I'm in this gray area. I don't consider myself passable but in public people always use female pronouns even after they hear my voice. 90% of the time I dress female and use the ladies room. On days I don't have the energy to do myself up I dress like a guy and use the mens room, but even in a Tshirt you can see B cup boobs. But today I wasn't dressed female, only female thing I had was a womens cut blue Tshrrt, my hair was like a guys parted over instead of pulling back with a hair band (hair is still short maybe 5" long) and people still called me she. But I really didn't know which bathroom to use. If I am dressed like a guy I would never dare use the womans room and have to explain "yes I'm trans and inside my head I'm female and have estrogen in me, so technically I blablablabla..." I would rather not make any women in the ladies room feel awkward. But last time I used the mens room a few months ago I was told I was in the wrong bathroom. Up into recently I was always called he when dressed male. But now I don't know its really hard to objectively know what you look like. Some days I see a girl in the mirror some days a guy. I don't like telling strangers I'm trans unless I'm trying to know them. Some days it's just too much to do makeup nails hair, I just want to go out of the house and come back with as little bull->-bleeped-<- as possible, including using the bathroom...

If you are male-failing when dressed as a guy, it is time to throw out your guy clothes and just use the women's washroom all the time.  You are being perceived as female.  Wear female clothes to complete the picture, and voila: you are full-time.

To be honest, I'd use the women's room if I was you.  Especially after being told you were in the wrong bathroom months ago.  We all have those days where you feel like your wrongly-assigned gender, but that doesn't mean that others see you as such.

For others to see you as your true gender, even without makeup and whatnot, that's something that would give most people gender euphoria!  So go celebrate!  Have an ice cream cone, a glass of wine or buy yourself that dress/item/pampering/etc that you've been looking at but didn't buy/do, you deserve it! 

Congrats! 

And for those that don't currently pass/never pass, it doesn't mean you are any less your true gender.  Really, it doesn't.  You're still you.  Celebrate that!

And, fwiw, I rehomed my wrong-gender clothes well before I was able to pass.  I didn't need them anymore.  So give them to your local LGBTQIA+ center so that someone that could use them, can.

Ryuichi

I avoid awkwardness, probably always will. I have one (yep, ONE) restroom that I will use at work. I had to request that they put a unisex or both sex sign up, which they did. Out and about, I will use the family room when available. Mens room if not if I'm dressed neutral. I will NOT use the womens room no matter how I'm dressed (so far no dire emergencies) with the exception being if my wife is with me and we go in together. Which has not happened yet.

In your case, with how you described it ... avoid the men's room, you don't belong in there.

Quote from: Faith on September 12, 2018, 04:36:10 PM
I avoid awkwardness, probably always will. ... I will NOT use the womens room no matter how I'm dressed (so far no dire emergencies)

I don't understand why you would never use the women's room. To avoid awkwardness, one should probably use the one that will cause the least commotion/disturbance. That might be the women's room...

If you are dressed like a sheep, it can be a bad choice to go hang with the wolves...



Kate

Your question, I think many if not most of us have had to come to terms with. Not really sure what constitutes half-passable is but you are you identify to be, no matter what others opinions are of you. I know that is hard sometimes ( and hard to get used to also ) but it is both the wonderfully exciting and challenging truth of it.

I don't really own any guy clothes but I do own lots of clothes that are fairly non-girlie for lack of a better term. When I put my ever-lengthening hair up in a bun and don't wear makeup and don't watch my voice, yeah maybe not showing my most feminine self but I still am who I am. 

I have not used a male-labeled bathroom for at least three years if not more. Do I worry about offending people? Nope, not really. What a silly thing to be offended about, I think. If our culture insists on non-legally segregating places to do our basic functions, I guess I'll play along 🙂 I've never had anyone say anything bad to me, the most is a couple quizzical or stunned looks. If anyone would confront me they better be prepared for a real confrontation.

It's sort of strange that of all the things that historically divided genders (we haven't been able to vote for even 100 years in most places) That bathrooms become the thing of the day. Lockerrooms are a bit of a touchier subject perhaps because of the open nudity that can exist if only briefly. Still, I haven't used a male labeled one of those for at least 2 yrs or more.

So yeah use the bathroom of your identity and don't look back is my advice.

I'd also add that you don't need to do nails, hair, etc. Most cis women don't either. My wife thinks it's a silly waste of time and refuses to do nails, makeup, etc. If you are male-failing then you're all set. Enjoy it, and don't worry about how you see yourself. You will always be your own harshest critic.

@KatieP

my awkwardness, not theirs. I don't use women's facilities.

I won't go into a mens room all dolled up either, nope. Since I don't pass at all in androgynous outfits it's pretty safe any other time. I pretend I'm a wolf.

Quote from: KatieP on September 12, 2018, 05:21:11 PM
I don't understand why you would never use the women's room. To avoid awkwardness, one should probably use the one that will cause the least commotion/disturbance. That might be the women's room...

If you are dressed like a sheep, it can be a bad choice to go hang with the wolves...



Kate

Quote from: Faith on September 12, 2018, 07:14:09 PM

I pretend I'm a wolf.

I am incapable of that.

Since I too don't think I pass often, playing with the wolves is just too scary. At least I stand a chance against the other sheep...

Kate

I would use the women's restroom. But I know the feeling. I'm also semi-passable. Sometimes I pass, sometimes I don't. I often hear I'm in the wrong restroom when I enter the women's domains. I only smile and say "Thank you."

It's all in my head. I don't pass...but I do more often then I believe. People don't seem to check my G-cup chest if I wear hoodies or button ups and a binder.

Stupid of me to give you advise, because I'm in the same situation. But you have my sympathies.


Tony

Quote from: MeTony on September 13, 2018, 12:05:52 AM*snip*

It's all in my head. I don't pass...but I do more often then I believe.

Remember that line!  More often than not, it is "all in your head" that you don't pass.

If people tell you "you're in the wrong bathroom," then you pass.

Again, passing or not, you should (safely!) use the bathroom that you want, not the ones you feel you "should use."  Its your body, and  your life.  If you're a transwoman/transman, then you have the right to use the one you want.

And if not, then go with a understanding friend/spouse/etc.

Ryuichi

If you are dressing like a guy, stay out of the woman's room. Unless  you feel like arguing, going to jail etc. When enfemme and there is not a unisex or family room around use the room you identify with but go in, get the job done and get out. Don't linger. Yes, you may wash your hands. My wife says I do everything half pass. 

For the last year or so I generally avoided public bathrooms. Then last weekend I went to the large and crowded womens room at a cinema... as I suspected... Its all in your head! If you male fail you pass... so go with it. Now changing rooms, they are still a challenge.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/741075/toilet-seat-public-germs-hover-squat-sit

According to this survey over half (54%) of women hover over toilet seats.  I can also do that quickly, if I need to empty my bowels.

Good question. It's not easy since I'm fairly andro right now and it's a bit awkward... I don't know how male fail can happen anymore because everyone is so hyper aware of transgender people... I'm also not really interested in putting in the effort that a "cis" female my age at 28 puts in her looks... I don't want extensions or to dye my hair or wear makeup. My appearance is somewhat like a frumpy 15 year old if anything... But I'm also about 5'9" and fairly broad.

I posted before that I like wearing dresses but it's not the most practical...
I definitely think clothes that you're comfortable in are very important. When you wrap your head around being trans and being seen as such, it's a much smoother transition with suitable clothing.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Quote from: Maid Marion on September 13, 2018, 05:20:16 AM
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/741075/toilet-seat-public-germs-hover-squat-sit

According to this survey over half (54%) of women hover over toilet seats.  I can also do that quickly, if I need to empty my bowels.

The article said over half the women do hover, but the article also said we shouldn't do that. And the related article said not to put toilet paper on the seat either.

The wonders of modern science...

I'm still gonna hover unless they have the little toilet seat covers in which case I'll use 2.  LOL  As far as TP goes, there are generally lots of very little microscopic thingies all over it.  Some from when we flush the toilet (Did you know that flushing with the seat up/open can aerosolize and spread bacteria up to a 6 foot radius?), some from when we touch or handle it.  That pic of the two sitting on the toilet where the one is passing the TP is a great example of how TP becomes contaminated from hand contact and the fun is passed on. 

Back to the original post...  I definitely think it's harder when it comes to day to day living.  I feel that you have to think about most everything you do, how you interact etc.  Using the BR is a good example.  Instead of gaining the day to day confidence and just using the right restroom etc., one has to stop and think about it.  "Women's" or "Men's"?  Makeup shopping or not?  Cloths shopping or not?     

When we continue to make things about clothes and appearance, then we continue to perpetuate that idea that it is ok to divide genders, make one gender the weaker one, etc, and expect different appearances out of different people. In my opinion.

Your identity trumps everything. The amount of people that have run into problems in the "perceived wrong restroom" has been minuscule compared with the number of trans people that use public bathrooms. Despite all the attempts and media noise about such things, the number of places where the gender sign on a public restroom or locker room is an actual legal barrier are very few. At least in the western world.

I just wanted to throw in, even passing really well (and even though men pee sitting down too) I feel weird in men's rooms unless I'm alone. I'm too scared I won't pass and I'll get my ass kicked or something. There are so many times I've gone into the female restroom, fully passing, and women would look but ignore me. in my case I kinda have a baby face that I appear androgynous more so that I can tell they're passing me off as a butch lesbian instead of just a man who went into the girls room. I don't take offense, I use it to my advantage, there's less chance of something bad happening there anyway. And it makes me feel more comfy sitting to pee anyway.

In my opinion, if you pass even when dressing like a guy, then 1) congrats , and like the first commenter said, chuck out those guy clothes lol and 2) even more of a reason to use the girls restroom. It's not like in movies where they'll run screaming out if you didn't pass anyway. They'd just be confused (think maybe THEYRE in the wrong room for a minute) and keep doing their thing. I usually go in with my gf and that's the only time she calls me by my birth name, just in case , but it's not that bad actually. Even women with kids (who are more worried about trans peeps) would just do a double take, then look away and hurry out to not be near the "freak" . People won't go through the trouble of getting security involved like a good 80% of the time. They'll just do their business and go. You're better off in the girls room no matter what. Women won't beat you up for being "the freak in the bathroom"

Oh and I don't hover, I (as my gf and I call it) teepee the seat. I line it with so much toilet paper that I wind up attempting to get the pee through a fist sized hole. (Ha. That's what she said? I think?)

Quote from: Ryuichi13 on September 12, 2018, 04:30:04 PM
To be honest, I'd use the women's room if I was you.  Especially after being told you were in the wrong bathroom months ago.  We all have those days where you feel like your wrongly-assigned gender, but that doesn't mean that others see you as such.

For others to see you as your true gender, even without makeup and whatnot, that's something that would give most people gender euphoria!  So go celebrate!  Have an ice cream cone, a glass of wine or buy yourself that dress/item/pampering/etc that you've been looking at but didn't buy/do, you deserve it! 

Congrats! 

And for those that don't currently pass/never pass, it doesn't mean you are any less your true gender.  Really, it doesn't.  You're still you.  Celebrate that!

And, fwiw, I rehomed my wrong-gender clothes well before I was able to pass.  I didn't need them anymore.  So give them to your local LGBTQIA+ center so that someone that could use them, can.

Ryuichi

I wanted this so bad a few months ago but now it seems awkward I could always do guy mode before and even though I didn't like it was normal to others. Feel trapped between genders not free from them. I used the mens room the other day and got weird looks I thought I just looked like any guy.


Too bad there is no way to look in the mirror and see what you actually look like.


My therapist said "I don't know what it is about your face but it looks very feminine much more then when I first started seeing you". I think its my cheeks and the fact I always get compliments on my pink make up and cheeks when I'm not wearing any make up. I can't scrub off my face like I could before. 


I always walked into the ladies room with such confidence until this month, first time in 6 months I used a mens room and went out in public not dressed as me, I was in my old guy clothes. In the ladies room even if you don't pass just smile at the others in there and you rarely get a double take, I have to remind myself I have walked into the ladies room a hundred times before.