Oh don't shut it down, we are in the process of describing all of this.  There is no one way, lots of us are very different.  If we don't explore what we are, how do we ever find out what we are.  And if we don't explore what what we are not, how do we find out what we are not?  Really.

I'm sorry. I guess I'm just a fool for acting like something I'm not. To be honest, I don't know what  I am. If you want it back up start it up yourself. God admins, I can't even speak like I'm feeling right now. God I have bad attitude at the moment, I need to go lie down.


last edit by tink
reason: removed profanity

I just did.  And I don't know who I am - or am going to be sometimes - from day to day.  Sometimes I'm just a disco diva, out in my little outfits dancing till dawn, other times, I'm loading trucks at the same hour.  I enjoy each in their own way.  Confused is just the beginning of it.

Well, at least you're not a loser like me. I mean I am probably worse than dog crap compared to you people. You all do have a serious problem, but I'm just a pretender. A real crap head is what I am

Poly, hon. Just relax. It's ok. Just say what's on your mind sans profanity. We're all here to discuss this stuff.

No, you just have some things to work out.  I know I did.  Still do as a matter of fact, that ->-bleeped-<- don't end, it just goes on and on.  Not to be one or the other, or worse, to want to be both at a moment of choosing, is not easy, its never easy.

Alright, I appreciate it. I'm going to sleep. I guess I'm just not myself at the moment.

Quote from: polymorphic on May 30, 2008, 09:15:23 PMWell, at least you're not a loser like me. I mean I am probably worse than dog crap compared to you people. You all do have a serious problem, but I'm just a pretender. A real crap head is what I am

Don't say that! Be rational!

It is CLEAR you have a problem you MUST address because you are suffering... that is just as legitimate as anyone else's struggles here.

Anyone here who is playing the "my life is worse than yours" game is merely a destructive influence on this forum and in my opinion should be removed. Now, I don't have that right to say someone ought not be here (it says in the ToS that only admins can tell people to leave), but I can certainly make that recommendation. No one here should be bullying you or anyone else, or making you feel "less trans" because you don't have a "target sex."

There is no way any of us is "worst" here.

You need to cease the self bashing and look at this situation for what it is. This isn't about what other people think about you... and you must think higher of yourself. You don't have to have a "definite" identity. A lot of us are questioning who we are, even if we don't say it. I know I am. I sometimes wonder if transition is the right thing for me. My gender identity is strong, but I'm sure that isn't the case for everyone. And being an androgyne isn't necessarily being confused; if there's one important life lesson I've learned from being transgendered, it's that gender is NOT binary.

Please Poly, calm down and give yourself the respect you deserve. You keep saying such hateful things about yourself and I don't like to watch that. You aren't ugly, horrible, "too" anything except maybe too hard on yourself.

Sleeping is a good idea. Watch a good flick. Have some tea. Get your mind off of this for a little while... A lot of the people here (if not all of them) want to support you.

Put it back up if you can, it was a good thread. It doesn't matter if people don't agree on everything. There isn't one way to be androgyne, or balanced, or any other way you want to describe it. As we talk through things we figure it all out.

hugs

Z

Sorry! Did I start an argument with my balanced question?

Guys, I'm a clueless boy! Don't people always sputter that men are stupid? That was definitely one of my boneheaded moments, and it was an honest question. Because I'm new at all this. I apologize if my curiosity caused a conflict.

And sorry if I give myself too much credit; it is most likely this problem has nothing to do with me. But I'm a guilty person a lot of the time.

Guys invented Thermonuclear War, the Golden Gate Bridge and Sourdough French Bread.  They might be dumb all over, but stupid, never.

Quote from: tekla on May 30, 2008, 09:41:43 PMGuys invented Thermonuclear War, the Golden Gate Bridge and Sourdough French Bread.  They might be dumb all over, but stupid, never.

Heck, just the other day I thought about ancient Rome. Men invented most, if not all of that stuff they were using/doing. Even almost as far as the Industrial Revolution. Women were oppressed and taught to sew and rear children so men were ->-bleeped-<-s and stole a great deal of the glory.

Talk about American inventors? There will hardly be any women on that list. People who discover viruses, cure patients, create amazing machines like the artificial heart? Men. A step ahead. Because their instincts tell them to be that step ahead of women and each other.

Being a transman, I don't really have that "natural" impulse. More like Napoleon Syndrome feeling a bit small. That for me is an honest-to-God character flaw.

I'm sorry for being so self hating.

I wish I knew why I am like this. I know it isn't because I want to be this way. I know its not because I was bullied. Although yes bullying dragged my self esteem to the depths of hell, I don't believe that bullying is the cause of my own hatred of myself. To be honest, I don't know what the cause is. Maybe I'm just being toyed with by someone or something in a higher plane. I don't know. Maybe, I'm just innately this way. Once again, I don't know.

What I do know is that I don't want to be this way. I want happiness. I want to be statisfied with myself. I want to belong.

Whether you believe anything I've said, I don't care. As far as I know, I'm being as brutally honest as I can be.

I hope that you all can forgive me for being such an ass to myself.

Even reading over this you may not believe me, all I can say is, I'm sorry.

Ya know, sweetie (Poly), its not a matter of saying you're sorry to any of us. It really isn't.

A lot of us have been bullied, have been unsure of whom we were. You're among people who get that part of it. Though we don't know your pain; we do know our own from many of the same circumstances.

Eventually you're gonna have to come with a sincere and heart-felt apology to yourself for the way you have allowed others' beratings of you to convince you you should be berated. You, as most of us have, have taken that belittling and exiling within yourself and now those people don't need to berate or belittle you anymore.

They've taught you to do it to yourself. I know, I'd be willing to easily imagine that most of us here know, what that is like. Some of us have gotten through it and others haven't, some... well, maybe some never will.

But, dear, that place you need to go is where all too many of us have or had to go: the place where we just realize that we are human too. And as humans we are worthy of self-respect and some joy. You and I are not responsible for every negative thing that happens in the world, nor for every negative thing that happened to us.

Sometimes, people are most truly innocent victims of others. No blame. Wrong place, wrong time.

It's a very difficult road to stop those incredibly strong voices inside yourself that have convinced you that you are worthless, evil, will never amount to anything.

So, just allow us to listen to you while you spill some of that pain, that loathing. Keeping it inside and festering is simply gonna kill you. I, for one, would find that an incredible waste of talent, goodness and heart.

You are worthy, Poly. You are good and have much to give and receive that is good and healthy.

Since I know that, and evidently others (Elwood, tekla, Nero) know it as well, why not let us hold that knowledge for you for just a little while and dole it out to you while you build, little by little, that understanding within yourself?

We know you, Poly. Because we are, to some unimaginable extent, you.

But yes, dear. Nero's right. No more cussing, okay? It won't make your pain any more real for those of us who have, or had, pain very like your own.



Nichole

Thank you. I appreciate your kind words Nichole. You just don't know how much of a help reading what you have to say is like. I feel so sad and depressed right now. As much as I like to think I'm a master of emotion, I'm crying. Thank you.

You're most welcome, Poly. And you're most welcome here as well.



Nichole

Can this topic be locked or deleted? I'd appreciate it if tekla or a moderator would at the very least lock this topic.

Quote from: polymorphic on May 31, 2008, 05:22:04 AM
Can this topic be locked or deleted? I'd appreciate it if tekla or a moderator would at the very least lock this topic.

Poly,

Usually locking a topic happens when people are attacking each other and/or the conversation has bogged down and no more good will come of it. That isn't happening here. If you really want it deleted, that could happen, are you really sure though? Once it's gone, that's it.

Not much that I can add to Nichole's excellent post except to say, yes, we internalize the hate and take it out on ourselves. Don't keep beating up on yourself, you didn't do anything wrong by being the wonderful androgynous person who you are.

Zythyra

Well, I want this to be an example to others out there. To know that that there is hope in this world, I guess. Okay, you don't have to lock it or delete it.

I've locked the topic, Poly. But, if others want it opened there's nothing here that really requires it locked, except for your request.

I think deleting it would be a mistake. Because, you see, no matter how embarrassed you may feel about it now, it may be of some help to another, or many others. Pain and fear, self-loathing and harshness to one's own self are not unusual amongst us. That we say/write things we come to regret or not feel as much later as we did once, doesn't mean those things aren't important.

You have a number, if not every one, of the folks here who truly are concerned and caring for you. And you will hardly be either the first, the last or the only one who finds themselves despairing at some point.

So, I think the thread should stay, maybe be unlocked again so it can run its course and takes a place among the other threads like it here. It will wait and be found by one who may need to see it more than they have needed to see anything in their lives. And it will help them. Just as it has helped you to discover you really are not alone and shunned.  

tekla said it better than I did: "Oh don't shut it down, we are in the process of describing all of this.  There is no one way, lots of us are very different.  If we don't explore what we are, how do we ever find out what we are.  And if we don't explore what what we are not, how do we find out what we are not?  Really."

Nichole