I will admit that if you work in a formal environment (office, etc.) than skirts and heels it is.  So if that works for you I say go for it.  I am kind of envious as it would be fun to dress up for work more.  I wear cute scrubs at work but no heels or anything.  When I go out, which isn't often, I am going to try dressing a little nicer.  I got a super cute top at maurices that is more dressy than casual, and I am going to get some cute heels and long jeans to go with it.  Usually it is just a tee and jeans and tennis shoes "yawn".

Audrey

Yeah, Im a chef so all i wear is jeans and tees, then my whites over... teh boring and teh frumpy.... all the waitresses are all dressed up, so are the bar staff, i feel like the ugly duckling along with the other kitchen staff.
R >

Quote from: Rachael on February 27, 2008, 12:48:05 AM
Yeah, Im a chef so all i wear is jeans and tees, then my whites over... teh boring and teh frumpy.... all the waitresses are all dressed up, so are the bar staff, i feel like the ugly duckling along with the other kitchen staff.
R >

I dress like that all the time ..lol....I wear jeans t -shirt, a plain hooded coat, or Denim jacket, sometimes trainers or long boots and no make up.....I don't have a need to dress up as I feel comfortable with who I am. I'm never percieved as male..

too slow love, i made that joke a page ago
R >

Still catching up here.  It's not in how you dress, but in how you act that people normally catch.  I can dress ultra fem or whatever and don't have a problem.  However, when I've told people I'm TS, the common reaction is disbelief and it is often followed by "but you are so natural" or that "you act so womanly".  My response is that I'm just being myself, which is true.

Anyhow, you KNOW that you pass when you stop looking for signs that you pass and it's something you just expect.

knowing when you pass?

You need to put yourself in as many situations as possible. Riding on the tube / train in the rush hour, ride on buses, the Airport, the ladies washroom, Ladies shop changing rooms, wear a ladies swiming costume at the baths, Job interviews, go to the pub, gigs, straight night clubs, gay night clubs etc....

Basically go out as much as possible then you will know if you pass or not..

Quote from: mickie on February 07, 2008, 11:22:51 AM
i really seriously wasn't even trying..honestly!! when my son was in the hospital for being dehydrated.
Mickie

Aw poor thing... how did he get like that? Is he ok now?

Quote from: Berliegh on April 15, 2008, 06:35:59 AM
knowing when you pass?

You need to put yourself in as many situations as possible. Riding on the tube / train in the rush hour, ride on buses, the Airport, the ladies washroom, Ladies shop changing rooms, wear a ladies swiming costume at the baths, Job interviews, go to the pub, gigs, straight night clubs, gay night clubs etc....

Basically go out as much as possible then you will know if you pass or not..

I agree, Berliegh, that is the only way to do it.  You have to go out and get called ma'am in as many situations as you come across.  But don't do it unless you are ready to hear the results.  Those are great ideas.  Here are some other possibilities (not for the feint of heart):  Go around a bunch of teenage girls.  That will get you read if anything will.  Follow them into the rest room.  Stop and check out the mineral makeup at one of those stores at the mall.  Strike up a conversation with a hair stylist.  Go out to eat and ask where the rest room is, see which one they point you to.  Buy a bra at a department store or lingerie store and talk to the other women in line with you.  Order fast food at a drive through window and see if you can get called ma'am before they even see you. 

You have to step out of your comfort zone if you are going to really know.

Kristi

QuoteYou have to step out of your comfort zone if you are going to really know.

I've stepped out of my comfort zone... it's just staying out there that's the
problem

It's like a battle with myself every time I go out... but I just
take a deep breath and go for it and I've never regretted it.

I guess my question is when did your comfort zone expand so that
you did not think about it and just ran out to get something? Or walked
up to some one and started chatting?

That's the place I need to get to.

Amanda

Quote from: Berliegh on April 15, 2008, 06:35:59 AM
knowing when you pass?

You need to put yourself in as many situations as possible. Riding on the tube / train in the rush hour, ride on buses, the Airport, the ladies washroom, Ladies shop changing rooms, wear a ladies swiming costume at the baths, Job interviews, go to the pub, gigs, straight night clubs, gay night clubs etc....

Basically go out as much as possible then you will know if you pass or not..

So imagine you do all that for a few years, and apparently pass just fine all that time. But then suddenly one day someone refers to you as "sir." Do you still get to claim "you pass?" Or does that one "read" invalidate the claim?

No one ever knows if they pass 100% or not. It's impossible, unless you grab everyone who's ever walked past you on the street and tortured them to tell the truth. Not everyone who "reads" us is going to say something about it.

But you know you're *functionally* passable when you can live your life to your satisfaction. And IMHO, that's really what matters. I'll never know if everyone I encounter thinks I'm a genetic female, but I DO know that I can live my life as Kate now.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kristi on April 15, 2008, 09:31:33 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on April 15, 2008, 06:35:59 AM
knowing when you pass?

You need to put yourself in as many situations as possible. Riding on the tube / train in the rush hour, ride on buses, the Airport, the ladies washroom, Ladies shop changing rooms, wear a ladies swiming costume at the baths, Job interviews, go to the pub, gigs, straight night clubs, gay night clubs etc....

Basically go out as much as possible then you will know if you pass or not..

I agree, Berliegh, that is the only way to do it.  You have to go out and get called ma'am in as many situations as you come across.  But don't do it unless you are ready to hear the results.  Those are great ideas.  Here are some other possibilities (not for the feint of heart):  Go around a bunch of teenage girls.  That will get you read if anything will.  Follow them into the rest room.  Stop and check out the mineral makeup at one of those stores at the mall.  Strike up a conversation with a hair stylist.  Go out to eat and ask where the rest room is, see which one they point you to.  Buy a bra at a department store or lingerie store and talk to the other women in line with you.  Order fast food at a drive through window and see if you can get called ma'am before they even see you. 

You have to step out of your comfort zone if you are going to really know.

Kristi

That's right Kristi.....I often ride on the London tube when the kids are coming out and the carrage is filled with teenage girls. Sometimes other ladies chat on the train to me and I'm lucky as I have a really good feminine voice which carries me along through so many situations.

As for hairstylists a few years ago when I was a bit younger and foolish I went and got some hair extensions put in. The girl who put them in was about 19. I asumed she thought I was TS and so I foolishly told her.......she then said 'no way'...this is a joke right'.  So I said 'yea'..just kidding'.  After that I never asumed anything...

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 15, 2008, 09:57:38 AM
I guess my question is when did your comfort zone expand so that
you did not think about it and just ran out to get something? Or walked
up to some one and started chatting?

Try focusing on the task at hand, and forget about the TSism. I know, I KNOW, but seriously...

I'm an obsessive worrier. I anticipate every horrible outcome when about to do something. But once I'm THERE, I'm fine. It's not the actual interaction with people that I have trouble with, it's the minutes/hours leading up to it when my mind starts imagining What Ifs. And to be fair, I've ALWAYS done that. It's not a TS thing. TSism just exposes an existing problem of mine.

Once I'm actually DOING whatever... shopping, dining, visiting, dealing with techs... whatever... I'm fine. In fact, sometimes it's hard to shut me up, lol. I ENJOY being me now... once I'm past that "omg, what if...?" part.

~Kate~

When a stranger smiles at you and gives you a rose.

Quote
Try focusing on the task at hand, and forget about the TSism. I know, I KNOW, but seriously...
I'm an obsessive worrier. I anticipate every horrible outcome when about to do something. But once I'm THERE, I'm fine. It's not the actual interaction with people that I have trouble with, it's the minutes/hours leading up to it when my mind starts imagining What Ifs. And to be fair, I've ALWAYS done that. It's not a TS thing. TSism just exposes an existing problem of mine.

Yea I can see that... I think I do that to some extent too.

I came to the conclusion that it's going to take going out and "trying" to pass and doing that over and over until I know
I do. ....along with a whole list of things I need to get done starting with laser.

Amanda

Quote from: AlwaysAmanda on April 15, 2008, 03:29:15 PM
I came to the conclusion that it's going to take going out and "trying" to pass and doing that over and over until I know
I do...

LOL, been there, TRIED that, lol. You know how some people AVOID situations? Well, I obssesively put myself INTO them. I CANNOT back down from any opportunity or invitation for fear it'll start me down a slippery slope of avoiding things. I don't do bars or whatever, but I DO live my life and get out as I always have... only much moreso now.

And yet, a year of RLT, never ever hearing a nasty pronoun or getting a weird stare... and I was STILL convinced that The Next Encounter would be the one when everything fell apart.

The "trick" though, as I'm finally learning, is to JUST NOT CARE. And I do NOT mean you need to build up some super sense of self-acceptance or whatever they call it. IMHO, doing that means you're STILL obsessed with passing. "Trying to pass and seeing what happens" over and over just solidifies an obsession with passing, rather than cures it.

No, you just gotta let it go. Stop being TS, and just be Amanda. Don't obsess on passing. Don't obsess on self-acceptance. Just go pick up your pizza, buy some milk, whatever... and focus on THAT. On life. Don't go shopping as "a TS to see if you pass," just... go shopping. No "presenting" as anything. No "enfemme." No freaking about how to hold your hands, how to walk, how to breath. You're just another shopper buying that cute top, and that's all.

~Kate~

QuoteLOL, been there, TRIED that, lol. You know how some people AVOID situations? Well, I obssesively put myself INTO them. I CANNOT back down from any opportunity or invitation for fear it'll start me down a slippery slope of avoiding things. I don't do bars or whatever, but I DO live my life and get out as I always have... only much moreso now.

Yea...lol... it's "face your fears or they will control you" type thing for me too.

Quote
No, you just gotta let it go. Stop being TS, and just be Amanda. Don't obsess on passing. Don't obsess on self-acceptance. Just go pick up your pizza, buy some milk, whatever... and focus on THAT. On life. Don't go shopping as "a TS to see if you pass," just... go shopping. No "presenting" as anything. No "enfemme." No freaking about how to hold your hands, how to walk, how to breath. You're just another shopper buying that cute top, and that's all.

Oh yea... that sounds easy

LOL... why do things sound so easy when you think about them, right up until you have to do them and
then it's like "what was I thinking". I hear what you're saying though I need to relax and be myself. And that's actually
what I had in mind when I wrote I need to go out and try.  It's never been an act for me in the past but I do
feel stiff and not relaxed at all.

Amanda

Quote from: Kate on April 15, 2008, 03:51:02 PMNo, you just gotta let it go. Stop being TS, and just be Amanda. Don't obsess on passing. Don't obsess on self-acceptance. Just go pick up your pizza, buy some milk, whatever... and focus on THAT. On life. Don't go shopping as "a TS to see if you pass," just... go shopping. No "presenting" as anything. No "enfemme." No freaking about how to hold your hands, how to walk, how to breath. You're just another shopper buying that cute top, and that's all.

Excellent advice. In the months since I transitioned to fulltime, I almost always forget about "gender" entirely when walking around on the street doing stuff. In my conscious awareness, I'm just me, doing what I do. I have completely gotten past the need to think about it or be conscious of it at all. I don't go around thinking "I'm a woman." I just am a woman, and what I'm thinking about throughout the day is where I'm going, what I'm doing, T.C.B. I have no trouble with "passing" like I used to when I was worrying about it all the time. It happens effortlessly. I know this sounds banal, but it's such a big change from how I used to be, when I catch myself forgetting about gender, I still feel astonished at how relaxed about it I feel now, so relaxed I keep forgetting about it. This is very good.

Amanda, you will arrive at this stage in your own good time. Trust yourself, trust the transformational process. It just takes time, and before you know it, you too will achieve success. It's kind of Zen... becoming successful by forgetting all about success.

Quote from: Hypatia on April 15, 2008, 06:13:27 PM
Excellent advice. In the months since I transitioned to fulltime, I almost always forget about "gender" entirely when walking around on the street doing stuff. In my conscious awareness, I'm just me, doing what I do. I have completely gotten past the need to think about it or be conscious of it at all. I don't go around thinking "I'm a woman." I just am a woman, and what I'm thinking about throughout the day is where I'm going, what I'm doing, T.C.B. I have no trouble with "passing" like I used to when I was worrying about it all the time. It happens effortlessly. I know this sounds banal, but it's such a big change from how I used to be, when I catch myself forgetting about gender, I still feel astonished at how relaxed about it I feel now, so relaxed I keep forgetting about it. This is very good.

Amanda, you will arrive at this stage in your own good time. Trust yourself, trust the transformational process. It just takes time, and before you know it, you too will achieve success. It's kind of Zen... becoming successful by forgetting all about success.

I have to think that the confidence in who you are also helps others see you as who you are, which helps you pass, no?  I find myself, while new at this whole transitioning thing, finally just being myself.  I don't know really if I pass or not, though I'm probably close (I was never a girly girl anyway). I guess I'll find out soon enough.  In the meantime, I am Jay.  I am male.  I am me.

Kate, while I agree that trying too hard makes a girl just that much less passable, the truth is that, as Cindiana Jones likes to say, we need to practice the craft.  I'll be honest, I practice whenever I get the chance.  Sometimes I look at my makeup and just start all over.  I observe girls and try emulate what they do and how they do it.  I listen to good female readers and work on inflections of my voice.  And yes, I sometimes obsess about things way out of proportion.  Sometimes I make mistakes and cringe to see how I went out that day.  I'm my own worst enemy.  It's all part of growing up.  But as time goes by I slowly build confidence.  And that's what makes a girl passable, more than anything else.  I cringe at how some go out, just not caring about how they present themselves.  That gives us all a bad name.  We don't all have to pass every time, and we probably never will.  But that is no excuse for not doing our best to put forward a positive image.  While I know I will never look like a supermodel, I don't want to be unpassable because of simple laziness. 

OK, I know I will irritate some by having said this, so I'll duck now......

Kristi

Quote from: Kristi on April 15, 2008, 06:59:33 PM
Kate, while I agree that trying too hard makes a girl just that much less passable, the truth is that, as Cindiana Jones likes to say, we need to practice the craft.  I'll be honest, I practice whenever I get the chance.  Sometimes I look at my makeup and just start all over.  I observe girls and try emulate what they do and how they do it.  I listen to good female readers and work on inflections of my voice.  And yes, I sometimes obsess about things way out of proportion.  Sometimes I make mistakes and cringe to see how I went out that day.  I'm my own worst enemy.  It's all part of growing up.  But as time goes by I slowly build confidence.  And that's what makes a girl passable, more than anything else.  I cringe at how some go out, just not caring about how they present themselves.  That gives us all a bad name.  We don't all have to pass every time, and we probably never will.  But that is no excuse for not doing our best to put forward a positive image.  While I know I will never look like a supermodel, I don't want to be unpassable because of simple laziness. 

OK, I know I will irritate some by having said this, so I'll duck now......

Kristi

Don't duck, Kristi. You're absolutely right.

Hugs,

Nichole