Quote from: sarahc on April 20, 2019, 01:21:04 PM


Anyone else feel the same? That you don't click with most of the other trans women you meet in real life?

My advice is to get used to being the unicorn in the crowd because that's how you are going to end up. You will leave the crutches behind and develop some wonderful female friends and you will completely forget about this question. Cultivate the future that's ahead of you not the one you are leaving behind.

My mom would always say I'm "an old man stuck in a young man's body".

She had the man part wrong 😂

But yeah, I sometimes feel really out of place in a lot of queer and trans spaces. Some parts of my personality and world view are very much those of a flag saluting Eagle Scout and trans woman. I'm 22, take myself to (an accepting) church Sundays, and well... don't really associate much with counterculture or adventurous styles and presentations. 

I prefer the middle of nowhere - seeing the Milky Way above my head and hearing bobcats serenade the woods. My closest friends have been a mix of queer and not queer straight laced but nerdy women and non-binary who like cats, and that's not changing. There is a super basic flair to me and I'm addicted to Starbucks. Oh well.

My views on social issues are rather left leaning, since unfortunately acknowledging and accepting trans folks is still considered a far left thing at times :/. We kinda exist no matter what they think. In other areas I have a bit of a strong centrist streak.

Anyways, I really resonated with your post.

Whoa! I'm the original poster, and I haven't been here for a few days and this topic blew up after being quiet for a few days after I posted.

First of all, my apologies to those who misunderstood me...I meant no disrespect in any of my initial comments. On the contrary, I'm a little bit envious of those who are willing to express their true selves outwardly.

And I think using the term "alternative" was unfair and not specific enough in the context of what the original post was referencing. Specifically, it was referring to a majority of people at a couple of trans support groups I attended. Most of them had either styling choices (hair, clothing, makeup) or body art / piercings that clearly said they they had no interest in necessarily conforming with what society thought was right and wrong. And they were proud of their identities, and it came through in how they spoke.

It's just that...that attitude isn't me. I'm trans, and while I'm politically liberal, I'm more of a conformist when it comes to trying to fit in and find my place in the world. And so when I try to speak to people who aren't as conformist as I am, we just don't relate. That's really all I was saying. And I was lamenting the fact that at least at the two support groups I've been to, most of the participants have been non-conformist in their approach to life and I was really looking for people who shared more aspects of my personality.

Again, apologies for all the misunderstandings!

Sarah

I have removed some posts from an ex-member. My apologies.

Cindy
Forum Admin

The mainstream is transphobic, so pushes trans people,  into the "alternative". So one should expect "alternative" by default.  Meeting people who live in non traditional ways is what makes life interesting. The most radically actvist, communist, anti conformist trans person and I can always find common ground in that we both want trans acceptance. 

I would love to have some trans friends. Unfortunately I don't know any trans people in RL. I'm not sure what you meant when you said you couldn't "connect " with some trans people. I don't relate to some trans people but that wouldn't stop me from being friends with them. I " connect" with all trans people. Even FtM people. We are ALL trans which I think connects us all.

I don't think you meant any offense but "alternative lifestyle " was an unfortunate use of words. That can mean a lot of different lifestyles. Even living off the grid is considered an alternative lifestyle. My boyfriend and I are into BDSM which is also considered an alternative lifestyle. So according to your post you wouldn't want me as a friend either.

Quote from: Julia1996 on April 29, 2019, 09:34:26 AM
I would love to have some trans friends. Unfortunately I don't know any trans people in RL. (...)

I don't think you meant any offense but "alternative lifestyle " was an unfortunate use of words. That can mean a lot of different lifestyles. Even living off the grid is considered an alternative lifestyle. My boyfriend and I are into BDSM which is also considered an alternative lifestyle. So according to your post you wouldn't want me as a friend either.

You have me. I will move there <3

On a more serious note, I agree the choice of words was poor. She probably meant the preconceived idea people have of how a trans person lives their life. But only she can clarify.

Quote from: Aurorasky on April 29, 2019, 10:09:49 AM
You have me. I will move there <3

On a more serious note, I agree the choice of words was poor. She probably meant the preconceived idea people have of how a trans person lives their life. But only she can clarify.

She did clarify, just a few posts up, and I thought she stated it very well. Here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=245930.msg2247343#msg2247343

Everybody who has issues with my choices on how I want to live my life, considers me to be an alternative lifestyle.

However, I think that I am quite comfortable with myself right now. To be sure, I do have a few conservative leanings, such as the environment and fiscal matters, but I am very much a social progressive in that we all need to respect and take care of others as best we can.

For those of us who are into flamboyant clothing, make up and party behavior, good for you, but you can leave me alone if that is the only thing you do.

Quote from: sarahc on April 26, 2019, 05:30:41 PM
Whoa! I'm the original poster, and I haven't been here for a few days and this topic blew up after being quiet for a few days after I posted.

First of all, my apologies to those who misunderstood me...I meant no disrespect in any of my initial comments. On the contrary, I'm a little bit envious of those who are willing to express their true selves outwardly.

And I think using the term "alternative" was unfair and not specific enough in the context of what the original post was referencing. Specifically, it was referring to a majority of people at a couple of trans support groups I attended. Most of them had either styling choices (hair, clothing, makeup) or body art / piercings that clearly said they they had no interest in necessarily conforming with what society thought was right and wrong. And they were proud of their identities, and it came through in how they spoke.

It's just that...that attitude isn't me. I'm trans, and while I'm politically liberal, I'm more of a conformist when it comes to trying to fit in and find my place in the world. And so when I try to speak to people who aren't as conformist as I am, we just don't relate. That's really all I was saying. And I was lamenting the fact that at least at the two support groups I've been to, most of the participants have been non-conformist in their approach to life and I was really looking for people who shared more aspects of my personality.

Again, apologies for all the misunderstandings!

Sarah

Very well explained

My only ties that are left with the trans community are online. I love how I can give trans people who are still early in their journey advice but overall, I feel there is too much tension in the trans community for me to want to be around other trans people in day to day life. I just prefer living my life and not having my friendships,.... dominated by this 1 aspect of me. I consider myself a woman in the social-cultural sense. Only in the medical sense I feel it's mandatory to come out to doctors and such. But for the rest, I don't hide it but I don't flash it either.


In the early beginning of my transition, 4 years ago, I went to transgender meetings and I honestly felt so at unease there. Some hated me for being heterosexual, others hated me for passing. I honestly have never felt more judged than by other trans people. And in that moment I told myself to stay away from meetings. It caused me stress and anxiety.


Now I love connecting online with people who have been through the same I have gone through.
I don't see it differently from a woman who has had breast cancer, is now healed and still writes on breast cancer support forums.
I have been through transition but I don't feel it has to dominate my lifestyle nowadays.

Luv,
Debby

There are trans people who want to fit in with society, blend in and disappear as it were, and not stand out. Either to live as regularly as possible, or to go completely stealth and never be known to have been trans in the first place.

And there are people out there who want to deconstruct society itself, remove gender and gender roles, to create new genders and claim that science needs to add trans as a third category of biological sex, and god knows what else.

In my observation there is a distinct ideology associated with the latter example, who tend to assume that all trans people ought to follow their example, as well as ought to vote for progressive parties and espouse progressive ideas. Their mistake is assuming every trans person is the same, or that we inhabit a Borg-like hive mind. Most trans people I know a) do not want to be trans b) want the condition to go away which is why they transition and c) want a quiet life. That usually means identifying what you are closest to being and then being it. That usually means once done, you simply go back to living a hopefully improved version of your life.

On average most people are not excessively "alternative" - we can see this every time we look at people as they walk down the street or go about their business. But the "alternative" folks are more vocal and do stand out more by definition. They tend to be the activists, the group founders, and the people running trans organizations. It stands to reason you see less traditional leaning trans individuals as they are most likely to have completed their journey and dropped off the radar.     

Quote from: Kylo on May 06, 2019, 10:28:59 AM
There are trans people who want to fit in with society, blend in and disappear as it were, and not stand out. Either to live as regularly as possible, or to go completely stealth and never be known to have been trans in the first place.

And there are people out there who want to deconstruct society itself, remove gender and gender roles, to create new genders and claim that science needs to add trans as a third category of biological sex, and god knows what else.

In my observation there is a distinct ideology associated with the latter example, who tend to assume that all trans people ought to follow their example, as well as ought to vote for progressive parties and espouse progressive ideas. Their mistake is assuming every trans person is the same, or that we inhabit a Borg-like hive mind. Most trans people I know a) do not want to be trans b) want the condition to go away which is why they transition and c) want a quiet life. That usually means identifying what you are closest to being and then being it. That usually means once done, you simply go back to living a hopefully improved version of your life.

On average most people are not excessively "alternative" - we can see this every time we look at people as they walk down the street or go about their business. But the "alternative" folks are more vocal and do stand out more by definition. They tend to be the activists, the group founders, and the people running trans organizations. It stands to reason you see less traditional leaning trans individuals as they are most likely to have completed their journey and dropped off the radar.   

I relate to this a lot.
I prefer not to draw attention to myself when not needed. Being with other trans people means there is a higher probability that I will also be clocked if they get clocked.

I also don't feel obligated to vote for liberal parties because I'm trans. I am a conservative and don't feel that that clashes with my trans identity. That may be because I'm heterosexual though.


Luv,
Debby

Quote from: sarahc on April 26, 2019, 05:30:41 PM
Whoa! I'm the original poster, and I haven't been here for a few days and this topic blew up after being quiet for a few days after I posted.

First of all, my apologies to those who misunderstood me...I meant no disrespect in any of my initial comments. On the contrary, I'm a little bit envious of those who are willing to express their true selves outwardly.

And I think using the term "alternative" was unfair and not specific enough in the context of what the original post was referencing. Specifically, it was referring to a majority of people at a couple of trans support groups I attended. Most of them had either styling choices (hair, clothing, makeup) or body art / piercings that clearly said they they had no interest in necessarily conforming with what society thought was right and wrong. And they were proud of their identities, and it came through in how they spoke.

It's just that...that attitude isn't me. I'm trans, and while I'm politically liberal, I'm more of a conformist when it comes to trying to fit in and find my place in the world. And so when I try to speak to people who aren't as conformist as I am, we just don't relate. That's really all I was saying. And I was lamenting the fact that at least at the two support groups I've been to, most of the participants have been non-conformist in their approach to life and I was really looking for people who shared more aspects of my personality.

Again, apologies for all the misunderstandings!

Sarah

No worries, I had a gist of where you were coming from. 

I respect those that can wear their heart on their sleeves, be the one on the parade float rocking teal hair and sparkles everywhere with a trans flag.
I prefer to be the one sitting at the pizza place in mom jeans and a blouse giving a thumbs up as she passes by.
We'd have one thing in common but regardless of that, would doubtfully suggest we could be best friends beyond acquaintances. And I don't think that's a bad thing as long as we all give each other mutual respect 

Quote from: Aurorasky on April 29, 2019, 10:09:49 AM
You have me. I will move there <3

On a more serious note, I agree the choice of words was poor. She probably meant the preconceived idea people have of how a trans person lives their life. But only she can clarify.

Yes I do. I would love to meet you in person. I would also set you up with Tyler. He really needs a GF who isn't as dumb as a sack of hair, crazy or a total bitch.

I know exactly what OP means after clearing it up. I don't get to see many trans people, but I do volunteer in a LGBT organization. I know very few fellow trans guys and I mostly have other LGB friends rather than trans. In my university I am stealth, so... I have it all. But I'm not really proud to be trans and I always introduce myself as a plain gay man, the fact that I'm Russian is enough to make convo. I only tell other LGBT people I'm trans and to help them, because I happen to be rather passing, thankfully.

Quote from: graspthesanity on May 23, 2019, 07:05:59 AMBut I'm not really proud to be trans and I always introduce myself as a plain gay man, the fact that I'm Russian is enough to make convo. I only tell other LGBT people I'm trans and to help them, because I happen to be rather passing, thankfully.

"Proud" is not a word I use to describe my being trans. I'm simply addressing a medical issue. Others disagree, and a few have belittled me for not being "out and proud," but it's my life and I want to live it quietly. Sitting in the pizza place giving the thumbs up to those who choose to be open about it, as ZeFoxe wrote, describes me, though while I do wear my mom jeans occasionally, I generally prefer getting dressed up. [emoji6]


Stephanie

Quote from: steph2.0 on May 23, 2019, 08:25:30 AM
"Proud" is not a word I use to describe my being trans.

Yes, it is an odd word.  It is used in this context to signify "not ashamed", but the meaning goes too far in the opposite direction.  It is not like being trans is an accomplishment that I am proud of.  (Though transitioning is. )

When I say I am "out and proud", I really mean that I am out and not ashamed.

Quote from: KathyLauren on May 23, 2019, 09:03:43 AM
Yes, it is an odd word.  It is used in this context to signify "not ashamed", but the meaning goes too far in the opposite direction.  It is not like being trans is an accomplishment that I am proud of.  (Though transitioning is. )

When I say I am "out and proud", I really mean that I am out and not ashamed.

I like your explanation. Thank you!


- Stephanie

Quote from: KathyLauren on May 23, 2019, 09:03:43 AM
Yes, it is an odd word.  It is used in this context to signify "not ashamed", but the meaning goes too far in the opposite direction.  It is not like being trans is an accomplishment that I am proud of.  (Though transitioning is. )

When I say I am "out and proud", I really mean that I am out and not ashamed.

I an buy into the not ashamed!  I am not ashamed to have two arms either.  I don't even know if I am proud that I did transition, it was just something naturally to do for me.

In my eyes I am a woman, and it is nobodies business to know, what I had to do, or how I arrived at this.