Quote from: HappyMoni on May 26, 2019, 10:42:05 PM
Logically speaking, who is more likely to understand the phenomenon of being trans? On one hand you have a group that has a stake in the keeping a narrative consistent with the morals of a society 2000 years ago. On the other, you have scientists who believe in the scientific method of collecting data and the experts, us, who have known first hand what being trans is all about. You also have  your first hand experience telling you what you know in your head is true. The good news is that there are very cool Christians out there who have emphasized the real message of Jesus and de-emphasized the dogma. I'm not expert on Jesus, but my understanding was he was way more inclusionary than a great many of his followers.

I am both transgender and Christian.  Both of these parts of my life are equally important to me.  They both play a big part in who I am as a person.  It's true that there are believers who have oppressed people.  On the other hand, not all believers are out to persecute someone.  The truth is that there are no perfect Christians just as there are no perfect people.

Danielle

And I identified as straight.  I've always been attracted to women.  I never really saw myself with a man.  Sure, I had a few kinky fantasies, but that's all they were - fantasies.  I've fantasized about a lot of non-sexual things that I'd never do in real life.  Now that I recognize myself as a transgender woman, I guess I'm not straight after all - I'm a lesbian.

Danielle

Oddly enough  I was bi with lesbian leanings before and now I'm strictly lesbian. So I spose I became more 'gay' in the whole process.

My view is that gender is the foundation on which sexuality is built.
I lived decades not knowing my gender, so didn't really have a sexuality.

Despite having been married to a woman while still living as my assigned gender (male), the label of heterosexual didn't really mean much to me, I just met those criteria at that time.

Part of my gender transition has been the realisation that I actually identify as pansexual. As a transwoman in a wonderful relationship with another non-binary transwoman I don't even have a label for what our relationship is, neither of us feels that lesbian is the right term for us personally.

What i am is "happy", the rest is labels and really doesn't matter to me :-)

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Quote from: Danielle Kristina on May 26, 2019, 10:59:25 PM
I am both transgender and Christian.  Both of these parts of my life are equally important to me.  They both play a big part in who I am as a person.  It's true that there are believers who have oppressed people.  On the other hand, not all believers are out to persecute someone.  The truth is that there are no perfect Christians just as there are no perfect people.

Danielle

You're right. No one is perfect. No one is without sin. In all of the churches I went to growing up and in adulthood that is the one thing the majority of church goers seemed to forget. The prevailing attitude was "I'm saved and no longer a sinner. Therefore, it is my duty, according to the bible, to let other church goers know they are in sin." For me, something Paul said always stood out to me. What is a sin for one, may not be a sin for another. I read that and spent sometime meditating on it. In the end I resolved my internal conflicts with what I was taught and what I felt by realizing that God created me and loves me for who I am.

Another verse that I hear used a lot to dispute the transgender issue was "men should not look women and women should not look like men" So, if that's the case, I better change the way I look because I have always known inside, that I am  woman.

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Hi

You have to give this friends and family some credit because in their minds they are just looking out for you.

They are afraid that you might make a mistake.

I have been through the whole Jesus can cure you thing also and I am dealing with that again with my ex.
It doesn't take away dysphoria. It never did for me.

I was very female from young in looks and behavior. I liked boys. I can't say that the one came before the other. I can't say that me liking guys made me want to be a woman. Damn I tricked my cousin into playing dress up with her clothes from the age of 6. My aunt allowed me to live as a girl there when I go and visit and even took me too the shops like that.

I made the mistake of getting involved with a woman and having a child and my child is a blessing but my ex is horrible.

She actually admitted that it was my feminine traits that attracted her.

A lot of people asked me are you sure you are not just a feminine gay guy. My answer is no I am not. Gay guys just wanted to get into my pants. I had a couple that invited me to sleep with them to explore if I am not just gay. If I was gay. I would have been with a gay guy and me being a born male wouldn't have bothered me at all and made my life a living hell.

So my tip is see a psychologist to get a proper diagnoses. This helped me a lot.

Quote from: Melinda@heart on May 27, 2019, 07:31:53 AM
You're right. No one is perfect. No one is without sin. In all of the churches I went to growing up and in adulthood that is the one thing the majority of church goers seemed to forget. The prevailing attitude was "I'm saved and no longer a sinner. Therefore, it is my duty, according to the bible, to let other church goers know they are in sin." For me, something Paul said always stood out to me. What is a sin for one, may not be a sin for another. I read that and spent sometime meditating on it. In the end I resolved my internal conflicts with what I was taught and what I felt by realizing that God created me and loves me for who I am.

Another verse that I hear used a lot to dispute the transgender issue was "men should not look women and women should not look like men" So, if that's the case, I better change the way I look because I have always known inside, that I am  woman.

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My very favorite niece is a Methodist pastor, and one of my greatest supporters.  We talked about this, and she told me that God does not made mistakes, and God made me!  And therefore I can't be a mistake but am a part of God's plan!
Who are the people who doubt that God made a mistake by creating me? What do they know about the plans of God?

I wish you all god luck for your acceptance of the people you are around you!  I know that I am part of the master plan of God, and can care less what other people feel about me!
Love
Linde

Quote from: Amoré on May 27, 2019, 08:46:30 AM
Hi

You have to give this friends and family some credit because in their minds they are just looking out for you.

They are afraid that you might make a mistake.

I have been through the whole Jesus can cure you thing also and I am dealing with that again with my ex.
It doesn't take away dysphoria. It never did for me.

I was very female from young in looks and behavior. I liked boys. I can't say that the one came before the other. I can't say that me liking guys made me want to be a woman. Damn I tricked my cousin into playing dress up with her clothes from the age of 6. My aunt allowed me to live as a girl there when I go and visit and even took me too the shops like that.

I made the mistake of getting involved with a woman and having a child and my child is a blessing but my ex is horrible.

She actually admitted that it was my feminine traits that attracted her.

A lot of people asked me are you sure you are not just a feminine gay guy. My answer is no I am not. Gay guys just wanted to get into my pants. I had a couple that invited me to sleep with them to explore if I am not just gay. If I was gay. I would have been with a gay guy and me being a born male wouldn't have bothered me at all and made my life a living hell.

So my tip is see a psychologist to get a proper diagnoses. This helped me a lot.

Thank you. This is what I wish people would understand. Gay guys are cisgender men who are attracted to men. Although I personally never found men attractive, a transgender woman who finds men attractive does not see herself a guy who is attracted to men. We all want to live as who we are regardless of who we are attracted to. You didn't want to live as a gay man because you are not a man. Just as I do not want to live as a straight man, because I am not a man. The gay or straight is irrelevant, it's the fact that we need to live as who we are.

Quote from: Megan. on May 27, 2019, 01:03:52 AM
My view is that gender is the foundation on which sexuality is built.
I lived decades not knowing my gender, so didn't really have a sexuality.

What i am is "happy", the rest is labels and really doesn't matter to me :-)

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@Megan

Wow Megan, I read your first sentence and a light bulb went off in my head! That makes so much sense to my life! I don't know if this is a universal truth, but it sure is true for me. Many thanks!
Moni

Quote from: Danielle Kristina on May 26, 2019, 10:59:25 PM
I am both transgender and Christian.  Both of these parts of my life are equally important to me.  They both play a big part in who I am as a person.  It's true that there are believers who have oppressed people.  On the other hand, not all believers are out to persecute someone.  The truth is that there are no perfect Christians just as there are no perfect people.

Danielle

Danielle, don't get me wrong, I might have sounded a bit harsh in my comment but I do respect people of faith generally. I draw the line in my respect when people use religion to hurt others or create laws to take people's rights away. Everyone makes mistakes, but I lose patience when someone continually harms others in the name of a religion.

Quote from: BlueJaye on May 27, 2019, 09:46:22 AM
Thank you. This is what I wish people would understand. Gay guys are cisgender men who are attracted to men. Although I personally never found men attractive, a transgender woman who finds men attractive does not see herself a guy who is attracted to men. We all want to live as who we are regardless of who we are attracted to. You didn't want to live as a gay man because you are not a man. Just as I do not want to live as a straight man, because I am not a man. The gay or straight is irrelevant, it's the fact that we need to live as who we are.

We as transgender people have to accept also that some people won't ever accept us for who we are. I learned one important lesson. You can't bash people into accepting you it comes out of their own choice. If they don't let them be. Sometimes they do come around.

When I started my transition people was very confused by what I am because even before hormones I passed. So they forced me to dress super male to make everyone more comfortable. I then was told okay you are confusing the crap out of people so come to work female dressed but use the males bathroom so I did without arguing. I did it out of respect for everyone and woman. A month in they held a secret meeting and everyone voted without me asking for it to move me to the female bathroom. They stated that I am female out of their own except for one guy that was really nasty to me. I let him be and carried myself in a professional manner.

3 months later he came to me with a box of chocolates and gave me a hug and said he is sorry for how he treated me I earned his respect. He respects me as a woman because I carried myself like a woman I give off female vibes. Even though he misgendered me all the time before that. He corrected it out of his own.

He explained that he was scared that I would force him to be attracted to me. I told him nope you don't have to stress I accept that not all men are into trans woman. I respect them for their preference.

Quote from: Amoré on May 27, 2019, 10:29:41 AM
We as transgender people have to accept also that some people won't ever accept us for who we are. I learned one important lesson. You can't bash people into accepting you it comes out of their own choice. If they don't let them be. Sometimes they do come around.

When I started my transition people was very confused by what I am because even before hormones I passed. So they forced me to dress super male to make everyone more comfortable. I then was told okay you are confusing the crap out of people so come to work female dressed but use the males bathroom so I did without arguing. I did it out of respect for everyone and woman. A month in they held a secret meeting and everyone voted without me asking for it to move me to the female bathroom. They stated that I am female out of their own except for one guy that was really nasty to me. I let him be and carried myself in a professional manner.

3 months later he came to me with a box of chocolates and gave me a hug and said he is sorry for how he treated me I earned his respect. He respects me as a woman because I carried myself like a woman I give off female vibes. Even though he misgendered me all the time before that. He corrected it out of his own.

He explained that he was scared that I would force him to be attracted to me. I told him nope you don't have to stress I accept that not all men are into trans woman. I respect them for their preference.

That's a very nice story. I wish all people could be as objective as the chocolate box guy.

Quote from: HappyMoni on May 27, 2019, 10:17:43 AM
Danielle, don't get me wrong, I might have sounded a bit harsh in my comment but I do respect people of faith generally. I draw the line in my respect when people use religion to hurt others or create laws to take people's rights away. Everyone makes mistakes, but I lose patience when someone continually harms others in the name of a religion.

Moni, you're fine!  And I agree that many Christians misinterpret the Bible, sometimes because they are grossly misinformed and sometimes for satisfaction of personal agendas.  The Bible even warns of "wolves in sheep's clothing."  Just because a church, a person, or even an entire group of people claim to be Christians and quote Scripture does not mean that they are true believers.  Unfortunately, the evils of a few ruin the reputations of many.  The same argument is made in defense of Muslims, as people argue that the radical Islamic terrorist cells are only a fraction of the religion.  The radicals just get the majority of the attention.  Christianity itself does not condone oppression or persecution of anyone.  People choose to do those things themselves.

Danielle

I didn't identify as anything. I knew I had a bisexual nature, but sexual nature in general was curtailed by the trans condition. There was no point identifying and seeking.

When I ended up in a relationship with a man, it was assumed to be a straight relationship. Now I'm assumed to be gay, although I myself haven't changed at all. My bisexual nature remains unchanged. I realized that categories like this were for more useful for others than they ever were for me.

Quote from: Melinda@heart on May 26, 2019, 09:17:01 PM
I struggled all of my life with Who am I" or "What am I?" My first memory of wearing womens clothes was when I was three. Then again around age 10. I liked to feel pretty. I wished I was a girl. I never told my parents because I knew it would be considered "demonic" influence or possession.

I was severely depressed and even attempted suicide in my teen years. The depression stuck with me throughout my life. Just before my 45th birthday, I decided to start HRT. After a few weeks on estrogen, I felt "right" for the first time in my life. My mind was free of something. I was happy. The depression lessened a great deal. The longer I was on HRT, the better I felt.

It's been 1 year now. I'm so happy with the way I feel that I will not stop taking my meds. Not once did I ever think I was gay. I was never attracted to men. I was always very much interested in women. Christian's dont seem to understand us or want to try. They see us as a perversion, going against God's word. They often use "he created them man and woman" to justify their hatred for us. In my journey over the past year, my views have changed significantly from how I was raised.  There is ONE judge. I believe I will stand before him and be accepted for who I have always known I am.

Being transgender doesn't mean you're homosexual. It has nothing to do with your sexual preference at all. I dont think Christian's as a whole will ever understand that. It saddens me greatly.

Mindy

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Hello again Mindy

I agree absolutely with your thoughts. I am a traditional Christian (as opposed to evangelical) and I have encountered the 3 problems to which you refer from evangelicals:

1. They don't like either gay people or trans people.
2. They are in the habit of regularly judging people negatively.
3. They do not understand that gender identity and sexual orientation are 2 separate subjects.

I had a similar childhood history to you in that I always wished to have been born a girl and told my grandmother aged 4 and all my adult life I crossdressed and bodyshaved and was depressed for decades.

However we are both on the right road now and I am thankful to God for that!

Hugs

Pamela  xx

Quote from: BlueJaye on May 26, 2019, 06:07:56 PM
At no point in my life have I ever identified as gay. Even as a transgender woman I would say I have become asexual.

Am I the only one who had no history of homosexuality prior to coming out? Not that I have anything against anyone who did identify as homosexual. It just seems to be the common blame assigned to gender dysphoria. If you have gender dysphoria it must mean you have some kind of homosexual tendencies or something.

Hello again BlueJaye

Thank you for starting this really interesting thread.

I am sure you knew anyway and this thread proves that so many of us have not had homosexual tendencies before transition and the hypothesis to which you refer is false. These people sadly do not understand that for most of us gender identity and sexual orientation are 2 separate subjects. I also have nothing against gay people.

Previously I was asexual with a minor attraction to women and now I realize I am and always have been asexual with minor lesbian tendencies. I have always preferred women for friendship only.

Hugs

Pamela  xx 

I considered myself cis hetero male. I did not realize until recently that the women I dated, and the first one I married, I wanted to BE. Needless to say, what I considered "Attraction" was envy and that cross wiring was hell to sort out. Glad I did get it sorted though.

Of all my friends and family, the only one to give me grief is my "Christian" baby sister. Christ at no point said "Love the sinner hate the sin". I do recall the book very few Christians read, let along practice, mentioning "Love thy Neighbor".

Recent studies show that Evangelicals Gen-x and older has a 25% acceptance of LGB and much less for trans. Younger members have about a 50% acceptance rate across the board. I believe what you experienced was not acceptance, or even nonchalance. As per your mention that multiple people are sending you 'you can be "Cured" by Jesus' videos, they see you as an opportunity to "heal" you and get some awesome publicity for their Church. If that dose not work, they can always kick you to the curb later at no cost because the god they worship hates you and thinks you are "broken"

Here is a story of a women who encountered evangelicals. While you may decide not to do something similar, knowing what The Book really says can give you strength. It's an epic read:
https://www.thelily.com/im-transgender-and-christian-heres-what-i-did-when-evangelicals-tried-to-pray-for-me/

Hugs,

Ricki

I was often told I was the 'f-word' by other kids, and I think they guessed something was off and so did I. I didnt think I was gay, but then as I got older I started to think 'I guess I am a lesbian in a boys body?'

how naive I was to say that and not know what a trans person was at the time...

Quote from: jaybutterfly on May 29, 2019, 01:32:26 PMas I got older I started to think 'I guess I am a lesbian in a boys body?'

how naive I was to say that and not know what a trans person was at the time...

I totally get that.  I thought exactly the same thing, and it didn't click with me either.  Can you say "denial"? 

I realised I am gay , mostly,   shortly before realising i'm trans male.
I thought before that i was a badly wired mostly hetero cis female .
As in,  i could't figure out why i was feeling out of place before, in myself , and why i felt  people were responding to me in ways that didn't feel right. I never could put.my finger on it.
But suddenly things just clicked quite fast after one another.
So i went from faux- straight to gay in a few  days time.