So as the title of this topic says I'm wondering if anybody has come up with ways to increase the speed on which the estrogen pill patch or shot actually works I myself take the pill it is a lot slower than the patch and the shot but I would like to help it speed up preferably without self-medicating other than vitamins and creams

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Quote from: Arianna Valentine on December 10, 2018, 06:21:05 PM
So as the title of this topic says I'm wondering if anybody has come up with ways to increase the speed on which the estrogen pill patch or shot actually works I myself take the pill it is a lot slower than the patch and the shot but I would like to help it speed up preferably without self-medicating other than vitamins and creams

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Some ladies here have posted to put the patch on your rear, where you want fat to accumulate.

Also, some have said to get an orchiectomy or otherwise drop your T levels.

Stay in good health.  No smoking, no bad drugs, and curtail alcohol consumption.

Has your physician given you any advice on this?

Results may not come by quickly for a lot of trans-women though.  This might just be a case where nature has to take its course, and your doctor maybe changing dosages.  Cis girls develop over years, not months.

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 10, 2018, 06:32:51 PM

Some ladies here have posted to put the patch on your rear, where you want fat to accumulate.

Also, some have said to get an orchiectomy or otherwise drop your T levels.

Stay in good health.  No smoking, no bad drugs, and curtail alcohol consumption.

Has your physician given you any advice on this?

Results may not come by quickly for a lot of trans-women though.  This might just be a case where nature has to take its course, and your doctor maybe changing dosages.  Cis girls develop over years, not months.

Chrissy

Other than that not smoking not really I can't use the patch because I'm allergic to the adhesive so I'm stuck using the pills and I don't know what that procedure was that you mentioned is

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Quote from: Arianna Valentine on December 10, 2018, 06:34:10 PM
Other than that not smoking not really I can't use the patch because I'm allergic to the adhesive so I'm stuck using the pills and I don't know what that procedure was that you mentioned is

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

An orchiectomy or orchi is when your testicles are removed.  I do not think that a lot of trans-women do that shortly after starting mtf HRT, some will likley post to say when they did that.

I think someone said here that the shots were more potent than the pills for her.

Linde (Dietlind) has made some posts about the adhesive.  Maybe you can get an alternative adhesive patch.  She will likley post soon here.

Chrissy

My thoughts on this is, your physician prescribed medication that if taken as directed will be the optimal way to achieve your own personal needs.  If you deviate from that it could actually slow up your progress.  It's always safest and best to do what the doctor ordered.
Never combine any otc substance that may interfere with it either.  If in question, ask your doctor..

Hugs, Jessica

Quote from: Arianna Valentine on December 10, 2018, 06:21:05 PM
So as the title of this topic says I'm wondering if anybody has come up with ways to increase the speed on which the estrogen pill patch or shot actually works I myself take the pill it is a lot slower than the patch and the shot but I would like to help it speed up preferably without self-medicating other than vitamins and creams

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 10, 2018, 06:39:53 PM

An orchiectomy or orchi is when your testicles are removed.  I do not think that a lot of trans-women do that shortly after starting mtf HRT, some will likley post to say when they did that.

I think someone said here that the shots were more potent than the pills for her.

Linde (Dietlind) has made some posts about the adhesive.  Maybe you can get an alternative adhesive patch.  She will likley post soon here.

Chrissy

I do know that the shots are more effective than the pills but my insurance won't pay for the shots my insurance fully pays for the pills

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Quote from: Jessica on December 10, 2018, 06:42:31 PM
My thoughts on this is, your physician prescribed medication that if taken as directed will be the optimal way to achieve your own personal needs.  If you deviate from that it could actually slow up your progress.  It's always safest and best to do what the doctor ordered.
Never combine any otc substance that may interfere with it either.  If in question, ask your doctor..

Hugs, Jessica

Thank you very much Jessica I'm trying not to take anything other than I do take prenatal vitamins and biotin which were both okay by my doctor and now I am considering the orchiectomy because honestly I don't care if I have my testicles or not I don't plan on using them I've got two kids I did my part to the world and my family

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Quote from: Arianna Valentine on December 10, 2018, 06:43:24 PM
I do know that the shots are more effective than the pills but my insurance won't pay for the shots my insurance fully pays for the pills

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

I think just being patient makes sense.  You should talk with your doctor and just do what she or he says.  You can ask your doctor to consider some other medicines but I would not deviate from your medicines as prescribed, that is, no addition or subtractions. 

You can ask when the orchi would be allowed. 

No doctor is likely tell you to not stop smoking.
Staying healthy is not going to be objected to either.

Chrissy

OK, here comes my patch experience.  The best location for a patch is over fatty tissue, it seems that the transfer rate into the blood stream is the best in those locations.
My employer makes almost any of the patches out there, which means, we make the base material and adhesive, and pharmaceutical companies add their medication.  Transdermal patches are used for almost a million different medications as the vehicles to get the medication into the blood stream without undo burden on the stomach.

I placed my first patch on my lower belly, just a little higher than the pubic hair.  This is probably one of the more sensitive skin areas of the body.  I got a pretty bad skin reaction after a few days, with a lot of blistering.  It took over a week for the skin to heal again.  I applied the next patch to the inside of my upper thigh, this resulted in a mild skin reaction.  I worked with the manufacturer of the patches (the pharmaceutical company), because I had the suspicion that some faulty adhesive was used.  We established a way that I could receive patches from a different manufacturing lot, and mine went back for QA testing.
I applied the new patches to my back just above the buttocks, and I did not have an adverse skin reaction.  But the skin is not as sensitive in this area either.
I would strongly recommend to any patch user, to apply the patches in the are over the buttocks, to avoid any nasty skin reactions!

Now I have a question.  As of today i am on the estrogen pills (because I don't want to bother my poor skin anymore).
I read somewhere here that some ladies her put them under their tongue and let them dissolve there.  What is the purpose of this exercise.
Why is this rather uncomfortable route of ingesting the pills undertaken?

To answer the original

Quote from: Arianna Valentine on December 10, 2018, 06:21:05 PM
... I'm wondering if anybody has come up with ways to increase the speed on which the estrogen pill patch or shot actually works...

The only safe and effective way to speed feminization is to see your Endocrinologist regularly to make sure your hormone blood levels are in the proper range. Excessively high blood levels will not speed things up and may increase your chances of an adverse side effect. Some people do respond to one route better than another method. Other people add Progesterone. Whatever works for you and with the consent of your Endocrinologist is just fine. You cannot expect any better.

My results are just average for someone my age. I experienced some feminization within one year and after three years I was fully transitioned. Faster results may be experienced by someone who started HRT much younger than me. Those who started as a teenager have exhibited complete transition after 6 to 8 months of HRT in some cases.

Losing weight and facial hair is also feminizing and gives the appearance of a faster transition.

In short, you cannot speed up the Estradiol. Just keep your hormones blood levels in the proper range and do all the other things you need to do in order to feminize yourself and let the magic of the hormones happen. It will be here before you know it.

Since you are taking the pill you can take it sublingual.  Put it under the tong.  It's safer also then swallowing it.  When one swallows the pill you have a higher risk of clotting.  This is because your system is detecting estrogen in you digestive system and is trying to stop it.

You want to put the pill under your tong.  The goal is to NOT taste it.  It will take a while for the pill to dissolve.

There was a good study done on this that has chart comparing estrogen levels.  One group swallowed the pill every 6 hours and the other group dissolved it under their tong every 6 hours.  They would then draw blood and test the e levels.  There was a very big difference between the two groups.

A lot doctors do recommend the sublingual method now.


Yes you should talk with your doctor.

Also there are threads here about this and elsewhere on the internet.

Quote from: Dani on December 10, 2018, 07:11:46 PM
To answer the original
The only safe and effective way to speed feminization is to see your Endocrinologist regularly to make sure your hormone blood levels are in the proper range. Excessively high blood levels will not speed things up and may increase your chances of an adverse side effect. Some people do respond to one route better than another method. Other people add Progesterone. Whatever works for you and with the consent of your Endocrinologist is just fine. You cannot expect any better.

My results are just average for someone my age. I experienced some feminization within one year and after three years I was fully transitioned. Faster results may be experienced by someone who started HRT much younger than me. Those who started as a teenager have exhibited complete transition after 6 to 8 months of HRT in some cases.

Losing weight and facial hair is also feminizing and gives the appearance of a faster transition.

In short, you cannot speed up the Estradiol. Just keep your hormones blood levels in the proper range and do all the other things you need to do in order to feminize yourself and let the magic of the hormones happen. It will be here before you know it.

I thank you very much for the information Dani I am following my in those orders to a T it's just I guess frustrating that is taking so long I am getting my signs that it's working but I don't know I guess I'm just getting antsy

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Quote from: CindyLouFromDBQ on December 10, 2018, 07:18:01 PM
Since you are taking the pill you can take it sublingual.  Put it under the tong.  It's safer also then swallowing it.  When one swallows the pill you have a higher risk of clotting.  This is because your system is detecting estrogen in you digestive system and is trying to stop it.

You want to put the pill under your tong.  The goal is to NOT taste it.  It will take a while for the pill to dissolve.

There was a good study done on this that has chart comparing estrogen levels.  One group swallowed the pill every 6 hours and the other group dissolved it under their tong every 6 hours.  They would then draw blood and test the e levels.  There was a very big difference between the two groups.

A lot doctors do recommend the sublingual method now.


Yes you should talk with your doctor.

Also there are threads here about this and elsewhere on the internet.

I thank you very much Cindy Lou I do believe I will talk to my doctor about letting it dissolve under my tongue rather than swallowing it and see what she says about it but that does sound very interesting that putting it under your tongue would be more effective although it also makes sense because by the time the pill hits your stomach and dissolves the acid would destroy most of the estrogen anyways I would think

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Quote from: Dietlind on December 10, 2018, 07:05:35 PM
Now I have a question.  As of today i am on the estrogen pills (because I don't want to bother my poor skin anymore).
I read somewhere here that some ladies her put them under their tongue and let them dissolve there.  What is the purpose of this exercise.
Why is this rather uncomfortable route of ingesting the pills undertaken?

Sublingual is used by many of us, myself included, to give us a higher blood level and to avoid the first pass through the liver where the Estradiol is metabolized to less active or completely inactive compounds.

Sublingual is not uncomfortable for me. I take a drink of water to moisten my mouth first. Then place the uncoated tablet under the tongue and let it sit there until fully dissolved, about 10 to 15 minutes. Try not to swallow during that time. When the tablet is fully dissolved, you can spread the liquid, which has a sweet taste, to other areas in your mouth, such as the area between your jaw and cheek. As long as the liquid is in contact with the moist inner surface of your mouth, the Estradiol will be absorbed directly into your blood system.

After about 30 minutes, I can no longer taste the Estradiol. At that time, I will resume eating and drinking.

The disadvantage of sublingual administration is that you will get a very high peak blood level for a very short time. This does not matter. What does matter is your average blood level over a long time period. Patches and Injections give a more steady blood level and they avoid the first pass through the liver as well. Swallowing the tablet causes the tablet to dissolve in the stomach. From there the Estradiol goes straight to the liver for metabolism. The blood levels are much lower than sublingual for the same sized tablet, but the blood levels are more steady, similar to patches or injections.

After all is said and done, Just keep your blood levels in the normal female range and do this for at least 3 years.

Quote from: Dani on December 10, 2018, 07:28:23 PM

Quote from: Dietlind on December 10, 2018, 07:05:35 PM
Now I have a question.  As of today i am on the estrogen pills (because I don't want to bother my poor skin anymore).
I read somewhere here that some ladies her put them under their tongue and let them dissolve there.  What is the purpose of this exercise.
Why is this rather uncomfortable route of ingesting the pills undertaken?

Sublingual is used by many of us, myself included, to give us a higher blood level and to avoid the first pass through the liver where the Estradiol is metabolized to less active or completely inactive compounds.

Sublingual is not uncomfortable for me. I take a drink of water to moisten my mouth first. Then place the uncoated tablet under the tongue and let it sit there until fully dissolved, about 10 to 15 minutes. Try not to swallow during that time. When the tablet is fully dissolved, you can spread the liquid, which has a sweet taste, to other areas in your mouth, such as the area between your jaw and cheek. As long as the liquid is in contact with the moist inner surface of your mouth, the Estradiol will be absorbed directly into your blood system.

After about 30 minutes, I can no longer taste the Estradiol. At that time, I will resume eating and drinking.

The disadvantage of sublingual administration is that you will get a very high peak blood level for a very short time. This does not matter. What does matter is your average blood level over a long time period. Patches and Injections give a more steady blood level and they avoid the first pass through the liver as well. Swallowing the tablet causes the tablet to dissolve in the stomach. From there the Estradiol goes straight to the liver for metabolism. The blood levels are much lower than sublingual for the same sized tablet, but the blood levels are more steady, similar to patches or injections.

After all is said and done, Just keep your blood levels in the normal female range and do this for at least 3 years.

Dani, I know that you are a professional in this area. Do you have a reference for this method? I was asked by health professionals in the area as they get requests from their patients about using sublingual absorption and there is a feeling that it may be an 'urban myth'. There are medications designed for sublingual absorption but if the medication is not designed for it is there any clinical evidence that there is any benefit? I'm talking about a reference to a controlled study.

Thanks
Cindy

Quote from: Arianna Valentine on December 10, 2018, 07:22:04 PM
I thank you very much Cindy Lou I do believe I will talk to my doctor about letting it dissolve under my tongue rather than swallowing it and see what she says about it but that does sound very interesting that putting it under your tongue would be more effective although it also makes sense because by the time the pill hits your stomach and dissolves the acid would destroy most of the estrogen anyways I would think

I don't know how well the mouth absorbe estrogen.  Presumably it does so moderately well or people wouldn't do it.  Any route that avoids the stomach will likely improve absorption, because the stomach will break down most of the dose before it even gets to the bloodstream. 

My patches contain a small fraction of the estrogen that is in pills, yet we end up with similar blood levels.  It is because 90% of the estrogen going via the stomach gets destroyed before it is absorbed.

Quote from: KathyLauren on December 10, 2018, 08:00:47 PM
I don't know how well the mouth absorbe estrogen.  Presumably it does so moderately well or people wouldn't do it.  Any route that avoids the stomach will likely improve absorption, because the stomach will break down most of the dose before it even gets to the bloodstream. 

My patches contain a small fraction of the estrogen that is in pills, yet we end up with similar blood levels.  It is because 90% of the estrogen going via the stomach gets destroyed before it is absorbed.

It does makes some sense if the patch with a lower amount of estrogen than the pills but gives the same average blood level results, that the daily estrogen dosage would be lower in the patch as compared with the pill.

So this makes me think, if sublingual for the same dose of pill puts more estrogen in the blood, including on an average estrogen blood level basis, should you not take a lower estrogen dose sublingually as compared to swallowing?

This leads me to think that everyone should talk with her endocrinologist before switching to sublingual to make sure it is safe to do so.  Too much estrogen might be a problem for you.


Chrissy

Quote from: Dani on December 10, 2018, 07:28:23 PM
Sublingual is used by many of us, myself included, to give us a higher blood level and to avoid the first pass through the liver where the Estradiol is metabolized to less active or completely inactive compounds.

Sublingual is not uncomfortable for me. I take a drink of water to moisten my mouth first. Then place the uncoated tablet under the tongue and let it sit there until fully dissolved, about 10 to 15 minutes. Try not to swallow during that time. When the tablet is fully dissolved, you can spread the liquid, which has a sweet taste, to other areas in your mouth, such as the area between your jaw and cheek. As long as the liquid is in contact with the moist inner surface of your mouth, the Estradiol will be absorbed directly into your blood system.

After about 30 minutes, I can no longer taste the Estradiol. At that time, I will resume eating and drinking.

The disadvantage of sublingual administration is that you will get a very high peak blood level for a very short time. This does not matter. What does matter is your average blood level over a long time period. Patches and Injections give a more steady blood level and they avoid the first pass through the liver as well. Swallowing the tablet causes the tablet to dissolve in the stomach. From there the Estradiol goes straight to the liver for metabolism. The blood levels are much lower than sublingual for the same sized tablet, but the blood levels are more steady, similar to patches or injections.

After all is said and done, Just keep your blood levels in the normal female range and do this for at least 3 years.

What you are telling me is to use the pill for a subversion of transdermal delivery, kind of trans mucous membrane.  That is basically the same idea my coworkers had, when they developed the transdermal delivery systems.

I will give it a try, and see how self controlled I am!

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!
Linde

Quote from: Arianna Valentine on December 10, 2018, 06:21:05 PM
So as the title of this topic says I'm wondering if anybody has come up with ways to increase the speed on which the estrogen pill patch or shot actually works I myself take the pill it is a lot slower than the patch and the shot but I would like to help it speed up preferably without self-medicating other than vitamins and creams

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

For pills don't swallow them. Put them under your tongue and allow the estrogen to absorb through the skin. The swallow what is left.