First, I want to apologize as I know this in the wrong forum,(sorry Nichole, and other Mods) I posted it somewhere else on here, but have gotten no responses, and I'm guessing I need to do this before next weekend as both my immediate bosses will be on vacation.  I am looking for any and all info I can gather about transitioning at work so I can print it and give my upper management the paperwork. I tried looking in the wiki section but got nowhere. I have recently changed my name at work and most people call me by it but the sad thing is, these are the people I work with the LEAST, the people I work with the most don't try hard enough and told me so which completely disrespects me as a person and our policy of respecting the individual ffor who they are. If you have links to anything please post in this thread or send me a PM. I am desperate at the moment. I still have not told my wife I plan on doing this..yet but I need all the info I can get before I discuss it with her. Especially since I love my job so much, and I just got a pay raise, I really, really don't want to lose it.


Thanks in advance,
Mickie

ok, for everyone to help me a little better, since i live in ohio they will never change my gender on the BC of course(a-holes), the name I have chosen will be legal when I get the money and info on how to do it of course. nobody knows, except usually customers that I prefer to be referred to as female, the only thing male i wear is a shirt, everything else screams FEMALE. yet everyone thinks i still prefer to be referred to and treated as male, (a guy and girl argues about it for five minutes this past sunday-finally told her when he left that i preferred her and SHE KNEW!) anyway back on topic. here's the real situation. this other guy and i have the same name, i NEVER wanted to go by my birth name in the first place, I abhor this anal retentent name. problem being even though he is a gentleman most of the time, he oversteps his bounds on things he says to customers and other employees, customers have complained about him, and since he's like 4 times my age, they don't realize it could possibly be him being rude and such. i have since started wearing my bangs noticeably, pulling my hair back in different styles, wearing hair clips and such that also scream FEMALE(tell me how many MEN wear BUTTERFLY hair clips to work?). the other part of my problem is three of the so-called "men" i work with refuse to respect me and call me by Mickie, I've gotten to the point where I just ignore them when they refer to me as M*******. they put it off like it's no big deal, and start calling me other names like Michelle and BS like that. Plus, they admit to my face that they don't try that hard and i find that overly offensive as well. I don't like Michelle either. then on top of that they are training the new guy to be just the same way(btw:he's one of the three i'm referring to). My immediate female boss lost it(burst out laughing) the other day when a customer properly referred to me as she. i found this rude and offensive(but i can't really blame her as she does not yet know). Upper management still believes I identify as M****** and male, some have had convincing that I am Mickie and not M*******. oh and then there's the one guy always, why don't you cut your hair, just do it once. well dammit if i wanted to cut my hair i would. F** off, J****. i spent 15 years of my life getting bad hair cuts from a lady who likes to tell everyone she is my mother, and why the hell would i want to go get my hair cut every damned two or three weeks so i can look like every other man on the face I don't identify with and told OH YOU LOOK NICE!! i'm tired of looking nice, it's all i heard growing up. I just want to be me and have everybody at work just back off, and i'm trying to be as polite about it as possible, but at the rate it's going i'm going to have stand up and be a ril big BITCH about it. I didn't mean for this to sound like a rant, but it's the sitaution I'm dealing with.

oh, and you asked how is it going to be different when my bosses return from vacation, well i don't really know as these two immediate bosses recognize my new name, and my shop manager yelled at both of our boss cuz he was still referring to me as M********* and ever since, he now refers to me as Mickie. if i thought any of my managers would understand me it would be him since he's openly gay. but yeah this weekend should be interesting because usually when management isn't there the others turn to me for direction on what to do in certain situations, even though i don't have management authority but for three months when my support manager or department manager were gone if i couldn't get ahold of upper management, i had no choice but to make the call, so far i have only made a few minor mistakes, but that is how we learn. i hope this helps, Renate. thanks for the stuff i will check it out.

Edit: anything that i can download or print would be most helpful, because i don't want to sink a lot of money into this if i end up losing my job because somebody has issues with me.

Thanks
Mickie

Mickie,

Transitioning at work is no small feat, it takes time and is full of unsavory moments like the ones you describe. Be firm, but don't let them see it bothers you. Just go with the flow. How long have you been part timing?

thank you Heather, I intend to take this process as slow as I can, at the moment I am trying to gather info so i can do it right-the first time. I know it takes time, but it's the offensive name calling and lack of respect that I REALLY want to stop. It's not like I chose some foreign hard to pronounce name that I have to beat into them. my main point at the moment is the lack of respect and their blatant showing of it. they are all a few years younger than i am so i kinda cut them a little slack for maturity. and the info, no i'm not in therapy at present, i'm still looking for a therapist that deals with gender issues around my area, i can't really afford driving 140 miles to see a therapist and so far that's the closest one i have found that actually lists that they do deal with GID. plus I have to find a babysitter for my son and thats really not all that easy as almost everyone in my family works, or i have ones I just won't ever leave my children with. I know without a doubt i need therapy to help deal with these issues, just like everyone that's why i am here for starters. i don't just plan on walking in to my boss's office and just blindsighting them with all this info, i know better than that, i think my head is on better than most. surprisingly enough i have never thought about suicide as a real option. i always figured i would find a way to make things work...and i usually do. and i sincerely appreciate all help and advice everyone on here is willing to give me.


My eyes and ears are open...........
Mickie

Check our wiki, https://www.susans.org/wiki/A_Guide_to_Coming_Out_at_the_Workplace

I used the info, modified somewhat to fit my personal circumstances, found there to successfully come out at work last May.

Good luck!!

hugs & smiles
Emelye

thanks Emelye...it's pretty much where i wanted to start.



Mickie

IMHO, tell the wife first (she deserves to know first and foremost!), THEN tell management, THEN let management work with you to decide on the best route to inform the employees. You want ALLIES here, you want people to be involved in helping you. By transitioning first, without telling your wife, without telling management... well, sometimes it works, I've seen people here do it that way and have it work out. But I don't think it's the best way to build a support network.

The name... no one takes you seriously because they have no clue what's really going on. There's no coordination with management, no formal notification that this is who you are now. Put yourself in their shoes... you just start showing up more and more enfemme and demanding to be called Mickie, but they have no clue as to WHY. They feel foolish calling you Mickie, they don't know what's going on with you. Is it a passing whim? Are you just crossdressing for fun at work? They don't know, and can't take you seriously.

And your wife is likely to be seriously (and justifiably) angry that you're risking your job (and both of your financial livelihoods) without discussing any of this with her first.

I'm sorry for sounding so harsh, but if you want to stack the odds in your favour, ya have to respect the rights and concerns of those around you... if you want them to return the favour.

As for materials, I seriously overburdened my employers with WAY too much educational information. In the end, all they really cared about was the Carry Letter from my therapist (explaining I was diagnosed with GID, was transitioning all the way, and under proper medical care) and a short letter explaining my timeline. Then together, we created a plan to tell the employees... and when. They wanted time to prepare policies, prepare for any bathroom issues, etc., and I adjusted my schedule to fit their concerns. Once they felt they'd prepared for any contingencies, they allowed me to tell my coworkers. We all worked together. I made sure they knew I understood their workplace concerns, and they made sure I understood they were just doing everything possible to make things go smoothly for the office AND me.

And everything worked our great.

~Kate~

Hi mickie.  Lots of what Kate and others have had to say is very good advice.  We all do this in a variety of ways.  I would have been better off if I had followed the plan Kate used, but I had transitioned most of the way, and was hiding at work as Mike.  I couldn't stand it anymore, and Marcy and I both agreed that it was time, and that I should not wait any longer.  Only one of my friends at work knew about me, and begged me to go slowly, start 'femming out' slowly.
That's not my style, and as I said, I had already been through most of my transition.  By then, everyone was gossiping and speculating about me.  So, I went into this thinking that it would be no big surprise to anyone.  I cannot say strongly enough, that no one knew, and I was a complete surprise to everyone. 

I went to my HR manager the next day, and told her about me.  She was super fine about it, and wanted to know how I wanted to handle it.  She said she was willing to do anything for me from make a plan, to "here's your new name tag, Bev".

I chose the "here's your new name tag Bev" route, and went out that moment on the sales floor as Bev, in slacks, blouse, flats, earrings, necklace, light makeup and lipstick.  I figured it wouldn't be so very different, as they already knew I was wearing foundation and powder.  I could not have been more wrong.  Bev was thrust upon 15 or so other salespeople as something they would just have to  deal with.

This is the "learn to fly on the way down" method, and I don't recommend it to anyone.  I went from having 15 or so friends and a best friend, to being pretty much left alone.  A few other newer people developed a friendship with me, over time, and many other people in the company who I didn't work with came by, and gave me their support. 
I put myself in the position of being suddenly Beverly, no turning back.  I had to do my voice training on the job, on my way to the job, on my way home from the job.  I lived, ate, drank, and slept Kathy Perez voice feminization CD's, and it was tough.

I guess what got me through all this is a tough psychic hide, a sure sense of 'true self', and more than anything else, a loving wife-now-partner who supported me in every way she knew how.

All this started in March of 2007, and life for us now is really pretty wonderful, but it was the most difficult thing either of us had ever had to do.  With love, and the grace of God, we came out the other side of this intact, still making a living the hard way, and happy in a complete loving relationship.  We beat incredible odds. 

In the final analysis Mickie, you'll end up doing this your own way, and I wish you all the very, very  best




Bev

Like kate, Bev and others have said you'll need to work with the HR folks.  I found a few books on amazon on transexual workplace issues.  I purchased them and gave them to HR.  To be sucessful you'll need to work with the company on just about everything.  Play fair and a fair amount of the time people will play fair with you.

I came out a year ago at work.  At first there will always be some who don't understand and get the gender all wrong all the time.  Give it time, don't don't don't scream or yell,  But try to ignore comments unless it's private.  After a year at work, everyone and I mean everyone treats me as a woman.  Even the guy who said his pastor could remove the demon from me.   

Good Luck

Beni

PS,  Coming out at work is a pretty scary thing, not just for you but for everyone you work with.  Play nice and you might get lucky

thank you all for your advice, yeah i am trying to take this slow. i pretty much have told my wife that i want to do this, i just don't think she's ready. i keep telling her i will always be her husband, and then she makes comments like, yeah as a woman, why do you want to be a woman so bad, why do you want to do this at work. last xmas, she asked and begged to give me bangs, i didn't want them then as i didn't know how i was going to hide them. she showed me how to hide them and how to curl them. she confuses me more than this gid does sometimes. i know i haven't posted any pics on here or anything as i am still self-conscious and private. it hurts me that she wants to hide the real me from everyone. her sister somewhat knows( i haven't lost her at least not yet). i work primarily on the weekends so it's not like i would cause a big commotion at work. unlike some of you ladies on here i actually have some things working in my favor: i.e.: we have our own bathroom, and i have been working on my voice to sound more feminine, it only stinks when i have a sore throat, then of course there's my hair(being blonde and having long hair people easily see you as female) i don't have a lot of facial hair, which means i have no 5 oclock shadow. i don't usually wear any makeup, other than blush maybe lip gloss depending on how windy it is. sunday is usually the best day for me, unless somebody comes in that just wants to irk me and call me sir(grrr), most of the customers see me as female, i posted in another thread a couple wanted to argue with each other on which sex i was after he left, i got the chance to finally tell her she was correct in addressing me as female, and when she came in the next time, she properly addressed me, in front of him and that time there was no arguing. i actually went to see a lawyer today and went in with my kids, i told her who we were and she asked if my husband was coming!! i thought of two replies, yep she'll be here any minute, but went with no, my wife will be here soon, and that confused her even more, of course it didn't thrill Britt(my wife) any. the other thing i think bothers her is that fact she thinks i'm stealing her role as wife, that's just not something i can do. i really don't see why wife means you have to have a vagina and husband means you have to have a penis. that really irks me. i think she is also still worried about my sexuality and i've reassured her on many occasions that i only like women, i always have, i don't find men attractive at all and probably never will, it's just the way i feel. i know it will take time for her to lose her husband that i tell her she's not losing. i mean i think she has a great deal, a husband and wife in the same package, but what do i know right? i can't tell what sex i am. (at least to her). i know i am female, i really wish i could answer some of the questions, she's been asking me that i know a lot of you other ladies have been asked. it all just makes me want to cry cause in the end i think i'm going to lose her, though she said she wouldn't leave, and at the moment she's preggers again so i know she's extra moody and i'm trying to deal with that too. she miscarried the last one, so i wanted to make sure she was far enough long before i went into therapy so i could get on hormones, cuz i know some of the side effects that they cause and she doesn't like that either, but i know it varies from person to person. sorry this is so long, but i had to get it off my chest to you cuz i know, i will get good advice here at least from the ones who post regularly.


thanks all
Mickie

I am going to be recently going through with this. Considering my workplace I only really have abotu 3 friends out of our department of 30. My boss knows and she has talked it through with me. I will be changing my name at work (and legally) this thursday (bank holiday Friday) and I will be sending and email round to everyone explaning that I have changed my name. My boss agrees with this. However when I start T in about 2 months and I start to change I will not tell anyone nobody needs to know only the ones close to me. Of course there is going to be wispering and horrible words said. But I have delt with that all of my life so nothing new there!

Mickie,

Plan out your private coming out (to your SO, to your loved ones) before coming out to the wider world, such as work. You don't want to leave them behind on this.
If you want my honest opinion, I think you're going too fast. Like boobs, consensus and acceptance take time to grow and it's a long way to walk. Forget about the workplace for some time and focus on the people who will probably be there with you when the outside world decides to shun you in some way. You can't be considering coming out at work if you aren't at least part-timing (i.e. out everywhere else) and at least some of the people in your immediate circle know. Especially your SO, most especially if she's invested in having a child with you. Be square to her; she'll know anyway. You won't be her husband anymore, but let her know she won't lose *you* regardless of title.
I know once you *know* what you have to do to be happy it's very hard to wait (I've been there myself), but you'll crash and burn if you don't slow down and take everything you hold dear down with your transition, girl . Sorry to sound gloomy or harsh but it's the truth.
You can do it, but transition is just... not easy.

for my loved ones, basically my dad already knows9 all he wants is for his children to be happy and not in jail since he was a corrections officer). my estranged sister lives far away so it wouldn't be face to face and she always only gets half the story from everybody else. i'll refuse to tell her(that woman who calls herself a mother) till the day i die, she says she loves me so then why treat me the way you did when i was younger? plus, she's deaf and blind guess it makes no real difference if i tell her or not does it...lol? my sister(in Law) knows but i don't really know to waht extent and today is her b-day so i really don't want to burden her with that today and she's planning her wedding, and i really don't want to think that by doing this i'm trying to mess up her wedding or anything. i'm not in it, but i don't want her to think that i'm trying to sabotage it or anything. her dad has always suspected that i wasn't a normal guy, but i was angry all the time, now not so much. i also believe her grandma has embraced the fact that i actually do enjoy doing the traditional feminine things, like staying home with the kids, cleaning house, taking them to the doctor, etc. etc. tbh, i've told my immediate boss that most of the customers refer to me as female and i prefer it that way, it keeps me out of so much trouble. i don't like being blamed for things i don't do. i know i'm not perfect, but i really don't think when i'm at work i come off as rude or cocky. i take serious offense to that.

and Soldierjane, my wife has known about my GID since before we got married so it's no secret to her.

Thanks all....
Mickie

I think you're moving too slowly.  You're already out to the important people in your life, including your supervisors.  What you really need to do is formalise your transition to your co-workers and everyone else.  You already present female at work except for your shirt ().  Do you still use the men's room?  If you do you're creating confusion in the minds of those around you as to what the hell is going on with you.

What I did was come out to my immediate supervisor and told her I wanted to transition to female.  She arrainged a meeting with the Program Director and several other managerial types.  At the meeting we discussed the best way to announce it to the rest of the staff.  I also made my choice of restrooms (women's) and it was made clear that I could not use the men's room anymore.  The director stressed that she wanted me to be consistent in my gender presentation.  I was not to go back and forth between the genders.  It took a few weeks to get all the people together but I finally made an announcement at a staff meeting about my transition, my name and my restroom use.  My co-workers congratulated me on my decision and courage in making the announcement to a room full of people.  There was one person out of 50 who was somewhat hostile to me and she had no authority over me.

If you're interested you can see the journal of my work transition at My blog.

Transgender at Work offers some thoughts and links for transition at work.

Quote from: mickie on March 20, 2008, 09:51:41 AM

and Soldierjane, my wife has known about my GID since before we got married so it's no secret to her.

Thanks all....
Mickie

I read that after posting, yeah, and then had no time to post again. Well, then what's left is to show her she won't lose you as a person if you transition. Sometimes people need a nudge. Just be ready for the hard times; it doesn't mean you won't make it out the other end with her by your side though. People have managed it and come out stronger.
I still think it's better if you get used to be out everywhere else but work before going full-on at work since your livelihood is so important not only for your family but for your transition as well (it's expensive). I'm from the slow-but-steady school but you know better than anyone what is right for your particular circumstances Best of luck though.

Quote from: Claire de Lune on March 20, 2008, 10:44:00 AM
...... You're already out to the important people in your life, including your supervisors.  What you really need to do is formalise your transition to your co-workers and everyone else.  You already present female at work except for your shirt ().  Do you still use the men's room?  If you do you're creating confusion in the minds of those around you

Yeppers.....I have to agree with Claire de Lune.  You have more than just a toe in the water to check the temperature, more like most of the way in?
Yeah, you are going to confuse people if they don't know just where you are.  I think if you have your partner's support, you should go for it.  Nothing is better for mainstreaming as female than enforced daily 'practice'.  You can't practice in private, then come out to everyone as a socialized woman.  That will only happen as you learn to socialize as one of the girls. 
Think about it.  Make sure that a lifetime of socializing with women, and being accepted as a woman, and being treated by men, like it or not, as a woman is what you really want.  At some point, there's no turning back.

I came home from work today, kicked off my heels, had a salad for dinner, and spent time with my sweetie.  It never occurred to me once today if anyone thought I was or was not a woman.  I just am.  Most of my conversations were lengthy ones with women I'd never met before, and we all enjoyed our conversations and special connection.  Most of them thought my children I spoke of, were mine, as in carried by me.  I did not tell them that, they assumed it..........................

This part of my life did not happen overnight.  It took almost a grueling year of full time, complete with tears, anxiety, learning female behaviors, being 'read' too many times, driving my wife crazy with me me me, worrying way too much over how I look in the mirror, sacrificing friendships, training a baritone voice to resonate in a higher, more female range........too many things to list.
As I said, make sure you want this.....



Bev,
no turning back 

thank you all for your kind words and advice. tbh, my boss spoke with me yesterday. he told me he was getting phone calls as people were getting confused as to what to call me and he asked me which i prefer to be called since the way i present(female). and i wear a men's shirt because it's hard to find a woman's navy blue shirt with pockets in it for the stuff i carry for my job. and yes everything else is female. He said he was fine with it but wanted to make sure of what i wanted to be referred to as. He also said that a couple of the guys in the shop had been uncomfortable with me. he asked if i had sought counseling, and i told him i was looking but couldn't really find anybody around here that had previously dealt with this type of issue. he asked if i felt this way pretty much my whole life and told him i had. my boss then said there was a number that i could call that was part of my benefits package for counseling and told me where to find it, i got busy so i didn't get a chance to really look for it and i guess he kinda knew i was going to get busy so he brought me back a card with the number on it. so i will call and talk to whoever i need to and hopefully get this show further on the road. he had also asked if i planned on having surgery in the future, i told him i was still unsure at this point.

no i do NOT use the men's room. i use our shop bathroom if one of the guys aren't in it or i use the family restroom. i do my best to AVOID using the men's room. as of right now i don't really know much about what is going on at work other than the fact my boss is ok with this and is quite sure that i'm not the only one who's done this, which makes me feel a whole lot better. and yeah, i'm just a little bit more patient now becuase the guys in the shop will have to get use to calling me she, her, etc, on top of my new name, but i understood the gender pronouns before the name thing. i know that will take quite a bit of time.

actually bev, i seem to relate a lil better with the women a long time ago, one girl liked my hair when i had worn my wife's name tag to work because we had to share a vest and it almost got me in trouble. then when i started just pulling my hair back in a ponytail, the women i work with started talking to me a lil more. i had one woman come in the one day and she was pretty much in tears cause daddy didn't believe she needed tires, she was driving from minnesota and daddy was in michigan, she had wires sticking out of the one and a belt busted in the other one, and i so related to her it wasn't even funny, different parent but i understood her pain and i made sure we got her taken care of. the tires she had on the front end of that car could've killed her and anybody else in that vehicle if they had blown at a high speed. it hurt me that daddy wasn't taking care of his lil girl.

and yeah i told my boss that i was treated a lot different when customers referred to me as female, and it was a lot nicer(surprisingly) than when they addressed me as male.

the nice thing about this counseling is that they do it over the phone, so i don't have to drive anywhere, which saves a ton of money on gas and babysitters as my son won't even stay with his aunt and she is a wonderful lady(she's my wife's blood sister-go figure...lol) and i'm going to go talk to her a little more tomorrow since she's off and explain it to her alittle more.


i will keep yu all posted on how this goes, my family has been sick including so it really doesn't help with all of this. your words of support are appreciated greatly.

with a somewhat unburdened heart,
Mickie

Well, Mickie, it sounds like things are going about as well as they can for anyone.  Wonderful, having a supportive company to work for.  My wife and I went through all my clothes, and got rid of every stitch of male clothing.  No compromises, no male clothing of any kind.  Even a little thing will get noticed by some people.  For me, it was not what other people would think, but how I feel about it.  No compromises for me.  I admit, it can be a nuisance, not having pockets, or having pockets big enough for a lipstick alone, but when I look around, the other women have the same lack of pockets, etc., and clip their pen to their name tag lanyard, etc.  Also, you'll just get used to not having 'stuff' in pockets. 

There will always be questions about surgery, and the best understood response is yes, I will in the future.  Nothing says more about who you are to people you have to deal with every day, than yes, I've had surgery, or yes, I'm planning on surgery.   Of course, you always have the choice down the line of saying you changed your mind.

Your boss sounds very supportive, and wants to be able to give employees non-conflicting answers, and directions.  My opinion, mind you, but if there is a women's only restroom, I would use that one exclusively.  No, I wouldn't compromise (I was also supported by management) on the ladies room issue.  Using any other facility would only invite notions that you are indeed, different, and not really female.  A really tough issue to grapple under certain conditions, but you should wrestle this 400 pound gorilla to the ground.  In my workplace, it was a huge issues with some, down to a non-issue with others.  Now, about a year later, hardly anyone remembers, and no one cares, or if they do, nothing is said, no 'looks'.....nothing.

I'm glad you're hooked up with a therapist.  That will help you a great deal, if you get someone who understands us.

So.....Happy Days!



Bev