The average height of women and men accross the US
doesn't vary as much as people think, though
the distribution does vary quite a bit.

In a place like california, there is a huge distribution because of the high presence
of immigrants from all over. Latina and Asian women are below average but, there
is a massive cross section of old country immigrants (germany, scandinavia) which
would pull the average up.

In places like Wyoming, the amount of Asian and Latin immigrants would be minimal
and the distribution will have a tendency to be tight around the average.

Quote from: Keira on July 15, 2008, 02:29:13 AM

The average height of women and men accross the US
doesn't vary as much as people think, though
the distribution does vary quite a bit.

In a place like california, there is a huge distribution because of the high presence
of immigrants from all over. Latina and Asian women are below average but, there
is a massive cross section of old country immigrants (germany, scandinavia) which
would pull the average up.

In places like Wyoming, the amount of Asian and Latin immigrants would be minimal
and the distribution will have a tendency to be tight around the average.

EXACTLY. I run into a lot of Mexican men who are my size and I say, "Well, they've got wives and kids and they're short." But their wives are often shorter. Sure, you guys can step on my twisted views, but those twisted views keep me happy. If I tell myself the complete truth and look at the facts, I'll fall back into the "I'll never be a true man" mentality.

As for people growing after T, it's not much. It can be 1 or 2 inches if you're very lucky, but it's never something like 5 or 6 inches (which is what I want). It never happens. And most girls stop doing their MAJOR growing the year after they start their period (despite the "stories" you've heard; I've had about 6 doctors tell me this). Testosterone closes the growth plates so it could even cut a person's growth shorter, though it MAY give a SLIGHT growth spurt.

Actually, its estrogen who closes the growth plates EVEN IN MEN,
that's why men become taller (less estrogen).

Estrogen
is the main fuel of long bone growth even in men at puberty
because part of T is transformed into E into body tissues
through a breakdown of the T molecule's structure.

Women start being exposed to high E levels at 12 and finish most of their
growth by 16, men are exposed later when T levels increase enough for
T -> E to become sufficient in the bones and finish most growth by 19.

What T does to bone is fuel cross sectional growth, meaning the size of bones
increase, they become denser, more robust. That happens in the face also.

The long bones and pelvis fuse much earlier than facial bones,
which never truly fuse completely, so facial
features continue being influenced subtly by T into the late 20's.

Okay... then why does like everything I read say that HRT on FtMs closes the growth palettes? Am I reading fallacious websites? Can someone give me one that's accurate, please>

OMG. T helps bones thicken? I freaking hope so! My wrist is under 2 inches wide. I've got to take a picture with a ruler by it. People will think my arm is that of a 10 year old's.

The two off hand that I know of would be Hudson and transitional male both generally good sources of information.

Estrogen is what fuses the bones. If you get an x-ray of your growth plates you can find out if the bones have fused. If not it is still possible to induce growth. Testosterone is a poor choice for height, human growth hormone is the main factor with testosterone and IGF2 also playing roles. You also must prevent estrogen induced fusion until desire height is achieved. If they are fused you are out of luck. My bones fused before I was 15 so it didn't help me but if you want ask your doctor. Incidentally testosterone can induce fusion in a young FTM if estrogen blockers aren't prescribed concurrently or the testosterone dose is too high.

http://www.thetransitionalmale.com/TMyths.html
http://www.ftmguide.org/myths.html#3

->-bleeped-<-boy

There's no way I'll get hormone blockers in time (if that's what you're referring to).

Elwood- Estrogen blockers alone won't cause height gains and might have serious side effects without concurrent HRT, especially because you are still in adolescence. The reason for estrogen blockers concurrent with HRT would be to prevent the combination of your own estrogen levels, estrogen created from testosterone and what is created by your fat cells from triggering the fusion process and halting future bone growth. You would need to supplement with HGH which is very expensive (150 dollars a day) and very hard to get. I had a friend who had a kidney transplant and the drugs they gave her stopped her production of hgh and upward growth. She was given HGH and still only gained 4" which put her just over 4'7" and this was before fusion with optimal timing. Not really worth the risk for me but for her it was better then nothing.

If you are not on T yet you might find a doctor to prescribe estrogen blockers. However very few doctors will prescribe these protocols for someone with normal growth development for cosmetic growth. After fusion there is little need to take estrogen blockers concurrent with testosterone unless you are having a problem like me.

->-bleeped-<-boy

I never once said I'd want blockers without HRT. That would be dimwitted, and you give me far less credit than I have earned here. If they're going to approve the goddamn blockers, they're probably going to approve the HRT as well. They don't usually just give the okay to one of those things for a person my age, for the very reasons you've described.

Growth hormone is not taken every day. But no, I will not be able to get growth hormone. Like any other hormone treatment, there has to be a legitimate reason other than "Oh, I wish I was taller." Otherwise, they'd be selling growth hormone like hot cakes.

Depends. What "special" problem do you have that allows you to have hormone blockers?

It is a primary treatment for youth with GID who can't for one reason or another have HRT. So to ease some difficulties associated with hormones these youth can be prescribed a blocker. It is most useful during puberty but can be prescribed after. From the little I know of your case that may be medical unwise but otherwise indicated. A endo could tell you for sure. I am also assuming you can legally make medical decisions at your age in your region.

Sorry I misunderstood you. HGH is taken every 3-7 days, I don't know a lot about the actual drug but I can hook you up with a yahoo group that talk a lot about it. I didn't want blockers by that point, so I fought for TRT. Yeah the guys who want taller or bigger muscle order without a script from international sources or black market. Black market is expensive and a total unknown. International is a judgement call and much cheaper.

->-bleeped-<-boy

I actually wrote a bit of a miniature seminar about growth hormone therapy. The biggest point is that a person needs a legitimate reason to get growth hormone (safely. I would not recommend using the "black market").

Totally agree with you, one of the reasons I didn't consider it. I don't know a lot but I am always interested, send me a PM.

->-bleeped-<-boy

Unlike T and E, HGH has many systemic effects, beyond growth, that
are poorly understood even now, that makes it use dicey.

That's why it should only be used under very close medical supervision
and with absolute necessity.