Quote from: Robbyv213 on August 12, 2025, 11:13:45 AM@Lori Dee yea I don't know honestly. She is a very strong and independent woman, and if she didn't lose everything in the house fire a year ago then she would have no issues getting by with out my help financially.

But we are a couple so we started living life based off of two incomes and so now if we were to separate neither of us could maintain where were at now.

But she def doesn't need a man to define her or to show to the world shes the woman in the relationship or anyone to rescue her.

That's the furthest thing I believe she is.

I feel she is still just very hurt about it all. She thought she was marring a man who wants to remain being a man. You know.

I do feel everything else about how others will react and see her is spot on. She always says she is worried her ex will try to take custody of their youngest who still lives with us. She's afraid her very religious parents will disown her. She's afraid she will end up alone fighting the world again, where she at least thought she had me to help her and be with her in this world.

But she is the toughest woman I know, she def doesn't need me and or any man to take care of her. Yes would it be nice to have a companion and someon to help out of course, but I know she is a survivor, but I think as anyone would become, is tired of just surviving. And so when I came out all of her dreams of the future for building and not surviving came crashing down.

That makes sense. My apologies. Losing everything in a fire is trauma enough for anyone. It makes sense that she feels another loss with this, too.

I understand the two-income family needs. My second wife and I both had good jobs, with full pay and benefits. When I became disabled, it took over a year fighting with Social Security in court to get my income started. We suffered a death in the family, and our finances took a big hit. She was the only provider, so the stress was insurmountable. Then she got sick and eventually passed away.

I have been in that situation where two incomes suddenly become one, then become none. It is scary and stressful. I feel for you both. I sincerely hope it all works out. It usually does, but not necessarily in the way we expect. Hang in there.

My wife definitely has had to deal with a lot this past year that's for sure.

So my I sense that my wife and I will be having a difficult conversation soon.

It's been a year and four months so far since she has found out/ I came out to her. I know people process things differently and each has their own process and time frame.

But each time we talk about it it's always the same old conversation to then Letter.

Always "It's I love you, I can't imagine life without, and I'll be your biggest supporter but I'm not a lesbian and I'm not attracted to women and I don't think I can be married to one, and my family would disown me and my ex would try to take custody of my child. Etc."

Right. And then she gets upset when I distance myself and put my walls up. I don't do it intentionally but it happens. On multiple times she's straight out said she can't be married to a woman. So am I wrong to connect the dots that our marriage is going to end sooner or later.

Like I get it. It's never easy or convenient. I get it that we both would be taking another hit financially. And if it's a I need time to save up and prepare them ok, at least we can both do that and prepare and know what the future has in store for our marriage.

Or even if it's a I don't know the answer to if I can be married to a woman yet, that's ok too, but then what are you doing to find the answer.... And again so far for a year and four months now she's done nothing to process her feelings and deal with this or find any of those answers for herself yet.

I'm all for waiting and taking it slow, but I'd like to know truthfully what she thinks and where she thinks our marriage is going to go realistically.

And I know even if we do end up separating and getting a divorce I know our relationship can still thrive as friends etc. And I'm ok with that as well. But like a few people have said to me at this point what and why are we holding onto this marriage for (other than it brings financial stability). It brings stress, anxiety, heartache,. depression. I feel I've seen it to start physically affecting us both.

Don't get me wrong though, we do have some happy times and even some great times, but they are few and far in-between everyday life.

She wants me to be proud and shout from the mountains that she's my wife and I'm hers, she wants me to celebrate our marriage and relationship, she expects truth, and transparency. But will she celebrate that her husband is a trans woman and is actively transitioning. Will she ignore it till she one day wakes up married to a woman?


I just sense this is all going to come to a point here in the very near future.

I think the stuff you have discussed here needs to be a part of your next discussion.

Where does she see the relationship going? Can she remain friends?

There is such a thing as an amicable divorce. Twice, I divorced my wives for "irreconcilable differences". Nobody has to be mean about it. You just sit down and draw up an agreement, called a Marital Settlement Agreement. It outlines each person's rights and responsibilities, how your assets will be divided up, who pays what bills, etc.

You don't need a lawyer. You can pick up the forms at the court recorder's office. The forms are usually free and come with instructions on how to fill them out. There will be a filing fee, and then you get a court date to appear before the judge. The judge asks some basic questions to make sure that you both agree to what is on the forms. She doesn't have to go to the hearing if she doesn't want to, but by not appearing, she is automatically agreeing to everything.

But the first step is to sit down and discuss where she sees it going. Can you two work together toward a mutual agreement? If she cannot stay married to you, what does she want? If there are children born of this marriage, the judge will want to look at who gets custody, visitation, and child support. If no children are involved, it is a simple "no-fault" divorce.

Discuss other alternatives as well, such as separating but remaining married. Getting into couples counseling to try to work out any sticking points.

She needs to know that you are moving forward, with or without her. I agree that she might need time to find work, a place to stay, transportation, or whatever. Just let her know that you are willing to help her if she is willing to work together.

I still hope you can work things out, but as the saying goes, "If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting." Change is not always a bad thing. 

No change it now always a bad thing. When a door closes a window opens.

Change can bring challenges, change can bring har times and even painful times, but usually prepares you for the good right on the other side.

Yea we have both been divorced before and we have no kids together. Basically we would be divided any debt we made since being married to one another and that's about it. Lol.

So I have to do some stuff with the DMV here pretty soon as my wranglers registration is up the end of this month and my charger is registration is up at the end of next month.

I'm tossing around the idea of updating my photo ID since I've grown my hair out some and I've lost some weight and my appearance is obviously changed from the last photo they have on file. I figure if I get a new picture that will help with traveling in the future and also potentially getting a passport photo done in the future as well as keeping photos relatively current as I transition there hopefully shouldn't be too many issues when it comes to traveling.

The main issue that I'm thinking about is if I should update my gender marker to x versus keeping it as a m. As affirming as it would be to update my gender marker here for Arizona I also feel that it's will bring future roadblocks and potential harassment and discrimination. Whereas keeping it as male people will just assume I'm a feminine looking guy and not think too much more into it.

Eventually I'd like to change all my documentation over but right now it doesn't really bother me and I definitely don't want to do anything that can cause discrimination and harassment any sooner than I need to deal with it if that makes sense. Granted there should not be anything like to sort for having x as my gender marker on my driver's license and real ID but you never know.

X markers are targeted more often than M or F, thanks to Trump. On a DL, it might not be as big a deal, but a passport is different. If you are okay with waiting, I would keep either M or F, but update the photo and such. Hopefully, by the time the DL is up for renewal again, different people will be living in the White House.

If things change more quickly, you can always apply for a new DL with name/gender change documents. You don't have to wait for renewal time.

Yea. I think it's prob best to just wait it out for now as my authentic self is loading (unfortunately it uses dial up Internet so it's prob going to take a little bit lol)

Quote from: Robbyv213 on Yesterday at 04:25:57 PMit uses dial up Internet so it's prob going to take a little bit lol

Drat those 300 baud modems! (I remember them well.) 
 

Sometimes I wonder how many people's lives I touched (in good and bad ways) by not allowing myself to be 💯 authentic and open and honest with who I am (in all aspects).

I'm sure I'm the bad guy in many people's stories due to not being honest with everyone in my entire life (including partners) since Ive been lying to myself probably even to this day.

My wife said something the other day and it's been something that is 💯 accurate. I feel like everything I do has to be a secret. I don't know why. Why I need to keep so many things about myself and who i am a secret. Even stupid little things that would not cause any issues good or bad if I told my wife, I keep secret.

Like I am so afraid to allow anyone to know who I truly am deep down. Do I even know who I am deep down.... A life a secretly wanting to be a woman, and then consistently having to carry all that baggage of trying to be everything for everyone else (even if it's just what I thought they needed or wanted) I became it and embodied it.

All those thoughts and feelings are wearing me down from carrying them around with me.

I know I do it because I don't want rejection, I know I do it to be accepted and to experience love and or other things from being something I'm not in order to have a relationship or a friendship etc.

Im just getting to a point where I can't carry it anymore physically, mentally and emotionally. Always having to lie and not be honest with who I truly am to the people in my life really sucks ( as I'm sure you have all experienced this in some form or another).

Is being totally brutally honest the way I move forward.... Being completely transparent open and honest about everything, will certainly cause many of my relationships to end, and at the very least cause drama, and trust issues, and I'm getting to the point where I want to soak it all in gasoline and set it on fire.

Like I don't care who I lose anymore if it means I have to continue to play this role that isn't me.

I have been exactly where you are now. You are asking yourself the right questions, examining the whys of your behaviors. That is the beginning of your awakening.

I got so frustrated with being wrapped up in a cocoon, I felt like I was being smothered. I was in a trap of my own making. I realized that if I can make the trap, I can unmake it. And I got to the point where I realized that I do not owe anyone anything. I will live my life as I see fit, and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it.

Emerging from the cocoon was truly a breath of fresh air. I no longer carried around the burdens imposed on me by others. I felt FREE.

But it was not all rainbows and unicorns. Everything has a price. Most of my family members have nothing to do with me. At first, that stung quite a bit. But as I thought about this, a Janet Jackson song came on the radio. She was singing, "What have you done for me lately?" Exactly. Those family members have done nothing to help or support me, and honestly, we had been drifting apart for a while. Good riddance.

Lost a lot of friends, but those who stayed stayed because they love me. Since I have become free, I have a whole new bunch of friends. Some, including you, are here online. Some are here in Colorado or South Dakota. Those are the friends who count. Their friendship is much more valuable than anything my family members offered me.

In a book that I often quote, Richard Bach's Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah, is a parable that I think you should read. I found it inspiring whenever I have a tough decision to make.

https://www.awakin.org/v2/read/view.php?tid=575

Hugs!

Thanks @Lori Dee I value your friendship and mentorship greatly. I will read the parable you mentioned.

I read the parable. Saved it as a book mark as well. I will def sit and let this story soak in.

I'm not in any rush to let go and be battered by the rocks, but I feel the next time the opportunity comes in the form of a serious conversation with my wife I will let go, no matter the outcome.

Quote from: Robbyv213 on Today at 03:21:48 PMThanks @Lori Dee I value your friendship and mentorship greatly. I will read the parable you mentioned.

Robbyv213
Dear Robby:
Please be certain to listen to the good advice, suggestions, and counsel that our
staff member @Lori Dee has provided for you.

Based on my own experience and learning the hard way I am convinced that she is
very correct with her guidance that she is giving you. 

Always keep the lines of communications "two way"... that way the more experienced
members here on the Forum can give you the best advice, but of course, all of that
is fully dependent on your decisions that only you can make for yourself.

Wishing you well, happiness, and success.

Along with your other followers and readers I will eagerly be following your journey
as you feel continue to be comfortable sharing with us here on the Forum.

Warmly, Danielle [Northern Star Girl]
    The Forum Administrator

Just remember, there is no rush to anything. Only you will know what the right pace and the right time are. If the time isn't right for you, no decision is better than the wrong decision. But I think you know that. 

Robin, I love what you're doing. I know it's difficult and painful, but you are experiencing exactly what it takes to get to where your heart and soul are telling you that you belong.

Several random thoughts about things you said here...

Quote from: Robbyv213 on Today at 01:19:34 PMMy wife said something the other day and it's been something that is 💯 accurate. I feel like everything I do has to be a secret. I don't know why. Why I need to keep so many things about myself and who i am a secret. Even stupid little things that would not cause any issues good or bad if I told my wife, I keep secret.

From what you've said, your wife has repeatedly punished you (harsh word, but accurate, I think) for sharing what is possibly your greatest truth about yourself. That doesn't build intimacy or trust in a relationship. It conditions a person to keep things to themselves. Is it still your choice to do that instead of overcoming it and saying it anyway? Of course, but that's effectively saying that it's on you to be stronger than she is to compensate for her fears and insecurities. I personally reject those kinds of demands.

Quote from: Robbyv213 on Today at 01:19:34 PMI know I do it because I don't want rejection, I know I do it to be accepted and to experience love and or other things from being something I'm not in order to have a relationship or a friendship etc.

But... If you're being something you're not, are you being accepted? I mean, really? At that point, isn't the whole thing basically a performance? You pretend to be something you're not and people pretend to love you for being something you think they want you to be - but nobody ever talks about the fact that that's what everyone is doing? How does anyone know what part of it is "real?" And it's not all on you, because the other people are almost certainly doing something very similar.

In addition to the feelings that you just can't keep doing it, don't you have a desire inside you to find out what is actually real?

And I don't assume that your relationship with your wife is where your hiding yourself began. My bet is that it began in childhood, just like it did for 99.999% of us, being told by our parents what we could and couldn't do/say/think/believe and naturally wanting to comply as best we could. That's a lifetime of conditioning that is really, really difficult to unlearn. And yet, I think it's quite possibly our most fertile path to self-growth as adults. We have to learn to disappoint people and be OK with it.

Quote from: Robbyv213 on Today at 01:19:34 PMIs being totally brutally honest the way I move forward.... Being completely transparent open and honest about everything, will certainly cause many of my relationships to end, and at the very least cause drama, and trust issues, and I'm getting to the point where I want to soak it all in gasoline and set it on fire.

Like I don't care who I lose anymore if it means I have to continue to play this role that isn't me.

"Brutally honest?" "About everything?" No. Gently and compassionately honest about the things that really matter. Lori wrote a lot here about what I thought was phenomenal advice about inviting your wife to have a calm but direct conversation about where you are in the relationship and what you want and need. It doesn't have to be about going separate ways; it could be more or less what you've said in this last post of yours - that you just can't do this anymore. Doing that before you want to set everything on fire is critical. The calm and compassion are essential not only for maintaining some hope of the relationship surviving but also for your own sense of well-being. We need to learn to say that something isn't working for us before we reach our breaking point. It's hell on the psyche. We don't wait to eat until we're malnourished.

I wish you could see yourself from where I do. You are at a critical inflection point where something has to change. Your world can absolutely open up for you in fantastic ways that I'll bet you can't even imagine - but you have to walk through a very uncomfortable gauntlet to get there. Staying where you are somehow feels "safe" and "more comfortable," but that's an illusion that prevents you from stepping into the unknown. It's the classic human problem of accepting change only when it has become to painful not to.

I'm sure it feels impossible, but you really do have within you the capacity to tell your wife calmly and lovingly, "This is who I am and what I must do. I would absolutely love for you to join me on this path, but if you find in your heart that you cannot, I will understand. It will break my heart, but I will have to move forward without you." And you can do this with everyone you know. Some people will surprise you by being unbelievably supportive, and others will surprise you in the other direction. But then your life will be real and you will be free to be who you truly are.

I'm genuinely excited to see that happen.

One other thought.

Quote from: Robbyv213 on Today at 01:19:34 PMSometimes I wonder how many people's lives I touched (in good and bad ways) by not allowing myself to be 💯 authentic and open and honest with who I am (in all aspects).

I truly believe that one of the greatest gifts we can give to the people in our lives - even people we don't know - is to be our true, authentic selves. It shows people that there's another way, that it's OK to "deviate from the norm." I don't think most people have any inkling how much societal conditioning compresses us into just a ridiculously narrow range of parameters for self-expression. And because of it, almost everyone you meet feels some sense of restriction and confinement - whether they're aware of it or not. So showing people that you can make your own choices and chart your own path and deal with people's reactions is a way of expanding social consciousness and may very well inspire someone else to do the same.