT, I started taking pictures of my face.  I was trying to do it every day because my intention is, after a year or two, to make a timelapse video so I can visually see the gradual changes over time.  I have missed a lot of days, but that probably won't be noticeable since the changes are so gradual that a few days between pictures is not going to make much difference.

by

Wow - I can't believe how much you've changed.  Very envious indeed!

HUGE changes,  fab! X

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  So I had more blood work done the other day.  Here are some graphs of my results since I started, and having three blood tests since starting.

Here are my Estradiol levels:
Estradiol Graph by

And here are my Testosterone levels:
Testosterone Graph by

  Notice my Testosterone has made a very nice huge drop.  My Estradiol however, was really low, then spiked way up, and then went way down again even though I was still taking the same dosages as when my Estradiol levels were so high.  The only difference is, the test where they came back really high, I had taken two doses that morning about 30 minutes before the blood test, thinking there's no way it could affect the results because I did not think there was any way for it to get into my system that fast after taking it.  But apparently it did, and made such a huge spike that my Endocrinologist was trying to cut my dose in half until I explained what happened, so she decided to keep me at the same dosage and see what the next bloodwork showed.  Well.....now the most recent bloodwork, I did not want to skew the results again, so I waited til after the having my blood drawn to take that mornings dose.  So it had been about 12 hours since my last dose.  And as you can see, my Estradiol level was WAY down.  So weird!  I would have thought it would have stayed in my system longer than that.  Seems weird that it can have the kinds of results it has, just from the spikes you reach shortly after taking it.  I would think in order to have any decent results, that it would need to maintain a fairly consistent higher level.

  So anyway, after the most recent results, my endocrinologist office called and told me to increase my Estradiol dosage to three times a day instead of just two.  That made me super happy!  I've already seen amazing results, so I love the thought of keeping the levels higher, more consistently.  I am still kind of irritated by my Endocrinologists instruction to NOT take the Estradiol sublingually.  The research I've found online all says that is a far better, safer way to take it.  It absorbs better, and bypasses your liver.  So I feel much better about taking it that way, but she says "No, just swallow it."  If she is worried about my levels being too high taking it that way, I don't think that's really a problem since my blood work so far has indicated that sure it spikes, but then drops way down anyway.  Is that spike really going to cause me any negative issues?  My bloodwork shows that all of my other levels and kidney function and things are all perfectly fine.

I have seen similar spikes and valleys before and like you, i suspect it was the timing of taking the meds. I was up to about 950 one time and the doc also expressed some caution.

My Estradiol is taken about 9AM and 9PM most days, so theoretically it should be somewhat the same, with lowest levels right before those times.

Quote from: LaRell on November 29, 2017, 01:11:49 PM
 
  So anyway, after the most recent results, my endocrinologist office called and told me to increase my Estradiol dosage to three times a day instead of just two.  That made me super happy!  I've already seen amazing results, so I love the thought of keeping the levels higher, more consistently.  I am still kind of irritated by my Endocrinologists instruction to NOT take the Estradiol sublingually.  The research I've found online all says that is a far better, safer way to take it.  It absorbs better, and bypasses your liver.  So I feel much better about taking it that way, but she says "No, just swallow it."  If she is worried about my levels being too high taking it that way, I don't think that's really a problem since my blood work so far has indicated that sure it spikes, but then drops way down anyway.  Is that spike really going to cause me any negative issues?  My bloodwork shows that all of my other levels and kidney function and things are all perfectly fine.

nice, I'm glad you get an increase! You started a couple weeks before me and I'm going back to the doctor in 2 weeks and I hope to get an increase as well! Did your doctor say anything about why they want you to split your dose into 3 times a day? My doctor increased mine in september and I asked if I should spread it out and he said I can just take it all at once (he told me to take my estrogen sublingually though). You have me a little worried with that spike too, I'm going in friday to get my bloodwork done, I always take my estrogen as soon as I get up before I eat anything, I'm wondering if I should wait to take it until after the blood is drawn, I can't remember what I did last time!

Quote from: Maddie86 on November 29, 2017, 02:49:08 PM
nice, I'm glad you get an increase! You started a couple weeks before me and I'm going back to the doctor in 2 weeks and I hope to get an increase as well! Did your doctor say anything about why they want you to split your dose into 3 times a day? My doctor increased mine in september and I asked if I should spread it out and he said I can just take it all at once (he told me to take my estrogen sublingually though). You have me a little worried with that spike too, I'm going in friday to get my bloodwork done, I always take my estrogen as soon as I get up before I eat anything, I'm wondering if I should wait to take it until after the blood is drawn, I can't remember what I did last time!

  You should go read this study at this website about that.:  http://transascity.org/sublingual-versus-oral-estrogen/

They did some pretty extensive research to see how estradiol is absorbed when taken orally as opposed to sublingually, and also, about halfway down the page, they tested the differences between taking it all at once, as opposed to spreading it out throughout the day.  You can see in the graph, that when it is taken all at once, you get a really high spike initially, and then slowly tapers off throughout the rest of the day.  When taken spread out over 8 hour periods, you can see that you get a more consistently higher spike throughout the day, which then tapers off to levels lower at times than when it was all taken at the same time.  However, the article goes on to say that the graph could be a little misleading, because supposedly our bodies don't have the ability to handle that much estradiol anyway, so anything above the 1,000 pg/ml is wasted anyway.  So they did another graph, assuming that extra estradiol is wasted anyway, and the second graph would appear to support spreading them out through the day far more.   But, as this person admits, there may be other aspects not taken into account.  But it is some very interesting research for sure, and worth considering.  Whether it is better to take it all at once as opposed to spread out over the day like my Endo suggested, I really don't know.  I personally feel like spreading it out over the day seems to make more sense to me.  That is unless the spikes are really where the changes happen, and in that case a much larger spike seems like it might be more beneficial especially since it appears based on the graph, that the levels still remain at a decent level throughout the rest of the day even when taken all at once.  So I just don't know.  Maybe some days I might experiment and take them all at once and see if I feel any different.   

  It's funny, because already, about 2 hours after taking one dose, my breasts start to tingle and hurt.  It happens every time about 2 hours after taking the Estradiol pill.  So I know for sure something is happening.

Quote from: LaRell on November 29, 2017, 01:11:49 PM
I am still kind of irritated by my Endocrinologists instruction to NOT take the Estradiol sublingually.  The research I've found online all says that is a far better, safer way to take it.  It absorbs better, and bypasses your liver.  So I feel much better about taking it that way, but she says "No, just swallow it."  If she is worried about my levels being too high taking it that way, I don't think that's really a problem since my blood work so far has indicated that sure it spikes, but then drops way down anyway.  Is that spike really going to cause me any negative issues?  My bloodwork shows that all of my other levels and kidney function and things are all perfectly fine.

I took estradiol sublingually vs orally and where it counts (well-being, breast growth, feminization), there was absolutely no difference.

As regards to high levels of estradiol, studies show much higher levels than this, even in populations whose age is quite advanced and health compromised, are relatively safe. I've been on levels consistently between 1,000-4,000 pg/ml for three years (estradiol never dropped under 1,000) and I had no issues, blood tests came back fine. In pregnant women, the risk of DVT is 0.1% despite levels between 1,000-75,000. And the following study,

Horm Metab Res. 1994 Sep;26(9):428-31.

"Thirteen osteopenic women received (...) estradiol valerate (...) by intramuscular injections once a week for 6 months (so called "pseudopregnancy")."

"Six patients were peri- or postmenopausal (49.5 + 4.8 years of age, group A)"

"The duration of the therapy was 6, and in 4 patients 9 months"

"Estradiol increased from 34.8 +/- 7.5 pg/ml to 3226 +/- 393 pg/ml after 3 months and to 2552 +/- 254 pg/ml after 6 months, respectively, in group A."

"In group B estradiol increased from 27.8 +/- 6.5 pg/ml to 3028 +/- 728 after 3 and to 2491 +/- 684 pg/ml after 6 months."

"We have experience with therapeutic pseudopregnancy in about 200 patients with mammahypoplasia (Lauritzen 1992). Its rate of objective and subjective tolerance is excellent."

"Investigations of lipids, liver enzymes and haemostasiology to be published later will show the absence of unwanted metabolic effects of this regimen."

"In conclusion, our data show, that the treatment (...) by means of high parenteral estrogen-progestogen depot injections is effective. Virtually no side effects occurred. The therapy is well accepted by the patients."

Quote from: LaRell on November 29, 2017, 03:36:14 PMthe article goes on to say that the graph could be a little misleading, because supposedly our bodies don't have the ability to handle that much estradiol anyway, so anything above the 1,000 pg/ml is wasted anyway.

Unsubstantiated assertion because 1) no such studies demonstrate this 2) pregnant women have levels higher than this, up to 75,000 pg/ml and if the human body couldn't handle levels above 1,000 pg/ml, why does the body produce such high amounts?

QuoteI personally feel like spreading it out over the day seems to make more sense to me.

More constant levels, less fluctuations might be better mentally because as levels drop quite precipitously, we might start to experience PMS  .

Quote from: KayXo on November 29, 2017, 05:29:43 PM
Unsubstantiated assertion because 1) no such studies demonstrate this 2) pregnant women have levels higher than this, up to 75,000 pg/ml and if the human body couldn't handle levels above 1,000 pg/ml, why does the body produce such high amounts?

More constant levels, less fluctuations might be better mentally because as levels drop quite precipitously, we might start to experience PMS  .

Thanks for the reply!  Yes I have seen those stats before and I agree.  I don't understand why some act like levels that high could be so dangerous, when there are so many cases of women having levels that high and having no ill effects.  Research and studies are a very interesting thing.  I try not to take any of them as absolute fact.  But I love to learn what various research and tests have shown for sure. 

  Oh and yes, I don't want to be getting the PMS!  I already have a wife that gives me my fair share of that!  he he

Quote from: LaRell on November 29, 2017, 03:36:14 PM
  You should go read this study at this website about that.:  http://transascity.org/sublingual-versus-oral-estrogen/

They did some pretty extensive research to see how estradiol is absorbed when taken orally as opposed to sublingually, and also, about halfway down the page, they tested the differences between taking it all at once, as opposed to spreading it out throughout the day.  You can see in the graph, that when it is taken all at once, you get a really high spike initially, and then slowly tapers off throughout the rest of the day.  When taken spread out over 8 hour periods, you can see that you get a more consistently higher spike throughout the day, which then tapers off to levels lower at times than when it was all taken at the same time.  However, the article goes on to say that the graph could be a little misleading, because supposedly our bodies don't have the ability to handle that much estradiol anyway, so anything above the 1,000 pg/ml is wasted anyway.  So they did another graph, assuming that extra estradiol is wasted anyway, and the second graph would appear to support spreading them out through the day far more.   But, as this person admits, there may be other aspects not taken into account.  But it is some very interesting research for sure, and worth considering.  Whether it is better to take it all at once as opposed to spread out over the day like my Endo suggested, I really don't know.  I personally feel like spreading it out over the day seems to make more sense to me.  That is unless the spikes are really where the changes happen, and in that case a much larger spike seems like it might be more beneficial especially since it appears based on the graph, that the levels still remain at a decent level throughout the rest of the day even when taken all at once.  So I just don't know.  Maybe some days I might experiment and take them all at once and see if I feel any different.   

  It's funny, because already, about 2 hours after taking one dose, my breasts start to tingle and hurt.  It happens every time about 2 hours after taking the Estradiol pill.  So I know for sure something is happening.

ooo, thanks for posting that, I learned a few things! I'm gunna start trying to make the pills last longer under my tongue! I'm gunna ask my doctor again if he ups my dosage if I should split it up or not. I take the estrogen first thing in the morning, if I split it up I feel like I might forget to take it later in the day, I know there were a couple days where I forgot to take my spiro after taking the estrogen. oops

It's been a few days now of taking the estradiol 3 times a day......  I actually feel a LOT better!  I feel like my mood is maintaining more consistently throughout the whole day now whereas before, I was finding myself experiencing different emotions throughout the day, particularly toward the end of the day where it is reaching that 12 hours since my last dose.  Now that I have only 8 hours between doses, I feel like I am maintaining a lot more level emotions, and the feelings of euphoria that the Estrogen gives me, is now lasting the entire day instead of only coming on for a while shortly after taking the dose.  This is very very good!

  Also.....I've been starting to wear a 36A bra now and then, and the cup was not quite filled, but now, it is starting to fill in a lot more, and my breast pretty much completely fills my cupped hand.  I definitely have to be careful not to wear tight tee shirts if I don't want them to be exposed.  A few weeks ago I went to yoga with my wife, and I wore this tight, womens workout shirt I bought at Costco.  I did not wear a bra that day, and it wasn't til after yoga that I looked at myself in the mirror and thought "Oh crap! Maybe I shoudln't have wore this shirt!"  Ha ha

With no bra on:


And with 36A bra:
 

I am quite happy with my breast growth results already at only 4.5 months on HRT!  Of course, I did have a little help.  I used to weigh 334 pounds, and in 2009 I had an extremely successful weight loss surgery, and have been maintaining in the 160's for quite some time now.  I literally lost over half of myself.  But when I was big, I had some very large breasts.  When I lost all of the weight, I was left with very deflated balloons on my chest.  So now, they are effectively "re-inflating" and no longer super saggy, flat things.  So I don't know if the fact that I had big breasts 8 years ago when I was 334 pounds, helps any now or not.  But I will take it!


 

^I probably told you this before, but that's an amazing transformation.

Phenomenal transformation - I had only seen the more recent before and after pictures!

Glad to hear it's working out nicely with the change of dose.  I've been having similar thoughts in my yoga outfit.  It's probably about time to start wearing a sports bra - I had just been resisting as I thought the outline of the bra through my top would be more likely to 'out me' than not wearing one