In regards to your reply Kate Alice,  I've read Dr. Richard Novice's book "Alice In Genderland" and I thought it was a great book as well. That was one point that did enter my mind when I read it about how he can claim to be heterosexual, even though he's got a steady boyfriend and a wife and a family. But I really like your explanation. At times I actually thought that way myself. It's almost like a split personality.

In regards to your reply  Dawn, I don't really care much about wht society thinks either. I know that they'll always be against me. Ever since my mom found out that she has a transsexual son, she's always refered to me as being 'abnormal'. She's 'normal' and just because I am the way I am, she's already labeled me as being 'abnormal'.   Now about your interest in men, I was actually just reading something, where it says that after a transsexual has SRS her sexual preferences will slowly change. In a way the center point of a body is right where the crotch is.


I'm sorry to hear about your problems Sarah Louise. If you'd like to talk about them with me, please feel free to PM me.

Gina 

You don't need to have SRS to start changing.  I've been on hormones for a little over 3 months now and I have already started noticing changes.  So far, I have had 2 crushes on guys in that time.  It is very distressing for me because of my confusion.  I also realized that I felt conditioned to look at women.  I look at them more out of habit than anything else.  I still lean more towards liking women, but it's changing.  After more time on hormones and SRS, who knows.  That's why I'm waiting until after to decide what I want.

Melissa

Oh, yes, Melissa, hormones are powerful stuff.  Funny, they affect all of us pretty much the same way - although not necessarily to the same degree - physically, but the mental/emotional affects can be quite different.

I was a very straight guy, and I remember the shock I felt years ago after being on estrogen 6 months when I saw a young 'yard boy' walking down the road, stripped to the waist, and thought, 'Wow, that's nice."  Slapped myself in the face and dang near ran the car off the road.

Between gender identity and sexual orientation, there are just too many degrees of freedom to express it well, sometimes even among oursleves.

I consider my self a non-practicing bisexual.  I'm still much attracted to women, but now also to men.  I have a wonderful husband who was born female to whom I'm completely faithful.  (Well, I do look.  )  I'll be 69 in a moth; so it's pretty much a moot point,  Still confusing, though.

You young kids will figure it out.

Melissa, my dear friend and sister, I was just merely saying that SRS is one of the ways that can change a persons sexual orientation. I am well aware that hormones taken for a length of time as stated by Robyn can have an effect on the mental and emotional aspects of our transition. I'm sure that as the months pass by Melissa, you'll find that you are more attracted to men than you are women. I've been on Estrogen for a month and I've already started to notice the change in me somewhat. I had started taking Black Cohosh, but was advised that it would do nothing for me, so I've discontiunued using it. For the longest time I'll look at a woman, more to see what I can use from her instead of admiring her beauty, if that makes sense. 

Gina 

Yes, I have heard that SRS can have a profound effect on you sexual orientation.  As for looking at women to see what "ideas" I can glean from them, I do that too.  Maybe it's about makeup, maybe facial shapes for FFS, or maybe just to realize that in some aspects my body is more female than some GGs out there, which is a self-esteem builder.

Melissa

to myself I'd clarify this by seperating 'gender' from 'sex'; a person with external genitalia that match his or her partner's is classifiable as homosexual. This may include cross-gendered behaviors.

Quote from: jan c on May 06, 2006, 11:27:55 AM
to myself I'd clarify this by seperating 'gender' from 'sex'; a person with external genitalia that match his or her partner's is classifiable as homosexual. This may include cross-gendered behaviors.

I wouldn't. Many FtM's don't have bottom surgery, but they're still men.

Dennis

I'll second that, Dennis.

Dennis I do not disagree: gendered as men. Sexed as something else; is a reality. I unfortunately for now am @ the other side of the equation.
Not ideal but real. Heartbreakingly.

Quote from: Melissa on May 06, 2006, 10:29:33 AM
Yes, I have heard that SRS can have a profound effect on you sexual orientation.
...

Hrm, I am a ways from that yet but I am failing to see why. I am not defined by my genitalia, nor is my sexual identity, thank you very much.  If anything SRS means I can do something, but I do not see how it will change my orientation. But as I said, I am not there yet ^*wink* I will have to get back to you on that

I agree with Kimberly.
No offense to you,Jan, and correct me if I'm wrong,but as I understood your post,in simpler terms basically what you're saying is this:
Just because an MtF who likes men has 20grand or so and a good surgeon, she is exempt from the homosexual label.
But an FtM who likes women and doesn't have surgery(for obvious reasons) is forever a lesbian.
Surgery does wonders for transsexuals and I'm not knocking it,but no matter how good the surgery may be, it is still artificial,man-made.
And this is the sole factor in determining whether a TS person is homosexual or heterosexual?
Surely you jest.

Well put, Nero. I've been trying to think of a way to say exactly that.

Dennis

Sometimes I feel that the need to label creates more problems then it solves.   I guess one could say that if the category fits wear it otherwise go about categoryless.   If that is too scary to no category weary than make one up.

I think your gender identity, rather than you genetalia is what makes the determination.

Melissa

Miss gina_taylor:
  You seem to be a wonderful and caring human being Gina.
  A disadvantage of this fine quality is that often or not we care too much for the opinion of who come as caring curious friends. I have fallen for that so many times. This prevented me from finding my true way.
  Early I learned by accident not to box myself into someone elses definitions(mind).
The subject is the word Homosexual that has no meaning because It means so many differrent things to different people. The sexual act is clear but does that commission makes a person one.
  I have had sex with various "straight men and women" go figure. Ex-cons do not consider themselves homosexual ( givers nor receivers, see "men, women and rape".) I see myself as a lesbian ->-bleeped-<-. Male TG who preffers women. Quirky? yes.
  I spent  time and money in therapy to discover that I was paying for someone to get an education on Gender Dysphoria. They have no answers, is a living field sudy, we are defining the field. My sincere respects for the fine proffesionals in this field.
  What is your faith in this? I am at peace with my creator in my role in this world, A   straight female  friend taught me that I provide a lot of help and understanding to those who need it, my TG life has taught me many skilss, tolerance and love can transcend barriers,  illnesses.   My experience is of benefit to society, that i know and so do many of my fellow straight neighbours.
With love, sheila
                                     Time will pass, will you?

Quote from: Karen on April 16, 2006, 10:48:31 AM
(...not sure whether to post this in this thread, or the one Steph referred Gina to...)

I know at some point some Neanderthal will call me a (word used only to make a point,) "->-bleeped-<-GOT!!!"  It was in fact a label that I spent many years running and hiding from. 

I found it strange to do that because 1) I had looked deeply within myself, asking myself if I was gay.  The answer that came back was 'no'.  and 2) I personally had no problem or discomfort being around gay men (or for that matter, gay/lesbian women) but shied away from the association in public, lest I be identified by some neanderthal as also being gay (guilt by association...)

Now, what's really interesting is that, since finally figuring out that all these years I've been a trans girl (and didn't know it or wouldn't admit it,) any lingering discomfort with being around gay men has evaporated.

Very interesting, that...

Karen

Hi Karen,

   Your quote here totally nails how I've been too (i'm MTF). I no longer feel scared that I'll be thought of as gay if I associate with, or show approval, of gay men.   I believe it is from the strength I receive from accepting my femininity. Now that I know what I am. I'm comfortable with others who know who they are.
   It's also funny because I examined myself for a long time to try to work out if I am gay. That identity just never fit me. Men are men whether they are gay or not, and I know I can't comprehend the gay male mind any more than I do the straight male mind.

   It just occurred to me that if I had more exposure to the gay community, I might have tried that lifestyle, but it would have been frustrating because it would be because I didn't know that I am female. I didn't even know it was possible for people to be transgendered.


Becky

On SRS and orientation:

I think makes a sort of sense. At some deeper level, the orientation might have been there, but until surgery, it's supressed because it somehow feels awkward or inappropriate. Afterwards, there might be a feeling of it becoming 'right' that makes you freer.

I guess what I mean is... while I'm a little unsure yet, at some level I am attracted to men but I would never say I am gay. A relationship between men is not for me, which is why I've decided to hold off even dating until I'm basically fulltime. I want my partner to see me completely as myself: a woman, not a man.

For me, I tried finding men attractive, but it just isn't me really, so I guess I'm lesbian.  I do however find myself attracted to FTMs, because the generally look feminine and lack the penis.

Melissa

Naw, FTMs rock because they generally behave as gentlemen, and that, to me, is just adorable.

Good point Kimberly.  That too.  Of course, I generally behave more lady-like than a lot of women and that gets noticed.

Melissa