Hello Bibi

Congratulations on starting HRT in September; its a wonderful feeling as you take the first tablet and apply the first patch, isn't it? I think we came across each other on the Late Age GD thread in June.

Thank you very much for your E&T readings after 5 weeks; I appreciate that. Perhaps when you have been on HRT for 3/4 months in December or January, you could again post those readings please and I will gladly add yours to the 3/4 month table.

I am maintaining the tables for 3/4 months for 6/7 months for 9/10 months and for 12/13 months to see if we have any possible trends. The third table I shall start in November and the fourth I shall start in February but anytime I am happy to add readings to tables.

Thank you for your interest and hugs

Pamela

Hi all,

U have my BT start of November for 3 month check up.
I'll provide details once I get them through, this is a fantastic idea for a thread.



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Thank you Soph for your kind words and for "joining the table" in November.

I have having my 9 month BT on Nov 12th and should get result online on Nov 14th and soon after update the tables.

Hugs

Pamela

9 month BT tomorrow (a little late though) so will post them soon. feels like they have changed one or both of them.

Luv n Hugz

Katie
     

Thank you Katie. I am expecting my T to be down as a result of the Decapetyl/Triptorelin and for my E also to down from its previous high level. More relevantly for me, I am feeling happy and motivated thanks to HRT!

Hugs

Pamela

So you can add me to the table.
4 months

US Based

E 56 T 6

Progynova sublingual pill and Finesteride. No blocker used.

Pamela, is this just for the FIRST 3,,6,9,12 months then?  want to participate but not sure what is being represented...

HUGS, Marcie

Docs failed to take Hormone test .... not happy so have to wait another 3 weeks it seems....
Hope its worth it

Luv n Hugz

Katie

   

I want to participate, but my dates are different. I did not receive a hormone test before starting HRT. My tests will represent 2, 5, 8, 11 months. I still believe that they will be usable. I should have something to add in a few weeks. Also, my doctor is following the Callen-Lorde protocols and that will give some information that you may need. I take Spironolactone and the Patch.

My doctor at Callen Lorde told me that the transgender care industry was leaning away from consistent monitoring of hormone levels for transitioning patients, playing it by ear until things stall or something goes wrong. At which point, they would check. Have any of you heard this? He's moving on at the end of November and I will be seeing a new doctor. I wonder if it's something I should bring up?

Edit: To be clear, I haven't had any issue with my dosages or my progress but maybe I just got lucky?

I am all for testing every three months to make sure that everything is going as planned. Why wait until something stalls or goes wrong. Preventative maintenance makes sense.

Quote from: gingerViktorKay on November 01, 2018, 10:43:17 AM
I am all for testing every three months to make sure that everything is going as planned. Why wait until something stalls or goes wrong. Preventative maintenance makes sense.

Because after the initial "set up" period, once proper dosing is obtained for the patient, 3 monthly monitoring makes no sense, financially or otherwise. 6-12 month testing is all that's needed at this point.

Trans people, particularly trans women, place way too much importance on "serum levels" and ignore that the actual levels are unimportant as long as they meet certain threshold values. But then, most still operate on 90's vintage health care and are unlikely to meet those threshold levels - trans HRT is about as current as using laudanum for coughs. 

I am not sure how my Endo personalty identifies, but based on the beard and overall male presentation I can extrapolate that this person's identity is male. From what I understood blood test will be done periodically until levels are where they need to be. Some people need more and some people need less. How would a doctor know without tests. Anyhow, it makes sense that once levels are in the correct range to reduce testing frequency.

Quote from: PurplePelican on November 01, 2018, 04:07:53 PM
...trans HRT is about as current as using laudanum for coughs.

I understand that HRT is new and more research is needed. I also remember him saying that the HRT process is very easy.

Quote from: gingerViktorKay on November 02, 2018, 03:37:20 AM
I understand that HRT is new and more research is needed. I also remember him saying that the HRT process is very easy.

Trans HRT is far from new.. It was being done in the early 1900's at the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft in Berlin. You've probably seen the famous pic of the Nazi's burning the Institute's library..

However, that's not the issue.. The issue is that despite advances and research being done in other areas of medicine in regards to hormone treatments, the trans health world seems fixated on a protocol that is based as much in fallacy as it is fact.. "Too high estradiol levels cause DVT", "You need an antiandrogen to suppress T." and other such chestnuts.. These are "facts" upon which the current MTF HRT protocols are based.. The first is mostly a lie.. The 2nd is an outright lie for 90%+ of people.

I refer MtF HRT as new not based on the date when the technology was available, but on the usage. A sex change is still not very common.

Quote from: PurplePelican on November 02, 2018, 02:16:37 PM
... "Too high estradiol levels cause DVT", "You need an antiandrogen to suppress T." and other such chestnuts.. These are "facts" upon which the current MTF HRT protocols are based.. The first is mostly a lie.. The 2nd is an outright lie for 90%+ of people.

I've not heard of any pregnant woman getting a DVT, but other factors may be involved. High levels of Estrogen are capable of reducing T production, but I do not know of any doctor that will prescribe that much E. Honestly, I do not know how much E would be needed. Maybe it does not take much. I don't know.

Unfortunately, people have to play by the rules set forth. When I get tested then I will post results.

Love this thread. I will post my 4 months in early December.

Quote from: gingerViktorKay on November 02, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
I refer MtF HRT as new not based on the date when the technology was available, but on the usage. A sex change is still not very common.

Common or not, it's been around for quite some time. It's estimated that we have only recently started to reach the levels of understanding that the Germans had in the 30's.

QuoteI've not heard of any pregnant woman getting a DVT, but other factors may be involved. High levels of Estrogen are capable of reducing T production, but I do not know of any doctor that will prescribe that much E. Honestly, I do not know how much E would be needed. Maybe it does not take much. I don't know.

The level needed is not especially high by any means, at least not for most people. The DVT risk is almost entirely associated with oral administration, with other delivery methods the risk is about the same as the general population. This has been shown in other areas of medicine. Their are protocols out there for other medical issues that have the same end results and they are done entirely with estradiol - more importantly, they are backed by research and clinical practice.

QuoteUnfortunately, people have to play by the rules set forth. When I get tested then I will post results.

The thing about medicine is that the rules only stay the rules for as long as the majority of practitioners in the field agree and a change is coming. Slowly but surely, more doctors are moving away from the "old school" HRT protocols in light of more modern data.

Quote from: PurplePelican on November 03, 2018, 02:41:48 AM
Common or not, it's been around for quite some time. It's estimated that we have only recently started to reach the levels of understanding that the Germans had in the 30's.

The Germans were so very advanced in so many ways. Back then R&D meant Recover and Discover. Rest assured the governments of the world kept this information and developed it behind closed doors.

Quote from: PurplePelican on November 03, 2018, 02:41:48 AM
The thing about medicine is that the rules only stay the rules for as long as the majority of practitioners in the field agree and a change is coming. Slowly but surely, more doctors are moving away from the "old school" HRT protocols in light of more modern data.

Can you divulge some of these changes?

Quote from: PurplePelican on November 03, 2018, 02:41:48 AM


The level needed is not especially high by any means, at least not for most people. The DVT risk is almost entirely associated with oral administration, with other delivery methods the risk is about the same as the general population. This has been shown in other areas of medicine. Their are protocols out there for other medical issues that have the same end results and they are done entirely with estradiol - more importantly, they are backed by research and clinical practice.

The thing about medicine is that the rules only stay the rules for as long as the majority of practitioners in the field agree and a change is coming. Slowly but surely, more doctors are moving away from the "old school" HRT protocols in light of more modern data.

The DVT risk with estradiol is only theoretical. Premarin and synthetic types used in oral contraceptives have shown a risk so it a precaution that really hasn't been proved or disproved. 

The drug is already on the market and available generically, so no drug company is going to lay out the cash for clinical trials regarding dosing and side effects, especially for a relatively small patient population.  With out the cash from drug company marketing, you are very correct in that it's going to take a while for any improvements to become standard treatments. 



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Quote from: TonyaW on November 03, 2018, 07:32:37 AM
The DVT risk with estradiol is only theoretical. Premarin and synthetic types used in oral contraceptives have shown a risk so it a precaution that really hasn't been proved or disproved. 

The drug is already on the market and available generically, so no drug company is going to lay out the cash for clinical trials regarding dosing and side effects, especially for a relatively small patient population.  With out the cash from drug company marketing, you are very correct in that it's going to take a while for any improvements to become standard treatments. 

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There is no profit in it. Drug companies just want the next big thing to make the most money possible. This is why threads like this are important. It can help someone determine if there is nothing to worry about or if a second opinion from a doctor is needed.