Male fail?? Well I've failed as a male all my life. Oh you mean taken for a woman... Never.

Hugs,
  Laurie

Laurie. I love this new definition of mail fail.
I think it should be adopted forthwith and throughout.

I hereby second the motion.

Quote from: Janes Groove on February 05, 2018, 09:17:47 PM
Laurie. I love this new definition of male fail.
I think it should be adopted forthwith and throughout.

I hereby second the motion.

  I kinda liked it myself as a light hearted response. But the truth of it still torments me.

I know. I always failed as a man too.  At least now I know why.

About 2 years before I started HRT, someone I knew saw me in the distance, and approached me to ask out on a date. When he recognized me, he got peeved at himself, and I realized he was just someone that approached just about anyone that appeared female.

After I had my tracheal shave, people finally stopped looking me straight in the throat and calling me "sir".

Not exactly male-fail, but more stigmatization: I get questioned about my gender literally every day by family, friends, and strangers (mostly strangers as I have a public life). I am not out yet, so it embarrasses my wife. I guess that's a good sign I'll pass?

It wasn't until my first round of ffs (type 3 forehead + rhinoplasty), and the few times I tried to go out dressed in my old duds I still got ma'amed by most people; ironically though I got called sir more often when dressing feminine, which was probably because I didn't start dresssing femininely in public until after the FFS, so my walk, voice, mannerisms, *confidence in myself*, and basic overall feminine presentation still needed a lot of work. So FFS alone will not guarantee that you pass; we need the complete package.

I'm pre HRT but living full time for a year now. About 2 months in I was gendered correctly, now it's rare that I'm not.
A lot of it is down to being comfortable in your own skin. If I don't try to match up to stereotypes and just be myself I pass. If my brain gets in the way or dysphoria descends on me I just confuse people or make them uncomfortable.

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

I would occasionally get male fail years before I started HRT.  Deb and I were walking through the booths at Pride one year.  I was wearing, jeans, sneakers, t-shirt, a white ball cap with my hair in a pony-tail and no makeup.  When we passed the booth for the Feminist Women's Clinic, one of the women working the booth stepped out and addressed us as, "Ladies," while putting stickers on each of our shirts.  The stickers read, "Carpe Boobum" (Seize the Boob), a reminder to do monthly breast exams.

Another time I had been helping a lesbian friend build a rail around her porch.  We took a break to drive around to the corner store for a Coke.  I was hot & dirty, soaking wet with perspiration and the only feminine thing about me at the time was a pair of gold ball earrings.  When I walked into the store I passed three kids about 11-12 years old and I heard one of them say, "Hey, that was a lady!" much to the delight of my friend who got a big laugh out of it.

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on January 25, 2018, 09:10:33 PM
That's not what a male fail is at all.  Male fail is when people start calling you by female pronouns while presenting male.  It's not necessarily a constant thing.

We are talking about the same thing I think, Colleen.

I have never heard of anyone who was presenting male but was being gendered female after just three months of hormones.

It took me pretty much three years of hormones and FFS before I reached a point where I would still be gendered female even when wearing male clothes and presenting male.


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It started happening to me in month 4.  On vacation in Ireland of all places.

Well, random update. Pre-everything and just got maamed at US customs. Must be body language because even my hair was up.

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on January 23, 2018, 07:04:54 PM
So far that's exactly what I've found as well.

If you waddle like a duck, act like a duck, dress like a duck, and even better quack like a duck then people are going to assume you're a duck even if you're a slightly fuzzy and kind of goofy looking duck.  (like me with stubble before an electrolysis session)

Confidence is huge as well.  Going out of your way to avoid eye contact and whatnot merely arouses suspicion.

This is so true!

I started getting male fail three weeks ago and it was both exciting and bothersome at first. It's happening a lot at work. So what changed?

Wasn't the long hair.
Wasn't the pierced ears.
Wasn't the women's jeans.
Wasn't the androgynous grey/purple backpack.
Wasn't the mini boobs.

It WAS the attitude. I am full time outside of work and the way I carry myself, the body language and speech patterns is what is causing male fail. It happens early on in the week more often as I relearn how to act like a boy. Now three weeks later, I no longer care who wonders what. I'm pretty sure there's a ton of rumors about me going around work and I'm perfectly ok with that as it turns out. Prior to starting the transitioning process that would have truly mortified me!

We learn far more about humans and perception than I ever thought possible on this journey.

Quote from: Colleen_definitely on February 22, 2018, 07:15:28 AM
It started happening to me in month 4.  On vacation in Ireland of all places.

I guess age and genetics play a part - how your sex hormone receptors react to estrogens, how long you've been exposed to testosterone, what your natural body shape was before hormones, etc.

I know some androgynous looking cis people (mostly Asians) who get misgendered from time to time. And I've heard of it with some masculine lesbians and transmen I know. Just not with western transwomen in such a short period of time. And I've watched a LOT of transwomen go through transition - from starting off coming out at work to completely stealth (even with their boyfriends).

How long before transition did you go through 'male' puberty?

Do the people who are gendering you female (when you're presenting male) change pronouns or correct themselves during the interaction?

Yes your starting point definitely plays a huge role.  I started at 35.  I haven't presented male at all since October of last year, and even then it was only at work since my name change in September. 

Currently I don't get misgendered by anyone who didn't know me from before.

But in any case, yes it absolutely did happen to me that people gendered me female while presenting male after only 4 months of hormones and 5 months of facial hair removal.  I had a very thick beard as well. 

If you're curious, my avatar is an untouched photo of myself.  No faceapp or photoshop.

Nearing 6 months on hrt things seem to finally be swinging the opposite direction for me. I don't know if it's attitude or the way I look. I don't get "sir" at all. I used to be super sensitive about it. My hair is growing out but I see a lot of guys with long hair, even longer than mine.
I'm nervous to go back to work because people will be so confused. I'll be closer to 7 months by then, but that's not my problem. Maybe my job will be easier if people are confused by me lol I just really need the money I don't even wanna go back (since they knew me as a male).
I feel like when I do go back, there's no way they'll still see a male. If they do misgender me then I'm going to make sure I stick around until I go full time completely under the radar. I'm not coming out officially at work. When I legally change my name I'll think of something.

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I have always had male-fail... especially as a young boy and through my early college years, I was a skinny, short, runt with no muscle or bulk to speak of, a soft looking girlish face and a voice to match.  It was a nightmare for me as a male... especially around my classmates that were all MALE in every way. 
All of that was of great value as I transitioned.
The first picture is a "before" picture taken at a game while in college.   The second picture is me after my celebration makeover upon completion of my 3rd year of HRT at the beginning of March this year.

Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on March 20, 2018, 03:40:25 PM
I have always had male-fail... especially as a young boy and through my early college years, I was a skinny, short, runt with no muscle or bulk to speak of, a soft looking girlish face and a voice to match.  It was a nightmare for me as a male... especially around my classmates that were all MALE in every way. 
All of that was of great value as I transitioned.
The first picture is a "before" picture taken at a game while in college.   The second picture is me after my celebration makeover upon completion of my 3rd year of HRT at the beginning of March this year.

Big success Danielle!  Wonderful!

About 15 months into HRT & electrolysis. I'd grown my hair out to just below shoulders by then

Quote from: Jessica on January 23, 2018, 08:56:45 AM
I know most women think catcalls are rude and obnoxious, but I'm looking forward to being whistled at.  Is that just residual male thoughts that think women like it and take it as a compliment?  In my male life, I would never consider disrespecting a woman like that, but as a woman it kinda thrills me.

Well, let's see if you change your mind when it happens because it's often terrifying. And more often that that it's just a bit of a pain.

For me, I've always had mail fail. I used to go into gay bars, and lesbians would chat me up (I like men). So the only change is that people don't correct themselves anymore.

There's nothing pleasant about being followed through London at night, or masturbated at in public, or unsolicited sexual suggestions being made on holiday by strangers. There's nothing flattering about workmen in white vans shouting explicit things from the rolled down window.

Not going to lie that a whistle can be nice, if the man is. But it's usually not and anything more than that can be seriously disheartening when you're out and about trying to get on with something.