Pre-everything and planning to do everything. I hope I can train my body to look masculine enough without the top surgery but I don't know if I'm able do to it. We'll see.

No T, scheduling top surgery for may, having full hysto done conveniently for health reasons, not looking for bottom surgery.  I most likely went ever be able to go on T (even if I ever wanted to) because of health issues.  But I think this is going to be it for me.  I feel like getting rid of these things will allow me to feel comfortable in my body and finally accept it.  I guess I'll find out for sure after I get it all done and healed.


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Had top surgery in 2012, no plans for anything else atm

I'm a month on testosterone, with plans for top surgery in 2019/2020 and a total hysterectomy sometime in the next five years. I would like to have bottom surgery in the future as well.

Correction on what I wrote in this thread before: I probably won't get metoidioplasty, had a change of heart, recently. Main reason is I want to keep my vag, and then I have to opt out of UL and the scrotum would have to be separated and then I just started thinking... I don't really want this anymore. Well that's an over-simplification of my thoughts, but still. I still have dysphoria, but I have some hopes of maybe being able to manage that in other ways. It's worth a try, at least.

I still plan to get a hysto though, so I won't have to be on edge about accidental pregnancies (I don't ever want kids, but enjoy PIV sex with cis men) or more surprise periods happening (got one at 3 years on T, so a legit fear). I should be able to get hysto done later this year, maybe by fall or something. Haven't yet cancelled op for the meta I'm on waiting list for, cause I want to be extra sure of my decision before I do anything.

So eh, now I'm mostly just feeling a bit confused about myself. Like asking myself "why can't anything just be easy?" but at the same time I'm also like "I still feel positive about the future and that's what matters."

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 13, 2018, 05:08:39 AM
So eh, now I'm mostly just feeling a bit confused about myself. Like asking myself "why can't anything just be easy?" but at the same time I'm also like "I still feel positive about the future and that's what matters."

That is what matters the most  .
Having surgery is a huge decision - it's okay to have doubts and even change your mind. It's not like we can opt for a cis dick etc. at this point. Everyone must carefully contemplate the risks and pros and cons realistically. And if you should ever change your mind again, you can always opt for surgery anytime! No rush.  Even the techniques are improving constantly so for some people just waiting it out might be a good option.

And having to make desicions like that is never easy!!! We can only decide what's best for us in the current circumstances  . That might be different than in the future, and different as what we've thought before. That's okay. Sometimes wanting something in general (like surgery) shifts a bit once we are at a point of actually doing it. You might want something very bad in theory - but in practice that's just not that easy after all.

Keep your head high, man! Whatever you decide, it's valid. Always. Do what's best for you at this moment! 

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 17, 2018, 04:42:01 PM
That is what matters the most  .
Having surgery is a huge decision - it's okay to have doubts and even change your mind. It's not like we can opt for a cis dick etc. at this point. Everyone must carefully contemplate the risks and pros and cons realistically. And if you should ever change your mind again, you can always opt for surgery anytime! No rush.  Even the techniques are improving constantly so for some people just waiting it out might be a good option.

And having to make desicions like that is never easy!!! We can only decide what's best for us in the current circumstances  . That might be different than in the future, and different as what we've thought before. That's okay. Sometimes wanting something in general (like surgery) shifts a bit once we are at a point of actually doing it. You might want something very bad in theory - but in practice that's just not that easy after all.

Keep your head high, man! Whatever you decide, it's valid. Always. Do what's best for you at this moment!

Thank you for the reassuring words, it's warming
Yeah I've been throwing such a temper tantrum about making this decision since mid February... but since beginning of April I've been reasonably calm about it and consistently felt like I should opt out of genital surgery. I've been starting to connect better to my parts and feel kinda... attached to them? I don't know, it's weird. Like I suddenly get less and less dysphoric, which makes no sense to me.

That's my thought too, that I can always have surgery later on if I change my mind again, but then I probably shouldn't cause fact is I've been on and off about it ever since I started my transition 9 years ago... I likely won't ever make a definite decision on it, but who am I to really know. But either way, not doing it and then wanting it later on is way better than the possibility of having done it and regretting it.

Definitely not an easy decision to make, clearly one of the most difficult ones I've ever had to make. Yeah, my circumstances and my perspective changed unexpectedly over night, so that's why I started doubting and had to reconsider.

Thank you Although I feel strong enough to stand up for myself in situations when I need to, and like I'm on the right track in general with life and such!

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 20, 2018, 05:55:01 PM
Thank you for the reassuring words, it's warming
Yeah I've been throwing such a temper tantrum about making this decision since mid February... but since beginning of April I've been reasonably calm about it and consistently felt like I should opt out of genital surgery. I've been starting to connect better to my parts and feel kinda... attached to them? I don't know, it's weird. Like I suddenly get less and less dysphoric, which makes no sense to me.

That's my thought too, that I can always have surgery later on if I change my mind again, but then I probably shouldn't cause fact is I've been on and off about it ever since I started my transition 9 years ago... I likely won't ever make a definite decision on it, but who am I to really know. But either way, not doing it and then wanting it later on is way better than the possibility of having done it and regretting it.

Definitely not an easy decision to make, clearly one of the most difficult ones I've ever had to make. Yeah, my circumstances and my perspective changed unexpectedly over night, so that's why I started doubting and had to reconsider.

Thank you Although I feel strong enough to stand up for myself in situations when I need to, and like I'm on the right track in general with life and such!

Glad that made you feel better 

I really 100% feel for you since I'm not sure if I'd be able to make that decision myself. I mean - as transitioning is approaching, everything becomes so much more real. To be honest even going on T terrifies me on some level. I've been thinking that if it was possible to have a magic wand solution and turn myself 100% cis (like genital wise etc.) - I'm not sure if I'd want that! I mean, I'm not sure if I'd be able to make that decision. When it comes to actual genital surgery - that terrifies me even a ->-bleeped-<- lot more! Even if I theoretically wanted it, actually having it irl is a whole different story.....! I'm not even sure if I'd be able to take the risks involved.

That's just me  . I'm generally a coward (hard to admit) and terrified of everything.... so maybe I don't count. On the other hand I've learned though that there are things in life you'll never be 100% sure on...! (Such as going on T, transitioning etc. etc.)And it's okay too. The key is to do those things (that you know are good for you) nevertheless, despite the fear  . Like I might be afraid of the unknown when it comes to starting T & top surgery and everything. I'm even terrified of surgeries in general. But those are the type of things I just know I'll need to do...! But I'm still terrified. Yet determined to do them.

When it comes to surgeries in general, though, you really have to carefully contemplate the actual pros & cons realistically. The points you made with meta are valid points. And that's just reality. Especially with genital surgeries you can't always have everything. And you'll need to feel good about the outcome you will get. As for me, I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to make that decision. Even with T I'm just trying to take one step at a time - and thinking that just getting the diagnosis won't mean I'll have to start it - if I don't feel like it when I get there! I'm just terrified of making such a drastic change that will affect my whole life, after coping this long without doing it. Even if I know I want it.

So I get you 100%! And I want to say that you will know when or if you are ready for it  . This is a BIG decision to make - it might take years to decide, honestly. If you are somewhat okay with what you already have - that's great  ! And nothing to be ashamed of. Or that you're chickening out of something. Just listen to your gut.

In the meanwhile you might be interested in these:

http://uktrans.info/medical/48-other-medical-resources/189-a-guide-to-lower-surgery-for-trans-men
http://uktrans.info/attachments/article/189/lower-surgeryv2.pdf

https://myphalloplasty.wordpress.com/2016/10/28/pump-vs-rod-how-i-decided/
https://myphalloplasty.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/1-year-w-my-semi-rigid-erectile-device/

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 20, 2018, 06:35:49 PM
Glad that made you feel better 

I really 100% feel for you since I'm not sure if I'd be able to make that decision myself. I mean - as transitioning is approaching, everything becomes so much more real. To be honest even going on T terrifies me on some level. I've been thinking that if it was possible to have a magic wand solution and turn myself 100% cis (like genital wise etc.) - I'm not sure if I'd want that! I mean, I'm not sure if I'd be able to make that decision. When it comes to actual genital surgery - that terrifies me even a ->-bleeped-<- lot more! Even if I theoretically wanted it, actually having it irl is a whole different story.....! I'm not even sure if I'd be able to take the risks involved.

That's just me  . I'm generally a coward (hard to admit) and terrified of everything.... so maybe I don't count. On the other hand I've learned though that there are things in life you'll never be 100% sure on...! (Such as going on T, transitioning etc. etc.)And it's okay too. The key is to do those things (that you know are good for you) nevertheless, despite the fear  . Like I might be afraid of the unknown when it comes to starting T & top surgery and everything. I'm even terrified of surgeries in general. But those are the type of things I just know I'll need to do...! But I'm still terrified. Yet determined to do them.

When it comes to surgeries in general, though, you really have to carefully contemplate the actual pros & cons realistically. The points you made with meta are valid points. And that's just reality. Especially with genital surgeries you can't always have everything. And you'll need to feel good about the outcome you will get. As for me, I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to make that decision. Even with T I'm just trying to take one step at a time - and thinking that just getting the diagnosis won't mean I'll have to start it - if I don't feel like it when I get there! I'm just terrified of making such a drastic change that will affect my whole life, after coping this long without doing it. Even if I know I want it.

So I get you 100%! And I want to say that you will know when or if you are ready for it  . This is a BIG decision to make - it might take years to decide, honestly. If you are somewhat okay with what you already have - that's great  ! And nothing to be ashamed of. Or that you're chickening out of something. Just listen to your gut.

In the meanwhile you might be interested in these:

http://uktrans.info/medical/48-other-medical-resources/189-a-guide-to-lower-surgery-for-trans-men
http://uktrans.info/attachments/article/189/lower-surgeryv2.pdf

https://myphalloplasty.wordpress.com/2016/10/28/pump-vs-rod-how-i-decided/
https://myphalloplasty.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/1-year-w-my-semi-rigid-erectile-device/

Before, I think I definitely brushed my own fears about genital surgery aside a bit. Like swept them under the carpet and reasoned myself to think it was scary but doable. But yeah now it definitely terrifies me now that my true feelings have surfaced from under the carpet and mixed with my new feelings about it.

I understand you, if I had a magic wand that could turn me into a 100% cis guy, I'd hesitate as well. I think for me now... I've lived my entire life with the parts I have and whether I like it or not, I've become attached to them over the years. That's hard to let go of, even during times it's just been absolute hate towards those parts for me. I always use to reason that it was easier for me to get top surgery because I wasn't actually born with the tits. I did live the first 10 years of my life with a naturally flat chest.
So I never had that kind of attachment that part of my body. With T I can't quite make the same comparison, but with that I mostly think of it as that most T changes are additional and don't really remove anything that's already there. Except from losing original female voice range then. For me it's always been easier to welcome change that adds rather than change that subtracts. But like if I could have a cis dick... I'm not sure if I'd want that either at this point. Cause it's not just additional stuff then. Had I never known what it's like to have a pussy into adulthood with the life that I've had so far, the choice would have been easy for me. But as it is now, it complicates things.

Being scared is not cowardly though. It's what you do with the fear. Often, the bravest people are the most terrified. I'm also scared of a lot of things, some of them I can power through and do anyway, but some of them I avoid and run away from instead. I pick my battles.

I don't think you should stress anything transition related either. One step at a time is a very good approach, you can't do everything at once anyway! You too should listen to your gut, but then I know what it's like to not hear it properly cause of the noise in one's head. But it's been my experience that when the gut is very certain, you WILL hear it!

I'm still on that waiting list now, and I want to wait until I get a date booked to then cancel it. It might be silly but I want to have that date for the surgery that never happened as a clear mark in my past, when I look back at this time in the future. I don't know, I think it's just symbolic, or something. And easier to keep track of my past that way, when it's a little bit more structured. I think I might get that date booked either next month or the month after that. Either way though, I will most likely cancel it. Even if I'll change my mind on it again, cause I think that would just confirm it even more how very much not ready I am. To still flip-flop on it when I think I'm certain, I mean.

Well on a positive note, I won't have sit on my arse and just wait for things to heal properly for a couple years before I can start doing what I want with my life beyond transitioning. Like I can start next week instead! And obviously take a break for hysto healing then, but that's just a couple of months or so. That actually does feel a bit like a relief, but also a bit difficult cause I felt like I needed that surgery to kick me out of the door. Now I'm just gonna have to kick myself out of the door instead, which really is easier said than done...

Yeah I've definitely beaten myself up over it, but since it was much harder for me to decide to not have the surgery than it was to make the decision to have it... I think maybe at least for me personally it might just be braver to opt out then. At least I can pat myself on the shoulder with that thought, or something. My gut has been very clearly screaming "no" for theese past two months. It finally made it loud enough to catch my (undivided) attention.

Thank you for the links, I'll look into them

Just because a decision is hard to make doesn't mean it isn't the right one  !!!

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 22, 2018, 08:25:16 AM
I've lived my entire life with the parts I have and whether I like it or not, I've become attached to them over the years. That's hard to let go of, even during times it's just been absolute hate towards those parts for me.

I totally understand! Like I've probably stated here a million times already  - I developed this weird mental approach to mine: I reasoned that had I been born intersex (and would thus now have ambiguous genitalia) I would've grown to accept it as is. And still had sex etc. so...! What's down there is between me and my partner, no one else. So it isn't that big of an issue for me  . Plus I've learned that the clit equals the dick, so...! Basically we already have what cis guys have (in miniscule scale). I do not like to dwell on the fact I have 'female' parts. I just think they're my parts  . I'm lucky that I don't have a crippling genital dysphoria.

So just saying that I truly understand! Even if you'd rather have something else, you're still used to the way things are. I think that's just neutral/normal. It doesn't diminish your dysphoria.

Again comparing it to being intersex: If you ask an intersex person, 'would you rather have clear female/male genitalia?' what do you think they'd answer? Well I'm not intersex - but I can imagine feeling that had I been born with a micropenis for example, I'd toy with the idea of having been born with a regular sized dick. But doing a surgery or actual swap would still feel hard - though in theory that sounds awesome. If a person has something in their physical appearance they've grown to hate - once they are asked to get rid of it, many people suddenly become very defensive. Bcos that is what they've known all their life - and suddenly they realize they are attached to that thing more than they even knew! So it's perfectly natural to have mixed feelings about it. Not liking something is not necessarily the same thing as to actually wanting to change it. 

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 22, 2018, 08:25:16 AM
I always use to reason that it was easier for me to get top surgery because I wasn't actually born with the tits. I did live the first 10 years of my life with a naturally flat chest.
So I never had that kind of attachment that part of my body. With T I can't quite make the same comparison, but with that I mostly think of it as that most T changes are additional and don't really remove anything that's already there. Except from losing original female voice range then. For me it's always been easier to welcome change that adds rather than change that subtracts.

Very good reasoning I think  .

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 22, 2018, 08:25:16 AM
Had I never known what it's like to have a pussy into adulthood with the life that I've had so far, the choice would have been easy for me. But as it is now, it complicates things.

Agree. It comes down to the fact we are used to being certain way and functioning certain way... We don't have the experience of how a cis dick functions or what it feels like to have one. So it's the known vs. the unknown - feeling comfortable vs. drastic change. And having 100% working cis genitals vs. possible complications & not having a cis dick anyhow. Etc. It's not black & white.

I also don't have much genital dysphoria bcos I'm pretty certain I won't get any surgeries down there - so what options do I have then? Be miserable about it? Of what I don't have? Or celebrate (and use) what I do have? I don't wanna go that first mental route. I don't actively think how much I dislike/like it - it is what it is. And sex is important to me so I'll have to make use of what I do have. (Or not have sex - which is not an option for me  .)

So my thinking goes: If I'm not gonna change it, might as well be okay with it and come to terms with it.

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 22, 2018, 08:25:16 AM
I don't think you should stress anything transition related either. One step at a time is a very good approach, you can't do everything at once anyway! You too should listen to your gut, but then I know what it's like to not hear it properly cause of the noise in one's head. But it's been my experience that when the gut is very certain, you WILL hear it!

Thanks  !  A very good advice!!!

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 22, 2018, 08:25:16 AM
I'm still on that waiting list now, and I want to wait until I get a date booked to then cancel it. It might be silly but I want to have that date for the surgery that never happened as a clear mark in my past, when I look back at this time in the future. I don't know, I think it's just symbolic, or something. And easier to keep track of my past that way, when it's a little bit more structured. I think I might get that date booked either next month or the month after that. Either way though, I will most likely cancel it. Even if I'll change my mind on it again, cause I think that would just confirm it even more how very much not ready I am. To still flip-flop on it when I think I'm certain, I mean.

Don't think that's silly at all...!!! Very wise imo. Plus you get to examine your feelings the whole time. You'll get insight on what you really feel about it. When you get the date (and most probably know you'll cancel it) you'll know for certain you did the right thing (to cancel)  . You'll feel 'this is too much' 'this is way too soon!' or similar. You'll need that date to test your theory (and feelings) out. Perfectly understandable!

Plus even though you already kinda know you won't have the surgery, you're still not mentally ready to make that drastic decision of clearly opting out of it. You'll need some mental adjustment time - after all you've been after this for quite some time! So even if you know it's the right decision (to not go through with it), it's natural to feel disappointed.

I'm doing similar all the time! Like waiting for an appointment and testing my feelings out. Do I still wanna go with this? Knowing that I can quit anytime I need to - and also continue if I still feel like it  . For me the only hard part is to differentiate the fear of making a change/desicion from the actual gut feeling telling me no. Making any desicion and taking action can feel hard/difficult/scary/unpleasant. And still deep in your heart you know you're doing the right thing  .

And, again: Sometimes changes happen so fast you just need time to mentally adjust! And at some point your gut may scream: Enough! I need a break now!!!
And then you can come back to it at a later date  . Your gut is also warning against driving yourself overboard even if the direction is right.

When it comes to that surgery, remember that you can come back - ANYTIME during your life!!! Even after some 20 years! So that option is always open for you  . That can be a consoling thought. You aren't missing anything for not doing it immediately. And who knows - the techniques might drastically improve in the next 20 years or so  .

Do what's best for you now - and do what's best for you in 20 years when you hit that mark. Like the guy on that link decided to have that rod option though not wanting that initally (if I remember correct  ).

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 23, 2018, 02:58:58 PM
Just because a decision is hard to make doesn't mean it isn't the right one  !!!

I totally understand! Like I've probably stated here a million times already  - I developed this weird mental approach to mine: I reasoned that had I been born intersex (and would thus now have ambiguous genitalia) I would've grown to accept it as is. And still had sex etc. so...! What's down there is between me and my partner, no one else. So it isn't that big of an issue for me  . Plus I've learned that the clit equals the dick, so...! Basically we already have what cis guys have (in miniscule scale). I do not like to dwell on the fact I have 'female' parts. I just think they're my parts  . I'm lucky that I don't have a crippling genital dysphoria.

As far as I've noticed, the harder a decision has been for me to make, the more right it has been. Probably because then I really had to think it through first.

Yeah, it's like for better or worse, having those parts is what I'm used to. And the more used to them I get, and the more I learn to navigate them, it seems the more I like them. Well, considering just how many people I tend to be sexual with, or potentially will be sexual with that I have to disclose and explain to, and how many others I'm just randomly willing to inform when they ask, my intimate parts are more or less just as much public knowledge as any other aspect of my transitioned body, by now. But that's the hill I chose to die on (figuratively), so it's also my responsibility to handle the pressure of the whole world knowing and asking me about my genitals.

I don't mind being so open about that with just about anyone, but I also can't quite say it's just between me and my partner (when I'll have one again, I presume) when I'm being so public about it. I'm like the polar opposite/other extreme of what could be considered "prude" but of course it does get a little awkward at times for me too. I wish to be able to explain my relationship with my own body to those who wish to know, not cause of feeling pressured or anything, but cause I simply want to be understood and have that kind of conversation with others, and not just be clueless and confused about it.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 23, 2018, 02:58:58 PM
So just saying that I truly understand! Even if you'd rather have something else, you're still used to the way things are. I think that's just neutral/normal. It doesn't diminish your dysphoria.

I'm not sure what's going on with my dysphoria about those parts specifically, actually. It seems I feel less dysphoric by the day, without having done anything to alleviate it, and it's a bit confusing. I'm starting to like having such parts, and not just tolerate them. Before I used to totally hate them and think they were wrong and "too female" and despise what they could do. But now I'm either indifferent or really apprecitive of aspects about functions and looks.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 23, 2018, 02:58:58 PM
Again comparing it to being intersex: If you ask an intersex person, 'would you rather have clear female/male genitalia?' what do you think they'd answer? Well I'm not intersex - but I can imagine feeling that had I been born with a micropenis for example, I'd toy with the idea of having been born with a regular sized dick. But doing a surgery or actual swap would still feel hard - though in theory that sounds awesome. If a person has something in their physical appearance they've grown to hate - once they are asked to get rid of it, many people suddenly become very defensive. Bcos that is what they've known all their life - and suddenly they realize they are attached to that thing more than they even knew! So it's perfectly natural to have mixed feelings about it. Not liking something is not necessarily the same thing as to actually wanting to change it.

Well, I'm not intersex either so I can't know what they'd answer to that question. I think it would be a different answer depending on who you'd ask. I can imagine some would prefer to change their genitals while others wouldn't. Just like that some transsexual people would prefer change, while others wouldn't. I only get offensive when others ask me to get rid of something I like or have no issue with. If it's something I truly do hate or dislike about myself, I don't get defensive at all. Then I'm more likely to say I wish to but can't or have a calm discussion about it.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 23, 2018, 02:58:58 PM
Agree. It comes down to the fact we are used to being certain way and functioning certain way... We don't have the experience of how a cis dick functions or what it feels like to have one. So it's the known vs. the unknown - feeling comfortable vs. drastic change. And having 100% working cis genitals vs. possible complications & not having a cis dick anyhow. Etc. It's not black & white.

I also don't have much genital dysphoria bcos I'm pretty certain I won't get any surgeries down there - so what options do I have then? Be miserable about it? Of what I don't have? Or celebrate (and use) what I do have? I don't wanna go that first mental route. I don't actively think how much I dislike/like it - it is what it is. And sex is important to me so I'll have to make use of what I do have. (Or not have sex - which is not an option for me  .)

I think it's more so that I would miss my vagina terribly if it was gone one day, that I just don't feel the need to have a dick, even if it was the most gorgeous and sensate cis dick ever in just the right size and everything. Like it still wouldn't be worth it somehow. To know that, makes it difficult for me to understand my own feelings. If feels like I'm suddenly relating to my parts like a cis woman would to her own parts, and to me that's very strange, considering I see myself as a man, albeit transsexual. And because I used to have very bad dysphoria about the very same organ not that long ago. That feels like I just stepped into an alteranate reality, or something!

But yes, that is my thinking too, that if I'm not gonna change I might as well be okay with it instead. My goal is to be content with myself, then how I get to the point of being content doesn't really matter (within reason, ofc). Not having sex is not an option for me either, so I've also always thought it's best to use what I do have. Actually, having sex seems to reduce my dysphoria (for that duration, then). Probably because I get into a mode where I'm not really focused on the surface of my body but more so what's going on within it, both in my mind and physically. Pleasure is pleasure, no matter what kinds of parts people have. So during sex, I'm just a person enjoying myself and I don't really think about my gender or body parts. It's quite therapeutic almost xD

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 23, 2018, 03:16:00 PM
For me the only hard part is to differentiate the fear of making a change/desicion from the actual gut feeling telling me no. Making any desicion and taking action can feel hard/difficult/scary/unpleasant. And still deep in your heart you know you're doing the right thing  .

That I definitely have often felt too, which is why I tend to ignore my gut feeling cause I think it's just me being nervous or scared of the change. Such fears I tend to want to challenge and not be controlled by. But this time my gut feeling screaming "no" was so intense I felt it physically like it was trying to escpape my body, or something. I've never felt anything like that before! It really wanted my full undivided attention and made extra sure it got that.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 23, 2018, 03:16:00 PM
When it comes to that surgery, remember that you can come back - ANYTIME during your life!!! Even after some 20 years! So that option is always open for you  . That can be a consoling thought. You aren't missing anything for not doing it immediately. And who knows - the techniques might drastically improve in the next 20 years or so  .

Do what's best for you now - and do what's best for you in 20 years when you hit that mark. Like the guy on that link decided to have that rod option though not wanting that initally (if I remember correct  ).

The far distant future is always gonna be highly uncertain, so I don't think too much about what may or may not happen or what I might decide on that far ahead. It was only recently that I started thinking I might actually live beyond 30, and I'm 29 now... so, thinking 20 or more years ahead is still a little dizzying for me! But you're right that I really don't lose out on cancelling surgery now-ish, cause I could still have it many years later on

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 28, 2018, 06:49:44 PM
I think it's more so that I would miss my vagina terribly if it was gone one day, that I just don't feel the need to have a dick, even if it was the most gorgeous and sensate cis dick ever in just the right size and everything. Like it still wouldn't be worth it somehow. To know that, makes it difficult for me to understand my own feelings. If feels like I'm suddenly relating to my parts like a cis woman would to her own parts, and to me that's very strange, considering I see myself as a man, albeit transsexual. And because I used to have very bad dysphoria about the very same organ not that long ago. That feels like I just stepped into an alteranate reality, or something!

I don't think that's weird, really....! I think that's cool actually imo. I think... that's not a 'cis woman' way of thinking. Again that intersex comparison... Yes, you are a man. And that is your body, so it's a man's body regardless what's between your legs etc.  . It's totally cool and okay to feel that way about yourself! That also saves you from painful surgery,  . With the word 'vagina' I'm not sure if you're referring to the whole shebang [no pun intended] or just the technical term/part named vagina aka the 'hole'  - but either way that's totally okay & understandable!!! What you have between your legs does NOT define who or what you are. And remember many trans men never have that surgery (me including). So it's not even rare to think that! This ain't getting anywhere  but I just wanna express that... you are totally okay the way you are and all your feelings/thoughts are valid as is no matter how 'weird' you might find them...!

And don't be afraid of changing opinions. Everyone does that all the time with all sorts of things.

For example I've always found it hard to imagine myself with balls  ! Like I think about my pseudo 'dick' nearly daily in my mind... but in a way I'm just okay with the way I am. Everyone is just individual in this regard and some absolutely hate theirs and want a change - and others have sex just fine.

And if you had very bad dysphoria not long ago - and not anymore - well that's just great then, innit  ? Def an improvement! So nothing wrong with that at least!

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 28, 2018, 06:49:44 PM
But yes, that is my thinking too, that if I'm not gonna change I might as well be okay with it instead. My goal is to be content with myself, then how I get to the point of being content doesn't really matter (within reason, ofc). Not having sex is not an option for me either, so I've also always thought it's best to use what I do have. Actually, having sex seems to reduce my dysphoria (for that duration, then). Probably because I get into a mode where I'm not really focused on the surface of my body but more so what's going on within it, both in my mind and physically. Pleasure is pleasure, no matter what kinds of parts people have. So during sex, I'm just a person enjoying myself and I don't really think about my gender or body parts. It's quite therapeutic almost xD

Haha  ! Nothing beats sex! It feels validating when I know that if I close my eyes and just concentrate on the sensation, it's exactly the same as having a dick. (I mean the same sensation.) The appearance is different ofc... but if you don't look at it and just feel, it doesn't really matter what you have down there you know  .

Quote from: PurpleWolf on April 30, 2018, 05:37:42 PM
I don't think that's weird, really....! I think that's cool actually imo. I think... that's not a 'cis woman' way of thinking. Again that intersex comparison... Yes, you are a man. And that is your body, so it's a man's body regardless what's between your legs etc.  . It's totally cool and okay to feel that way about yourself! That also saves you from painful surgery,  . With the word 'vagina' I'm not sure if you're referring to the whole shebang [no pun intended] or just the technical term/part named vagina aka the 'hole'  - but either way that's totally okay & understandable!!! What you have between your legs does NOT define who or what you are. And remember many trans men never have that surgery (me including). So it's not even rare to think that! This ain't getting anywhere  but I just wanna express that... you are totally okay the way you are and all your feelings/thoughts are valid as is no matter how 'weird' you might find them...!

And don't be afraid of changing opinions. Everyone does that all the time with all sorts of things.

For example I've always found it hard to imagine myself with balls  ! Like I think about my pseudo 'dick' nearly daily in my mind... but in a way I'm just okay with the way I am. Everyone is just individual in this regard and some absolutely hate theirs and want a change - and others have sex just fine.

And if you had very bad dysphoria not long ago - and not anymore - well that's just great then, innit  ? Def an improvement! So nothing wrong with that at least!

Haha  ! Nothing beats sex! It feels validating when I know that if I close my eyes and just concentrate on the sensation, it's exactly the same as having a dick. (I mean the same sensation.) The appearance is different ofc... but if you don't look at it and just feel, it doesn't really matter what you have down there you know  .

Well, weird or not, it's confusing me! I don't know if it's really a "cis woman" way of thinking, I'm not one so I can only make a guess from how I've heard them speak of their genitals. I think I'm just trying to convey my abstract feelings into sentences. I know I'm a man, but it's weirding me out cause I always use to think I should at least want to have a dick. Like I never really thought that to be a man I have to have/get a dick, but whatever. I don't know what I think anymore... on gender, that is.
Your unintended pun made me laugh, though! She's getting banged sometimes, my vag I meant mainly the hole, but most the external stuff too. I found my g-spot again for the first time in ten years... as last time I felt that was in late 2008. Got the best orgasm in a decade since then, despite all my sleeping around and masturbating during those years. No way I'm giving that up! It was like literally finding a needle in a haystack. Too precious. I literally cried. That really felt like a soul-searching kind of sex.

I know it doesn't define who or what I am, but also at the same time, it does and has shaped me along the way. I think I didn't quite allow myself to enjoy that kind of sex before, partially because of dysphoria, but also because of my own gender-hangups, that it wasn't "manly enough" or whatever. I think I've been too hard on myself and now I'm confused cause I couldn't live up to my own standards. Then I had to realise it's not me that's wrong, but those standards of mine that were unreasonable. So I guess now I'm kinda desperately trying to find new standards?! I'm known to make things way more complicated than neccesary for myself. It's definitely a habit by now.

I know that most trans men don't get genital surgery, and I'm fine with that, but I think I'm more hung up on the reasons for opting out rather than the decision itself, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it is good that my dysphoria went from really bad to... where is it?! -basically over night. But it's like when you run really fast for a long time until you're super exhausted, and then just stop completely in the middle of a step. Like it's good to get a rest from the running, but the extreme change causes an impact that makes you nearly facepalm the road? It kind of feels a bit like that with my vag dysphoria, and I'm still struggling to not tip over from the impact. I don't know if that metaphor made any sense?

However I still have a lot of dysphoria about my wide hips/thighs, so I'm not like completely free of dysphoria, "just" more or less free of genital dysphoria specifically. I mean, that's still great though!

Yeah, I shouldn't fear changing opinions. I think it's just the sudden loss of control that comes with that, that scares me.

I've either been indifferent about the thought of having balls, or thought that would simply go nicely together with a dick. However, real balls seem to be quite inconvenient to have, at times! Like I don't even want to know how much it hurts to get one's balls kicked.

That's how I relate to it as well! Just closing my eyes and focusing on the sensation itself. That makes me kinda forget about my parts not being what I'd like for them to be, and also forget about really any general body issues I might have. And to know that my body pleases whoever I have sex with, is a huge confidence boost for me too.

Haha, this is turning into a long conversation about vags  !

Quote from: SeptagonScars on May 01, 2018, 06:54:49 PM
Well, weird or not, it's confusing me! I don't know if it's really a "cis woman" way of thinking, I'm not one so I can only make a guess from how I've heard them speak of their genitals. I think I'm just trying to convey my abstract feelings into sentences. I know I'm a man, but it's weirding me out cause I always use to think I should at least want to have a dick. Like I never really thought that to be a man I have to have/get a dick, but whatever. I don't know what I think anymore... on gender, that is.

I know it doesn't define who or what I am, but also at the same time, it does and has shaped me along the way. I think I didn't quite allow myself to enjoy that kind of sex before, partially because of dysphoria, but also because of my own gender-hangups, that it wasn't "manly enough" or whatever. I think I've been too hard on myself and now I'm confused cause I couldn't live up to my own standards. Then I had to realise it's not me that's wrong, but those standards of mine that were unreasonable. So I guess now I'm kinda desperately trying to find new standards?! I'm known to make things way more complicated than neccesary for myself. It's definitely a habit by now.

Yeah, it is good that my dysphoria went from really bad to... where is it?! -basically over night. But it's like when you run really fast for a long time until you're super exhausted, and then just stop completely in the middle of a step. Like it's good to get a rest from the running, but the extreme change causes an impact that makes you nearly facepalm the road? It kind of feels a bit like that with my vag dysphoria, and I'm still struggling to not tip over from the impact. I don't know if that metaphor made any sense?

That was a good metaphor and I do get where you're coming from. You know what I used to think that as well. Back in the day I felt disgusted by it (the hole) and felt any penetration was a womanly thing so just completely blocked that out of my mind. Like I didn't have one. The clit part has always been important to me coz I view it more like as my 'dick'. So never felt dysphoric about that (only it does feel annoyingly miniscule sometimes...). Anyway, later on I noticed that being penetrated feels just good, so...! And just pretty recently I let myself truly enjoy it. Also remind you, ofc cis guys can and do get penetrated as well, so...! Like who cares which hole it is! I felt that it's ridiculous (for me) not to use it, when I happen to have it. It's like missing out on sex without...! Its only purpose for me is the sex, so...! It just feels so damn good.

Anyway just saying that I deliberately shook off any dysphoria/bad feeling/guilt of enjoying or using it just pretty recently myself... And figured it doesn't make me any less of a man. I have it so might as well use and enjoy it! It would be a waste otherwise. I mean - being born trans is not great in general, so having a perk like that (extra hole, meant for sex) is a rare one. So I thought what the heck... and just went for it!

In the 'do you like your vag' thread no one seemed to share my thoughts though  ! Okay maybe a few guys did but the general consensus seemed to be absolute hate and no use whatsoever. For me personally I could never do a thing like patch it up! (I mean close it surgically.) That's not something I want at all.

Maybe my negative view on genital surgery (for myself) comes from thinking that... it's not really like you magically switch female parts to cis male parts... Like with a phallo it's more like having an extra lump of flesh attached to your body and the feel of your arm. I can't know how that feels in practice ofc but imagining it it's not the same as having a sensate cis penis. I mean the clit is the equivalent of that and no way can your arm have the same sensation as in your dick/clit! That is what's the most important thing for me. Getting my clit buried inside it just does not work for me. As for ball implants - I feel that balls in design are impractical in itself  ! So I'm kinda lucky that I don't have that...! (Like I know a guy who can't ride a bike bcos of the pain.) Balls seem inconvenient to me at most. When I've been considering phallo I never really gave a thought to having balls. Plus, having them would mean patching up the vag hole. And that ain't gonna happen so...!

So to me phallo as a procedure seems like more about the aesthetics than the actual functionality. No clit/dick to rub anymore (wtf!), no vag + inconvenient balls that have no purpose (just for the aesthetics, you can't reproduce) and a nice looking penis that does not work like a cis penis does. That's harsh but those are my feelings about it..... It'd be so cool to have a dick though and being able to penetrate ofc. That I'm really missing. But all in all that just does not seem worth it...!

And then there's meta I might consider... It was news to me you can have urethra lengthening with that too! But just the idea of someone shuffling a knife near my dick gives me a heart attack  ! So for now I'm just waiting for the changes on T... and hoping for a miracle and a lot of girth plus length or something  !

Hey, just last fall I was freaking out (for not having transitioned already long time ago) and wasn't even sure if I'd like to be on T! And what I'd feel about the growth and stuff. That's why I signed up here in the first place, to ask about the T effects.

So I totally get any change of heart or confusion or needing to really think things through.

I seriously considered having a phallo done at 16. Then I didn't transition at all - and tried to come to terms with it and cope without T. Well that didn't work out and here I am again... I still wasn't sure if I should get on T - and now I'm pretty sure I need it. I'm waiting for the dick growth but there's a chance I might consider surgery some day after all. But probably not  . But there's always the possibility...! So I'll just leave it open and concentrate on the present instead. I might either get more dysphoric about it once I'm on T and have had top surgery. Or then I might just feel more okay with it when all the other aspects are taken care of. There's no knowing, really. I seriously doubt I'd ever get phallo though. And even that meta freaks me out tbh! (Even top surgery does so...!) Or then I'll just opt out of it at the last minute like you did,  !

Just saying... just bcos you've felt some way at one time doesn't mean your thoughts about it can't change as you gain more knowledge or just have a change of heart. Thoughts and feelings aren't rigid and everyone updates their views on many things all the time. I certainly do! This is no different  .

Quote from: SeptagonScars on May 01, 2018, 06:54:49 PM
Your unintended pun made me laugh, though! She's getting banged sometimes, my vag I meant mainly the hole, but most the external stuff too. I found my g-spot again for the first time in ten years... as last time I felt that was in late 2008. Got the best orgasm in a decade since then, despite all my sleeping around and masturbating during those years. No way I'm giving that up! It was like literally finding a needle in a haystack. Too precious. I literally cried. That really felt like a soul-searching kind of sex.

Well that sounds too cool,  !

Pre-transition.   Post therapy for top surgery letter.