Quote from: Dietlind on May 08, 2019, 01:33:32 AM
Thanks Laurie
As I said, my doc does not know anything about hormones, specifically not with trans people.  He trusts me to handle this right, and gather all information I can get.  He looked into the Merk Register and that is what he found!

Do you feel that this stuff is so critical that I should stopp it immediately, or can I use the 90 days supply up, and switch thereafter to a micronized version?
To be honest, I am pretty excited that I finally could put my paws onto progesterone, because my endo does not believe in any benefits, not even the studies convinced him.  I am stuck pretty much in the non mans land of endos, and have o go with what I can get.

Again, if anybody feels I should stop the stuff immediately, I will do so!

Hey Linde

90 days on the medroxyprogesterone won't kill you, but it also probably won't help much either. It's also 90 days you won't be taking the bioidentical progesterone. 
That the two are prescribed for the same thing might set off a flag for insurance coverage,  but being different drugs probably not.  If it is denied you should be able to get around it by claiming adverse reaction to the medroxyprogesterone.

Its YMMV of course, but it did not work out for me and I don't recall anyone telling me good things about medroxyprogesterone when I asked around here after I started taking it.

Was a time when Premarin and Provera were the only thing available so that what trans women (and quite a few post menopausal women) took.  There's better stuff now, the work better  and fewer side effects.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Jess

I am delighted to read from your own thread that you are now seeing areolae increase.


Jess/Kirsten/Linde

It will be interesting to compare our first Blood Test readings for Progesterone in due course. Don't worry I have already checked that the method of conversion from US to Intl and vice versa which is precisely the same as that for Estradiol!

Hugs

Pamela 

Quote from: pamelatransuk on May 08, 2019, 07:41:40 AM
Jess

I am delighted to read from your own thread that you are now seeing areolae increase.


Jess/Kirsten/Linde

It will be interesting to compare our first Blood Test readings for Progesterone in due course. Don't worry I have already checked that the method of conversion from US to Intl and vice versa which is precisely the same as that for Estradiol!

Hugs

Pamela

My next blood test is planned for October.  That would be about one year on estrogen for me.

Thank you for this thread. Me and my girlfriend are going to see our endo tomorrow and we'll bring a printed copy of the study. We hope it will works so we have it prescribed. [emoji4]

Both of these comments need to be seen again they should clear up any misunderstandings.

Quote from: Laurie on May 08, 2019, 12:34:33 AM
  I get very concerned when I read here of sisters being proscribed medroxyprogesterone. Medroxyprogesterone is a PROGESTIN ie it is synthetic progesterone NOT bio-identical micronized progesterone. Many of doctors objections and fears come from a study of 2 hormones in menopausable women that showed a significant increase in DVT (blood clots) and possibly strokes/heart attacks. These two hormones that given together in the study (Premarin (an equine derived estrogen)) and (Provera (medroxyprogesterone))  is what caused the doctor's fear of blood clots if they proscribed it to us. Not only is the an old study that does NOT apply to the use of bio_identical estradiol or bio-identical progesterone (Prometrium), it lists several health problems that do not apply to the bio-identical hormones we are discussing here. If you read the paper it lists 6 possible benefits micronized progesterone could have for transgender women.
  Doctors should not be prescribing premarin or provera for us. Both are the cause of their fears. Always insist on the bio-identical hormones.

QuoteIn the paper at the beginning of this thread micronized bio-identical Progesterone is suggested.
"Progesterone" refers to the hormone produced in the body, or produced from a plant source but still chemically and structurally identical to human progesterone, and it is therefore referred to as "bioidentical" or "natural".
In contrast, "progestin" refers to a hormone that is synthetically produced and differs in structure from progesterone.

When discussing progesterone, it is important to understand the difference between natural progesterone and the synthetic progesterone analogs called progestins. One of the most common progestins, medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera®), has been linked to blood clots, fluid retention, acne, rashes, weight gain, and depression.

FWIW, this is included in a trans care guide, from the Sherbourne Health clinic in Toronto.

QuoteProgestins

With the exception of cyproterone, the use of progestins in  trans  women  continues  to  be  controversial.  There  has  not  been  a  clear  feminizing  benefit  shown  with  the use   of   progestins, although   some   individuals   and some  clinicians  feel  it  has  been  a  useful  adjunctive medication.  Progestins have a suppressive effect on LH, thus decreasing androgen production.  It is used by some clinicians  for  clients  experiencing  decreased  libido  and  may have a positive or negative impact on mood.  The common side effects associated with progestins are weight gain, depression, and edema.  The Women's Health
Initiative has examined serious long-term outcomes with combined  estrogen  and  progestin  in  post-menopausal  women.  The 2007 updates support the original findings, which   were   increased   incidence   of   breast   cancer, increased  strokes  and  blood  clots,  and  increased  heart disease.  These  same  outcomes  were  not  found  to  the same  extent  with  estrogen  alone.  These  risks  may  be higher  with edroxyprogesterone  than  with  micronized progesterone.  In   addition,   the   latter   may   be   better   
tolerated and have a more favourable impact on the lipid profile than medroxyprogesterone.

If used, the common doses of progestins are micronized progesterone xxx-yyy mg daily; or medroxyprogesterone acetate  xxx-yyy mg  daily.  Some  clinicians  advise  limiting progestin   treatment   duration   to   a   maximum   of   two to  three  years  Because  it  is  not  part  of  our  regular 
protocol, if a progestin is being considered, some of our clinicians  will  have  the  client  sign  an  additional  consent form  acknowledging  that  they  specifically  understand the  increased  risks  and  lack  of  established  benefit.

Quote from: pamelatransuk on May 08, 2019, 07:41:40 AM
Jess

I am delighted to read from your own thread that you are now seeing areolae increase.


Jess/Kirsten/Linde

It will be interesting to compare our first Blood Test readings for Progesterone in due course. Don't worry I have already checked that the method of conversion from US to Intl and vice versa which is precisely the same as that for Estradiol!

Hugs

Pamela

Yes P readings would be an interesting comparison Pamela. Also method of administration vs levels could be interesting as well.

Kind regards,  Kirsten.

Quote from: AnneK on May 08, 2019, 11:20:20 AM
FWIW, this is included in a trans care guide, from the Sherbourne Health clinic in Toronto.

Hi AnneK,

Since the report came out in 2015, I wonder if their thinking on this has changed.

Take care,
Paige 😊

Quote from: Paige on May 09, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
Since the report came out in 2015, I wonder if their thinking on this has changed.

Well, it's still on their website, so I assume they still stand by it.

Quote from: AnneK on May 09, 2019, 02:14:21 PM
Well, it's still on their website, so I assume they still stand by it.

Probably, but they've been swamped with demand for services for sometime now, so maybe they haven't had the time to update it.   I wonder if they may be more accepting of micronized progesterone therapy now. In 2015 it was still a pretty new idea to most medical professionals.  You wouldn't find many endocrinologists prescribing it.

Quote from: Paige on May 09, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
Hi AnneK,

Since the report came out in 2015, I wonder if their thinking on this has changed.

Take care,
Paige 😊

The evidence for progestins not having any effect in transwomen is low quality and sparse so we really don't know. This has been confirmed by researchers in a recent paper. At this point, the lack of any strong evidence in either direction prevents us from drawing any conclusions at all.

Secondly, the risks found with progestins such as medroxyprogesterone acetate cannot be extrapolated to progesterone, a different molecule. So far, studies have not found the same risks associated with progesterone, the naturally occurring substance in humans. 

I'm not certain if this change is due to progesterone, but shortly after starting it, I noticed that my breasts radiated a lot of heat.  My wife says I have hot hands and when I cup them, I feel the fire from my boobs. 
Any other ladies experience this?

I n't feel any definitive effect from progesterone, but I can't put my hands on any clear effect from estrogen either.  Nothing has really changed for me from either hormone!
My boobs don't grow any faster than they used to prior to HRT, and that would be the only parameter i can measure, because body hair that is not there can't go away.

Quote from: Jessica on May 18, 2019, 10:24:01 PM
I'm not certain if this change is due to progesterone, but shortly after starting it, I noticed that my breasts radiated a lot of heat.  My wife says I have hot hands and when I cup them, I feel the fire from my boobs. 
Any other ladies experience this?

Hi Jessica,
                    I wonder if you have noticed any change in the veins in your breasts. ie increased circulation/ increased heat.

I personally noticed a development of veins when I was on an E and AA only. As I grew to B cup there was extra heat as well.

With regards to progesterone I think I see what looks like water retention all over including breasts, but no heat or extra development after a month of P.

I believe you have had some significant growth on P, I hope to experience the same.

Kind regards, Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

@Kirsteneklund7

Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on May 19, 2019, 02:49:58 AM
Hi Jessica,
                    I wonder if you have noticed any change in the veins in your breasts. ie increased circulation/ increased heat.

I personally noticed a development of veins when I was on an E and AA only. As I grew to B cup there was extra heat as well.

With regards to progesterone I think I see what looks like water retention all over including breasts, but no heat or extra development after a month of P.

I believe you have had some significant growth on P, I hope to experience the same.

Kind regards, Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Kirsten, I am fairly sure that new vessels were developed since starting P and that increased blood flow certainly would make Lucy and Rhonda warmer.  I have been lucky in that E did wonders for them also.  Still thanking mom for her genes.

Hot hugs, Jess

Quote from: Jessica on May 19, 2019, 09:06:11 AM
  I have been lucky in that E did wonders for them also.  Still thanking mom for her genes.

Hot hugs, Jess

You are so lucky.  Here I sit with the my B cups forever (it feels like it), and neither cutting my balls off, nor all the estrogen and progesterone seem to make any difference.  They seem to want to remain B's!

Quote from: Linde on May 19, 2019, 11:24:11 AM
You are so lucky.  Here I sit with the my B cups forever (it feels like it), and neither cutting my balls off, nor all the estrogen and progesterone seem to make any difference.  They seem to want to remain B's!

Linde,

Sometimes I think about what breast size and if it matters a lot or not, at least after you finally have noticeable breasts.  In the end, it is a personal preference.  No matter what the size of our breasts are, we are still are women, many whom are thoughtful and feminine in thinking and to differing degrees in appearance. 

I sometimes wonder if my occasional thought of having larger breasts is really manifested from a desire to be warmly accepted as a woman by all, as by having breasts, well, that is part of being a woman, why should not I be accepted by all?   But in the end, that is faulty, incomplete thinking.  Acceptance is about much more than that.  And some acceptance may never occur, it is beyond our control.

But breasts are part of being a woman, and I like mine, they are affirming. It is nice to have a more feminine body over time, that makes me feel so good. I ask myself why I was not born with the right body actually much more often than would it be nice than if I had bigger breasts.  If I was born with the right body then nature would have given me the body I should have developed naturally and I would have had the opportunity to fit in naturally in society all my life.  I am a misfit of sorts now! 

If I ever grow beyond Bs that will be interesting for sure but I try to simply be grateful with what I have, and take each day as it comes.  I do admit that I have tried to make my breasts look bigger and sometimes the look is appealing in some outfits.  But as they now are, they are noticeable.  So I am thankful for that.

Have a wonderful day.

Hugs,

Chrissy

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on May 19, 2019, 02:52:19 PM
Linde,

Sometimes I think about what breast size and if it matters a lot or not, at least after you finally have noticeable breasts.  In the end, it is a personal preference.  No matter what the size of our breasts are, we are still are women, many whom are thoughtful and feminine in thinking and to differing degrees in appearance. 

I sometimes wonder if my occasional thought of having larger breasts is really manifested from a desire to be warmly accepted as a woman by all, as by having breasts, well, that is part of being a woman, why should not I be accepted by all?   But in the end, that is faulty, incomplete thinking.  Acceptance is about much more than that.  And some acceptance may never occur, it is beyond our control.

But breasts are part of being a woman, and I like mine, they are affirming. It is nice to have a more feminine body over time, that makes me feel so good. I ask myself why I was not born with the right body actually much more often than would it be nice than if I had bigger breasts.  If I was born with the right body then nature would have given me the body I should have developed naturally and I would have had the opportunity to fit in naturally in society all my life.  I am a misfit of sorts now! 

If I ever grow beyond Bs that will be interesting for sure but I try to simply be grateful with what I have, and take each day as it comes.  I do admit that I have tried to make my breasts look bigger and sometimes the look is appealing in some outfits.  But as they now are, they are noticeable.  So I am thankful for that.

Have a wonderful day.

Hugs,

Chrissy

Well Chrissy, I was partially born with the right body that was made wrong surgically, but kind of stayed very female like.  And my breasts were kind of a B already long before I started, or even know about HRT.  I was hoping that starting HRT would give those babies a little boost (my mother and my sister were at least a D), and make a C out of them.  That seems not to work that way, even not after the orchi.  My boobs are the only parameter I have to measure the effect of estrogen on my body (because I had no secondary male sex characteristics), and those girls did not grow any faster than they did prior to HRT.
I am accepted in my environment, and I have the feeling that most of my friends forget that I am not a cis woman, because I have to remind them once in a while that my body functions a little different than theirs, but that is it.
Yes, I feel OK with my B sized breasts, because they are mine, all home grown, but I would not mind to have C cups, because some clothing looks, as you said, simply better with a little more fill in the front.

I will see how it goes, I never ever even dream about of any implants that is simply not me!

I wish you good luck for a growth spurt of your girls, and stand by to hope for mine!
Hugs
Linde

OK, here I am on progesterone for a little while now.  I really see no influence on my boobs, I don't sleep any better than I did without it.  The only thing I think that has improved, is my level of energy.  I was pretty lethargy (some would call it lazy) for the last couple of months, and now I feel like doing things again (like working in the yard, etc.)  Could this be the result of progesterone?  Or is it because I emerge from some kind of depression that made me lethargic?  I hope very much that progesterone is doing this?

What do you ladies think?

@Linde

Quote from: Linde on May 19, 2019, 03:14:27 PM
OK, here I am on progesterone for a little while now.  I really see no influence on my boobs, I don't sleep any better than I did without it.  The only thing I think that has improved, is my level of energy.  I was pretty lethargy (some would call it lazy) for the last couple of months, and now I feel like doing things again (like working in the yard, etc.)  Could this be the result of progesterone?  Or is it because I emerge from some kind of depression that made me lethargic?  I hope very much that progesterone is doing this?

What do you ladies think?

Linde, are you taking medroxyprogesterone or had you been able to switch to bio-identical Progesterone.  If you are still taking medroxyprogesterone, your experiences have no real correlation to the experiences of those on the bio-identical Progesterone. 
If this is the case, please make it clear to your doctor that prescribed medroxyprogesterone, with evidence herein that you need bio-identical progesterone instead.