Quote from: HughE on January 23, 2018, 03:43:14 PM


I disagree, especially since for many of us the culprit appears to be artificial hormones (such as DES), that were given to our pregnant mothers. Although DES itself was pulled of the market long ago, there are other hormones that continue to be used during pregnancy, and good theoretical reasons for thinking that they also could be making people trans.

My mother was not given DES, and I am still transgender.  Few trans people I know are aware of a DES connection. None of our younger trans sisters are trans because of DES, because the drug was off market before they were conceived.  The studies you cite demonstrate that decisions on gender, done without input of the patient on the basis of surgical convenience are problematic.  Most of us are not intersex, and extrapolating beyond the study cohort is generally a bad idea.

My heart goes out to each of you that has come to this place through a life filled with trauma.  I am fortunate that I did not but as a therapist I have worked with and come to somewhat specialize in trauma.  I knew that I was different when I was quite young, certainly before I reached puberty.  I did the usual cross dressing with my mothers clothes.  I wanted a vagina and had fantasies about something happening that I got one.  I never put the transgender label on my thoughts.  This is something that I find quite funny because I knew about transgender.  I lived quite successfully as a male, sometimes bing somewhat boorish and ill mannered (I am not proud of that.).

In the research there is not a causal factor in becomeing transgender that is from trauma.  That is not to say that trauma doesn't color our development as a person and if transgender as a transgender person.

For me at this time in my deveopment I believe that it is likely that there is a biological element that plays a very strong role in becoming trans.  Our identity is complex and includes our genetic make up (yes we can blame our parents to some degree—if this helps  ). There is also a likely element of prenatal exposure to chemicals or hormones, or maybe a lack of.  And of course there is a very complex relationship to how we were raised and the life experiences that we come with. 

While it is largely anecdotal I think that there are enough instances of young children strongly identifying as the opposite gender while raised very much as their natal gender to suggest that there is a very strong element of being born this way. 

Way did I wait until I was 66 to identify as transgender?  Early on it had to do with a lack of context.  Frankly even up until my wife said I bet you would like a vagina I had never put my feelings or for that matter actions into words.  Without words we don't have identity.

Yes, I was bullied.  I fought back ruthlessly.  I did all the male things, sports, mountain climbing, motorcycles (yes I know, women like them too), sex, getting drunk, etc.  But I had gay men hitting on me.  I had lesbians saying things like "you are like me" and not really understanding.  My wife even said that I am "queenish".

The understanding that I have come to is that I am the way that I am.  How I express it is up to me. 

Now that I have rambled on I do want to say that I hope that all of you who have had lives filled with abuse will find peace in yourselves.  You can definitely overcome your trauma.  Gender dysphoria is a part of your experience and is not separate from the rest of your experience but it is not caused by that experience.  I hope that you are able come to terms with all of your experience and find joy in who you are.

Quote from: rmaddy on January 23, 2018, 05:14:41 PM
My mother was not given DES, and I am still transgender.  Few trans people I know are aware of a DES connection. None of our younger trans sisters are trans because of DES, because the drug was off market before they were conceived.  The studies you cite demonstrate that decisions on gender, done without input of the patient on the basis of surgical convenience are problematic.  Most of us are not intersex, and extrapolating beyond the study cohort is generally a bad idea.

Millions of people were prenatally exposed to DES (it was used in as many as 10 million pregnancies worldwide), even if not many of them know about it. Millions more have been exposed to progestins. The point I've been trying to make though, is that any drug that interferes with testicular testosterone production could potentially do the same thing. That includes the entire progestin class of hormones, corticosteroids, epilepsy drugs such as phenobarbital and phenytoin, and possibly even the OTC painkillers paracetamol, aspirin and ibuprofen.

It's true that not many of us have been given an intersex diagnosis by a doctor, but that's because doctors very rarely hand out intersex diagnoses to male-assigned babies, unless there are very pronounced genital anomalies present. Things like hypospadias and undescended testicles don't normally result in an intersex diagnosis, even though they're actually the result of intersexed development in the fetus. Also, probably a good half of the MTF transgender people I've talked to about it (DES exposed or not), seem to have symptoms of eunuchoidism, which is a group of physical characteristics that result from having hormone levels intermediate between male and female during childhood and puberty, and is something normally associated with intersex conditions.

Unfortunately we live in a largely abusive world 

I've been abused in several ways, mentally, physically, sexually

I recognize it but try not to dwell, I did learn however to pick up on the characteristics of abusive individuals and how to avoid compromising situations

Some events such as the molestation, rape and attempted rape of my person probably have contributed to my feelings of dysphoria but I believe I would have held a degree of diphoria even without the taunting, beatings and other abuses

I hope my perspective might help in some way

Hugs