I have no idea what is going on, but I have been misgendered more in the last three weeks than I have in the five years since I began my transition combined. I got called out in restrooms three times and had to show my ID to a security guard one of those times. I don't know if I'm looking more masculine or what. Admittedly I haven't worn makeup in months, but I haven't changed my hair or the way I dress.

I'm so depressed right now. I haven't felt this bad since I was jumped in a parking lot very early on in my transition.

Quote from: allisonsteph on September 08, 2018, 06:13:58 AM
Admittedly I haven't worn makeup in months...

This is likely your answer. The additional gender cue of makeup is what people need to be able to consistently see you as a woman.

The more androgynous a person is the bigger role these cues play. I occasionally get misgenderd as a woman because of my long hair. If I am clean shaven, I can literally walk into the mens room in a mens tee shirt and regular blue jeans, and if my female alter takes over, combs her hair differently, adjusts this and that, and holds my wallet and keys instead of having them in my pockets, people have no problems seeing her as a woman when I walk out. That isn't going to happen when I have a week old VanDyke.

I'm sorry to hear that AllisonStef. I can't speak to why, but with everything on the internet and in the news, people are getting better at identifying sex markers. It could be that they are just guessing based on a lack of make-up like Virginia said... or they're just picking up on other cues... you look great though. So I have no clue what may have been zeroing in on.

I here you Allison. It sucks indeed. I can be in full dress and get sired if I don't use makeup. But most of the time, If I do put on makeup, they don't use any pronouns. I did get a "you first lovely lady" from a guy at the courthouse yesterday but I think he was on one of those happy drugs  .

Hang in there Allison!
Donica.

The honest answer is you have too many masculine cues in your face and you said you're not wearing any makeup. If your goal is to pass more often you may want to consider FFS to soften the male cues. I just had hair transplant surgery to create a new feminine hair line that helped me pass already with just the shadow of hair framing the face better. I know this is shallow but you can't expect others to gender you correctly just because of the way you feel on the inside they need clues and cues. You have potential and could get there if that's your goal. If passing is not your goal confidence is a big part of it as well. I'm sorry people are mistreating you. You just gotta make the best of it and do everything you can to blend in and it lessens the societal judgements.


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Most women's faces actually look like the societal version of a man's face if they don't wear makeup, actually, I've noticed. For that reason, I've known a few MTFs who always wore makeup, just in case something folds between the lines. You have nothing to worry about, from what I can see in your profile picture.

Quote from: jesse135 on September 08, 2018, 11:51:40 AM
Most women's faces actually look like the societal version of a man's face if they don't wear makeup, actually, I've noticed. For that reason, I've known a few MTFs who always wore makeup, just in case something folds between the lines. You have nothing to worry about, from what I can see in your profile picture.

Actually you're wrong there are many gender cues on the face that help people identify someone as male or female. You don't have to be perfect that's not what I'm saying you just need to be 51% female in terms of cues and you'll pass.


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Yup, you go in 50-50. All you need to do is tip the scales.

A cautionary note; Western culture actually has a strong bias towards perceiving another person as being male.  The culture as a whole does not perceive misgendering a female as male to be harmful, as there is an assumption that being perceived as the dominant gender is beneficial.

This is tied to a bunch of sexist constructs in the culture, from the public perception that all trans persons are transwomen, to the acceptance of transmen but not transwomen in womyn-only spaces.

(I admit I am a bit of a challenge for this culture.  How powerful can the penis really be if a sane and smart person like me decides she can do without it?)

I just wanted to add, why would anyone misgender me if I was standing right in front of them wearing a dress. Unless they are being sarcastic, maybe they don't notice the dress and only look at my face. Which would mean I have to do all I can do to tip the scales in my favor. Otherwise, they are being sarcastic. Anyway, I just pay the cashier, say thank you and move on. Having to show your ID to a security guard just to use the restroom would be a very bad emotional setback for me. Do they really expect me to walk into the men's restroom wearing a dress? I think from now on, I will make sure to tinkle before leaving the house.

Quote from: Donica on September 08, 2018, 02:35:18 PM
I just wanted to add, why would anyone misgender me if I was standing right in front of them wearing a dress.

Do they really expect me to walk into the men's restroom wearing a dress?

I think from now on, I will make sure to tinkle before leaving the house.

Why would they misgender you wearing a dress? Not a huge number, but guys wear dresses and skirts. Just two weeks ago at DCA airport, I saw a young, well-built young man wearing a very attractive kilt. (Well, I call it a kilt since it was a skirt in a tartan.)

Do they expect you to use the men's restroom? Ummm. Absolutely, depending on the state. Some are much worse than others. This is just one of the few benefits to being in California: Pretty much complete legal protection for using the bathroom of your choice.

Tinkle before leaving home? Well THAT has always been a very good idea. Having the law on your side is of little benefit if some jerk decides you shouldn't have been in the women's room...

Kate

Have you considered adding a little something up top?   Big boobs really help in getting read as female.  Expensive breast augmentation is not necessary.  Bird seed and balloons  (an old cross dressing trick) can be a girl's friend.   Also, a well-padded bra can work wonders in the shaping and lifting department.  Also, a tight t-shirt doesn't hurt.

Quote from: Janes Groove on September 08, 2018, 04:52:40 PM
Have you considered adding a little something up top?   Big boobs really help in getting read as female.  Expensive breast augmentation is not necessary.  Bird seed and balloons  (an old cross dressing trick) can be a girl's friend.   Also, a well-padded bra can work wonders in the shaping and lifting department.  Also, a tight t-shirt doesn't hurt.

I'm a 38C

Quote from: KatieP on September 08, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
Why would they misgender you wearing a dress? Not a huge number, but guys wear dresses and skirts. Just two weeks ago at DCA airport, I saw a young, well-built young man wearing a very attractive kilt. (Well, I call it a kilt since it was a skirt in a tartan.)

Do they expect you to use the men's restroom? Ummm. Absolutely, depending on the state. Some are much worse than others. This is just one of the few benefits to being in California: Pretty much complete legal protection for using the bathroom of your choice.

Tinkle before leaving home? Well THAT has always been a very good idea. Having the law on your side is of little benefit if some jerk decides you shouldn't have been in the women's room...

Kate

I live in New York State, while Upstate is more conservative than NYC, its not like I'm in Kansas or something. I generally do tinkle before leaving home, but I was out for like ten hours. The misgendering has really only happened in the last three weeks, prior to this I have had no issues whatsoever.

I should add that the misgendering has only happened in the last three weeks. For the last five years I have had nearly zero issues. I know I drink too much and it is starting to affect my health, so that may have something to do with it. I'm in treatment and everyone in my substance addiction group has been very respectful though.

It could be your drinking is effecting how your hormones are being processed.

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Quote from: Janes Groove on September 08, 2018, 04:52:40 PM
Have you considered adding a little something up top?   Big boobs really help in getting read as female.  Expensive breast augmentation is not necessary.  Bird seed and balloons  (an old cross dressing trick) can be a girl's friend.   Also, a well-padded bra can work wonders in the shaping and lifting department.  Also, a tight t-shirt doesn't hurt.

As Allison mentioned, she is a 38C. How in the world do you get that much bird seed in a balloon ?

Very carefully. 

With a 38 inch chest a D cup wouldn't hurt.  The average American woman wear's a D cup. That's average.

A 38 inch chest is on the high side, 34-36 is average, for a cis woman therefore a D cup would actually appear normal on that size chest.  You could even go bigger, maybe a DD or even E and it wouldn't look at all unnatural.

It's laughable how easily advertising shifts our mores of gender- the average 20 years ago was "34B."

Quote from: Virginia on September 10, 2018, 01:09:38 PM
It's laughable how easily advertising shifts our mores of gender- the average 20 years ago was "34B."

Of course, the dimensions of a 34-B cup and the strategy for measuring cup and band size was somewhat different...

Women's clothing sizes drift quite a bit over the decades. A size 10 dress is simply the mid-size in a clothing line. A 10 Calvin Kline is a bit different than a 10 Versace or a 10 Loft.

Bra sizes have drifted as well, to let women feel a bit more well endowed. My 34B bought recently has a cup and band similar to a 34A from 25 years ago. (I don't purge as often as I should!)



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