I pretty much had to supress anything to not be "outed" starting at an early age. I pretended not to like anything girly, but in some cases was very flamboyant. Even now I have to take stealth to new levels, like hunching over ever so slightly when I walk sometimes, to not have a chest that "sticks out" too much due to HRT.

Audrey: yeah, had that, its infuriating... i went to a store, i knew what i wanted, the guy still treated me like an invilid and incapable of making my choices.
and when i went to buy some boots from a surplus store 'are you here for your boyfriend love?' >>

yep, social change is GREATER than the physical, but each is still physically important.

Jonnie: Estrogen wont change who you are. but it will enhance and edit bits.

Many people on this board tell how they found thier true selves after hrt, or how it changed them for the better... long passages about how they became so girly and loved pretty things.

I dont know what pills thier on.... because im still me....

im a tomboy, i love it. Baggy jeans, a tanktop, sorted!

if anything, being a tomboy helps me pass ^_^
nobody would expect a transgirl to be wearing vans and hoodies, and have an eyebrow bar? im just TOO boyish to be not a girl ^_^ if that makes sense.

Like audrey said, if transition is going to change you, its not for you. If it is, you wont change a bit inside.
R >

I'm tomboy-ish, and a dyke. LOL I also I've performed in a drag king show. sometimes I'm more girly, and other times I'm not. I like wearing jeans, tank tops, and skater shoes. I don't always wear make up... um, and I'm the only girl who's showed up to work several times wearing a tie. In the lesbian world I'm still considered fem, but not high-fem. I'm also considered to be pretty hot...   >

Just be yourself, and don't care what others think. You don't need to live up so some "feminine" ideal -- there's a lot of women who are all different.

--natalie

Quote from: Christine Eryn on May 06, 2008, 02:37:11 AM
I pretty much had to supress anything to not be "outed" starting at an early age. I pretended not to like anything girly, but in some cases was very flamboyant. Even now I have to take stealth to new levels, like hunching over ever so slightly when I walk sometimes, to not have a chest that "sticks out" too much due to HRT.

Hahah. You're not alone on the hunching thing...

They don't seem to notice though, cause I always have been a slouchy cave-thing in my families eyes anyway...

key reason to transition: you are female, or male or whatever

masculinity, and femininity dont come into it.
R >

The other day someone posted a link to an unpleasant article "How to spot a transvestite."

If I were to write a guide titled "How to spot a transsexual," item number 1 would be: She's wearing pants. Pants are the transsexual woman's uniform. They mark you as a true transsexual and a true woman, since we all know real women never wear skirts.

</sarcasm>

Seriously, though, you're in good company. Femme transsexual women are getting scarce these days. Hasn't kept me from expressing my femininity, however much attitude it brings upon me from other trans women. Actually, I hardly associate with trans people IRL, I spend my time with genetic women who, incredibly, often wear skirts and dresses of their own free volition. I swear my skirts and I fit in better amongst them than in the MTF world.

Posted on: May 08, 2008, 07:51:44 PM

---

Quote from: Rachael on May 07, 2008, 05:33:57 AM
key reason to transition: you are female, or male or whatever

masculinity, and femininity dont come into it.

Granted, that statement is very true, and I agree with it 100%. But it doesn't stop me from being my authentic feminine self.

For you is your way; and for me is my way.
--Qur'an 105:6

When I first came to susans I asked a similar question. I've always been interested in
womens fashion but I have no desire to wear skirts or dresses. Personally I think what you wear
is a pesonal style choice. I dress up as a man only when I have too... for the most part
I wear jeans unless something else is required. I do want to wear casual womens clothes.

I do love to wear makeup... but I think that is because it makes me look more female and
I love the transformation that takes place. My whole attitude about myself changes when
I have makeup on.

I do like to shop.. for pretty much anything, but my other hobbies are male type hobbies
and I don't see that changing.

So I guess I would be considered a tomboy... but I've felt like that my entire life.... there
has been a girl dying to get out for a long time. But now that she can... and it looks like
other than makeup and hair style(and body changes) it will be more of the same.

Amanda

I guess it's been a stereotype that if one is MtF one must be a girly girl.  My friends were telling me that to all the other girls I'd be the worst girl in the world, but all the guys would love me because I enjoy the things they like to do.  For example I would rather pair a good beer with food than a good wine.  Oh, and working on cars and all that jazz, like the Formula SAE car we have at school.

Hypatia:  Honey, nobody threatened your right to femininity

Im feminine at times, but i reserve my right to listen to rock, wear baggy jeans, and grunge out


Redfish:Avast! Where is ze box locked up with locks? and what does that have to do with ->-bleeped-<-s?
R >

Quote from: Maddie Suzumiya on May 08, 2008, 11:17:52 PM
I guess it's been a stereotype that if one is MtF one must be a girly girl.  My friends were telling me that to all the other girls I'd be the worst girl in the world, but all the guys would love me because I enjoy the things they like to do.  For example I would rather pair a good beer with food than a good wine.  Oh, and working on cars and all that jazz, like the Formula SAE car we have at school.

You know its funny...
A good friend of mine once told me that she couldn't imagine me as a girl, but now she says she finally sees it. I apparently really threw her off in some ways, which apparently doesn't happen much, on account of her being quite amazing at picking things up.

I'd probably only get along with the really weird girls... And not to mention the fact that most of them are anime fangirls, so I might just be alone in that category of not caring. There are many other links though...

I mean... In that whole respect, I'd enjoy a beer and a wine. I'm really so open to things that it often confuses me as to what my favorite things are... So I'm usually able to shapeshift pretty well into social groups. Except the jock preps... I think they are a tumor of people/cells...

I guess my need is to be *female* moreso than feminine. I don't really like skirts or makeup. I like to wear things which show me, being much more concerned with the shape and fit of my clothes than their inherent femininity. I feel great in nice jeans and a fitted casual tee, but in a skirt and high heels... it's just not me. Now granted, if I found a skirt that really accentuated my shape, I'd love it... but I'm not going to wear a skirt just to wear a skirt, if you see what I mean? Likewise, I might put on a little lip gloss or blush to accentuate what's already there, but I'm not going to wear makeup just to wear makeup because it's a feminine thing to do. I like feeling sexy (well, I try, lol) and female more than feminine, which just isn't quite the same thing for me.

So am I a tomboy if I don't feel an urge to express femininity? If I value being female over being "feminine?"

~Kate~

P.S. Yes Ell, between the car talk and now the lack of femininity... things aren't looking good for me, are they?

smartarse
R >

Exactly.  I don't really like skirts either (they make me arse look huge).  Then again, men's clothes are what fit me at the moment.  Let's face it, there's no point investing money into something that isn't going to fit me later so I might as well stick to man jeans and t-shirts while I rock out on my guitar Brian May style. 

Quote from: Rachael on May 09, 2008, 03:18:10 AM
Hypatia:  Honey, nobody threatened your right to femininity

You haven't seen how much crap I've had to take from certain sectors of the MTF community... the hostility... Susan's forums is a good environment pretty free of that kind of attitude. But in much of the wider MTF world... one doesn't dare be openly femme. Pants are the new orthodoxy. Witness the overwhelming sentiment in this thread against femininity. But I could not have come out and dealt with the enormous challenge of transition unless I had enough backbone to be true to my own authenticity, and now that I've succeeded in transitioning, I'm not going to give up my own authenticity for what someone else believes is proper. I just have to say I am puzzled to hear it always said that MTFs are supposed to be extra-girly. Because I never see anyone who admits to it. The tide of MTF opinion is almost unanimously contrary to that. So where the idea that we're so girly comes from is a mystery to me. I've dealt with tons of rejection and even cruelty from elsewhere in the MTF world because of my style preferences. Sorry, I brought my still-hurting feelings in here. Even though it's true as you said Susan's forums have not been mean to me, so I have no complaints about here. Carry on...

Quote from: Hypatia on May 09, 2008, 08:14:30 PM

Quote from: Rachael on May 09, 2008, 03:18:10 AM
Hypatia:  Honey, nobody threatened your right to femininity

You haven't seen how much crap I've had to take from certain sectors of the MTF community... the hostility... Susan's forums is a good environment pretty free of that kind of attitude. But in much of the wider MTF world... one doesn't dare be openly femme. Pants are the new orthodoxy. Witness the overwhelming sentiment in this thread against femininity. But I could not have come out and dealt with the enormous challenge of transition unless I had enough backbone to be true to my own authenticity, and now that I've succeeded in transitioning, I'm not going to give up my own authenticity for what someone else believes is proper. I just have to say I am puzzled to hear it always said that MTFs are supposed to be extra-girly. Because I never see anyone who admits to it. The tide of MTF opinion is almost unanimously contrary to that. So where the idea that we're so girly comes from is a mystery to me. I've dealt with tons of rejection and even cruelty from elsewhere in the MTF world because of my style preferences. Sorry, I brought my still-hurting feelings in here. Even though it's true as you said Susan's forums have not been mean to me, so I have no complaints about here. Carry on...

Really? Cuz MtFs, especially the older MtFs I know have always complained that in the past the trans communities they were associated with were always very critical of MtFs that were not extraordinarily feminine.

Really, it is an over-compensation thing. "i was not born a girl so i have to defend myself and my certainty that I am a woman by being the classical 1950's mother ultra femme always wearing pearls and make up and..." etc and are, in my opinion, jealous of those who do not force themselves or have to TRY to be feminine of their confidence.

though I am not saying you are that person :"x not at all.

Just be yourself.  If you are sure you are female inside, then go for it.  I usually like jeans myself, though I do love cute tops.  I know a lot of GGs who are bigger football fans than I've ever been. 

Kristi

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 09, 2008, 08:39:35 PM
Really, it is an over-compensation thing.

Speaking of overcompensation, I could have sworn that the tendency toward being tomboy looks awfully like trying too hard to prove something. And jealousy? Maybe I detect a certain jealousy of those who can pull off wearing attractive styles.

I wasn't there years ago, so I'm not addressing that. I'm talking about what I'm going through right now. And right now I feel alienated among my own tribe. Regardless, I feel perfectly at home being femme among genetic women, which is all that matters to me. And there are a lot more of them. When I hang out with genetic women, I can feel free to be my femme self and be accepted, unlike among MTFs.

Prove something? pull off attractive styles?

love, its NOTHING to do with your body.... look at natal females that are 'tomboys'


When i wore a snazzy outfit to a work do, i shocked everyone... 'omg why do you wear jeans and hoodies, you have a fantastic figure' etc....

i can wear what i like, but i wear what i want.

I dont HAVE to wear ultra feminine clothing to look like a female. so i dont. and it suits me to a tee.... (gedit?)
R >

well... as for me.. i am tomboyish in my love for cars, building things, and sk8r inspired styles.  i drive an 89 vw golf, (girly), love modern design (still girly), manga style art and designer toys (kawaii=ultra girly) and have you seen emo sk8 styles? so, i guess i am just a girl in a boy body doing her best. lol.  you know.... there is some benefit being born the wrong gender..... i like to get dirty.     and i dont have a "cant sit on couch"... lolz

Quote from: Hypatia on May 09, 2008, 11:58:31 PM

Quote from: Gracie FAISE on May 09, 2008, 08:39:35 PM
Really, it is an over-compensation thing.

Speaking of overcompensation, I could have sworn that the tendency toward being tomboy looks awfully like trying too hard to prove something. And jealousy? Maybe I detect a certain jealousy of those who can pull off wearing attractive styles.

I wasn't there years ago, so I'm not addressing that. I'm talking about what I'm going through right now. And right now I feel alienated among my own tribe. Regardless, I feel perfectly at home being femme among genetic women, which is all that matters to me. And there are a lot more of them. When I hang out with genetic women, I can feel free to be my femme self and be accepted, unlike among MTFs.

Wah? Nah, I can dress nicely. I have great style and could easily look well in dresses and skirts and nice blouses. I just don't have the money, and on top of that I live with my parents adn they're still not ready to see me that dressed up.

And I was not just talking about long ago, i'm talking about now. I dunno where you're from, but everyone I know feels alienated for not being really feminine.