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What EXACTLY is it?

Started by le_joli_papillon, July 15, 2008, 03:54:22 AM

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MaggieB

For me RLE was when I dropped the pretense that I was male at all. Before that, I dressed like an effeminate gay male i.e. Albert from the movie "Birdcage".  I wasn't trying to act like a gay male but it was as close as I felt comfortable to be male and wear women's clothes in public. I had a long pony tail and always wore a billed cap. Basically, I looked pretty weird. I did that for about two years until one day I got a female hair style and openly tried to pass as a female all the time. As far as my therapists said, they feel that I was full time for all that time. Many people did call me Ma'am and men opened doors for me.
Now after four months of full time by my definition, I am ecstatic. I cannot imagine why I didn't do this earlier. I suppose my SO was the limiting factor as she demanded that we would never be seen together with me in a dress or full time. The mystery to me was why she went out with me like Albert. She does go out with me now and has no problems because I pass.
So I don't see RLE as a silly test. It is where we start our life. It is the reason we transition. We are getting the major benefit of transition at the beginning of the period. Skipping or eliminating RLE seems like throwing out the best part. Surgery is a minor part. We are too focused on what is between our legs in the US.

Maggie
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sneakersjay

I have started calling myself Jay when on the phone and when ordering stuff; I'm on vacation now and checking in as Jay.

I haven't done the legal thing yet (name change, gender marker change) as I'm wanting to wait until I pass better before doing so; also legally changing my name means I have to come out at work, and for that I really want to be passing very well and be obvious. ;)  Otherwise I would have done it ages ago.

Jay


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Hypatia

I wasn't too sure about how well I passed, but having everyone think I'm male was driving me crazy, I couldn't stand it any longer. Test, schmest. I just needed to be myself.

So I noticed beginning from my first day of full time that I was suddenly passing adequately. In person and on the phone. I've done great since then. Taking that plunge was the magic ingredient. Maybe I got a boost in passability because I was suddenly so relieved and relaxed, the weight of the world having been lifted off me.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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Hal

To be expected to live full-time OFFICIALLY as your gender is/would be a ridiculus requirement. When you get hired, what do you say, "oh, just ignore that giant F or M on my IDs/records, call me Danielle, not Daniel, refer to me as she not he (or vica versa) and make sure everyone else at work complies and understands so I can fulfill my RLT requirement?"  What RLT seems to be suggesting/has come to mean in many places is presenting as your gender unofficially whenever possible, like whenever one goes out shopping or to the movies, and ordering pizza under an appropriate name...One cannot control/force the "people who know" to play along...
Any thoughts?

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DeValInDisguise

Quote from: Hal on August 07, 2008, 02:40:48 PM
To be expected to live full-time OFFICIALLY as your gender is/would be a ridiculus requirement. When you get hired, what do you say, "oh, just ignore that giant F or M on my IDs/records, call me Danielle, not Daniel, refer to me as she not he (or vica versa) and make sure everyone else at work complies and understands so I can fulfill my RLT requirement?"  What RLT seems to be suggesting/has come to mean in many places is presenting as your gender unofficially whenever possible, like whenever one goes out shopping or to the movies, and ordering pizza under an appropriate name...One cannot control/force the "people who know" to play along...
Any thoughts?



That's just what I did when I transitioned at work.  My legal name is still my male name until the court date in a few weeks, but my new business cards, my computer and email accounts, my name plate all have Val on them.  I just ordered internet service in my next house under my non-legal name.  The only thing I didn't bother switching was a hit and run case I was accidentally identified in - I just needed the police to get the correct license plate so there was no point in confusing the situation further.

Val
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Aiden

LOL.  It's only been a few months since started coming out to myself and about a month since accepted it.  Yet already working on going under the new name.  Being someone who trained myself to respond automatically to my birthname, which been called by for almost 23 years I sometimes don;t realize when someone uses the wrong name though and sometimes slip and use wrong one myself.

But I have the staff where I live trying to help me out by calling me Aiden and my Therapist has been trying to, and have talked to a few of my friends who said they would try to.  So am getting a good start I think.  Even if people still keep calling me she, or girl.  Only been called a he a few times by people who not know me. 
Every day we pass people, do we see them or the mask they wear?
If you live under a mask long enough, does it eventually break or wear down?  Does it become part you?  Maybe alone, they are truly themselves?  Or maybe they have forgotten or buried themselves so long, they forget they are not a mask?
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c4lypso

I never really liked the idea of RLE, it makes it sound too much like a set point one must go through to get to another point. It's like saying you need to do this for exactly one year then you need to do this then you can get this. It's a cookie cutter solution for an issue that is anything but. Transition shouldn't be about chronology, it should be a very personal experience where we as individuals learn to live and love life, and understand what it truely means to happy in their own skin. That to me is what 'RLE' is about.
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Kate

Quote from: c4lypso on August 08, 2008, 09:18:37 AM
I never really liked the idea of RLE, it makes it sound too much like a set point one must go through to get to another point. It's like saying you need to do this for exactly one year then you need to do this then you can get this. It's a cookie cutter solution for an issue that is anything but. Transition shouldn't be about chronology, it should be a very personal experience where we as individuals learn to live and love life, and understand what it truely means to happy in their own skin. That to me is what 'RLE' is about.

For each of us individually, I agree... I don't like the idea of a "test" much myself.

But when a therapist signs off on that SRS letter, she's putting her professional reputation... and quite possibly legal vulnerabilities... at risk should the patient decide it "was all a big mistake" afterwards. If I was a therapist, I'd want to take every precaution to make sure my patient could deal with living as they intend to first.

It's sorta humiliating and insulting to have to do, to have to "prove ourselves," but within the current system I don't see many alternatives?

~Kate~
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c4lypso

Quote from: Kate on August 08, 2008, 09:56:52 AM
But when a therapist signs off on that SRS letter, she's putting her professional reputation... and quite possibly legal vulnerabilities... at risk should the patient decide it "was all a big mistake" afterwards. If I was a therapist, I'd want to take every precaution to make sure my patient could deal with living as they intend to first.

It's sorta humiliating and insulting to have to do, to have to "prove ourselves," but within the current system I don't see many alternatives?

~Kate~

See in my opinion I believe it should be about personal choice and not the letter of a shrink. DO I feel that therapy is important for people. Extremely so. Do I think every trans person needs it. Definatly not. I think if the person wants to have the surgery they should be allowed to have it without requiring the letters authorizing it. The surgeon can then sign away any and all responsibility about whether or not the person is happy they did it. They made the choice, they paid for it, they got it.

I got an orchi without a therapists letter, with the basis of informed consent. I was told of what the procedure was, and what it would do to me. I signed on the dotted line. In terms of therapy I have been required to go to therapy 3 times in order to get medication (I moved and I needed another place to get medication.) Two of those times I've had exactly two meetings with the therapist and been told in the same basic words that I didn't need therapy and signed off for the meds. The other time the therapist tried to tell me I was still confused about who I was and me having 'mood swings' as she called them were clear evidence that I was bipolar. (To explain I had told her I was having a gloomy day where I just felt kind of off and was a little tired. However the previous day I had been fine.) I could easily think she was just being overly cautious however her insistence at throwing medication at the problem didn't sit well with me and I quickly found a second opinion.

While I can't say that no one really needs therapy, I do believe the restrictions placed on us are completely unnecessary. Yes it could be considered cold to not think there was some way to avoid a tragedy when someone thinks they are trans, but it's really a deeper issue. The real tragedy is that even with all the road blocks set up now to prevent it, people still fall through the cracks.
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Mister

RLE is not required.  WPATH's Standards of Care simply guidelines that can be amended for each individual.

I did no RLE.  I went to therapy once.  I told my therapist within 60 seconds that I was there for three letters- hormones, surgery and a carry letter.  She sent all three in the mail 4-5 days after my appointment.  Turns out, I didn't even need the letter for surgery OR hormones.  My therapist made a quick call to my doc, told her I was good to go and that was it.

You can always negotiate with your therapist, y'know.  You're allowed some control over the speed of your transition.  If your therapist is going by the book and demanding a year of RLE out of you, negotiate them down to six months.  If that's no good, talk about it time frame again when you're a few months in.  There is no need to sit around and wait for a therapist to decide to take the time to write your letter, especially if you're transitioning as a secure, established adult.
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Kate

Quote from: c4lypso on August 08, 2008, 10:30:37 AM
See in my opinion I believe it should be about personal choice and not the letter of a shrink. DO I feel that therapy is important for people. Extremely so. Do I think every trans person needs it. Definatly not. I think if the person wants to have the surgery they should be allowed to have it without requiring the letters authorizing it. The surgeon can then sign away any and all responsibility about whether or not the person is happy they did it. They made the choice, they paid for it, they got it.

Oh I *totally* agree! Personal Responsibility rules ;)

I just don't know if we'll ever get there though. We can sign off for cosmetic surgeries, but SRS is sorta stuck in limbo, not exactly "medically necessary" (in a needed to keep the body alive sense) and not exactly cosmetic either :(

~Kate~
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Aiden

Yeh well have discused it with my Therapist what hoping for.  She's ok with me doing RLE for now of course, but as already figured and understand, she wants me to learn to handle my anger better before T.
Every day we pass people, do we see them or the mask they wear?
If you live under a mask long enough, does it eventually break or wear down?  Does it become part you?  Maybe alone, they are truly themselves?  Or maybe they have forgotten or buried themselves so long, they forget they are not a mask?
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sneakersjay

While I knew therapy was needed to get my letter for T, I actually wanted therapy because I really wanted to discuss this with someone who was well versed in trans issues and really for them to make sure I was what I thought I was (trans guy) before embarking on transition.  Yes, I was 99.999999999% sure but having a diagnosis of transsexuality wasn't at the top of my list of things to do in life. So if there was a chance I was wrong I wanted to hear about it.  Even though my gut knew it was right and I was elated to find out I could fix it and not just be a fake wanna be guy with boobs.

The good thing about having 2 gender therapists (one regular, one for group) is that I can tell my family that yes in fact I do have a second opinion!  That was their main concern, that my *diagnosis* was correct.  I'm like duh!  I knew it the first time I IM'd a transguy.  ::)

I'm rambling after working all night.  I'll shut up now.

Jay


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April221

Quote from: Northern Jane on July 15, 2008, 09:35:44 AM
The RLE/RLT is a legacy from the old days (1970's) when a person requesting SRS was expected to disappear into the woodwork after surgery and it was meant to "get you feet wet" and "prove" to yourself and others that a woman's life was what you wanted and that you were capable of living a woman's life.

I suspect, as things changed, it was retained as a way to determine if you would truly be happy in whatever situation you would end up in after surgery.

With 'surgery on demand' in many countries now, I don't think it is as relevant - you pays your money and takes your chance.

It never was a "hard and fast rule" but a guideline. In the 1960's and early 70's I had lived nearly 10 years part time en femme (weekends and whenever I could get away from home) and when the opportunity for SRS came up, I had the full support of all my medical people.

The time en femme was very important to me and I learned a great deal. Being a teenager at the time, I learned makeup, fashion sense, and most importantly I learned a lot of the social skills that make 24/7 transition/SRS a snap. With that background, I slipped straight into stealth with nary a ripple.

I'm a legacy from the 60's and 70's myself, but was unable to find help in 1970, so I went on with my life until, by accident I learned what TS was, and that help was available. Now, I'm really enjoying the RLE.

Having the Standards of Care make a lot of sense. SOMETHING should be written in terms of GUIDELINES. As it is, there is no real standard for HRT, with each doctor doing what he or she thinks best. Therapists are involved to help ensure that people make informed choices, not to judge. When a therapist writes a letter of referral, their professional reputation is on the line, along with legal responsibilities as well. I would really like to know who I'm writing a letter for,  if I were asked to give my formal support to someone. Kate points some of this out also. It's the system. Not unreasonable.

I view the RLE as a time for spiritual reflection and personal growth. It's also about setting goals.  I'm 58 years old. I do not have a full life in front of me. I'm finding that what may be my greatest challenge to be setting and carrying out my post op goals. Transition is a process that we go through. Post op, life goes on, and that is where I'm focusing my energy. My objective, is to experience as much as I can in the real world in the gender role that I've been deprived of since birth. I'd like to be a saleslady, for example. Part time, just for the experience. I'd like to volunteer for the courts working with women and  children.  I'd like to work with teens at the LGBT center in my community. I'd like to help someone other than myself.

This is what is going on during my RLE. I have volunteered, and am waiting for a response.  I am looking for a job, as well. There are also other things, and people, that require my attention. It isn't about diagnosis. It's about making an informed decision, and it's about understanding the future. I was socialized as a female as a child. Those skills which  had such a damaging effect on my adult life can now be put to use.  Northern Jane writes,  "The time en femme was very important to me and I learned a great deal. Being a teenager at the time, I learned makeup, fashion sense, and most importantly I learned a lot of the social skills that make 24/7 transition/SRS a snap. With that background, I slipped straight into stealth with nary a ripple."

These things are very important. When I apply for a job, in person, I need to look, and sound, like someone that can be hired and will be an asset as I represent someone's company. I am not the most "passable" woman on this site! But, my confidence and speech helps to overcome my lack of a feminine figure, masculine facial qualities, or any other shortcomings. So? Some women are masculine in appearance. People come in different shapes and sizes! I dress well, and I'm skilled in the use of makeup, which I use to great advantage. The way that I'll interact with other people, the way that I carry myself in public. The way that I flirt with men, these are all basic skills that a woman needs to have. These are also things that can be explored during the RLE.

If someone would prefer a shorter RLE, or no RLE, I have nothing to really say. If that's what someone believes is right for them, well, perhaps it is. I certainly cannot specify what anyone else should or shouldn't do. For me, I'm finding it to be a very rewarding time, although if there was no such thing as a RLE, I'd still be taking my time, and looking into things as I am now. My therapist has also said that she would not be holding me to a 1 year minimum. Letters will be written to allow surgery whenever the surgeon has an opening, if the time is agreeable to me. I'll have the SRS when the time is right. I have some other things to do first.
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le_joli_papillon

Quote from: Elwood on July 15, 2008, 10:46:26 AM
OMG OMG OMG. Pretty picture. :P

Anyway, it is pretty much mandatory, and you'll (probably) enjoy it, because you finally get to be yourself. Hormones and surgery is just an extension of who you already are. RLE is expressing that part of you full time.

=]
thanks

and idk..
lol
i have mixed feelings on the whole idea...
its like just prescribe me my hormones!!
lol
times-a-wastin!

Posted on: August 12, 2008, 12:57:57 PM
Quote from: Nichole on July 15, 2008, 11:19:52 AM
Quote from: le_joli_papillon on July 15, 2008, 03:54:22 AM
What exactly is this RLE?
Is it mandatory??

From what I understand its where to dr makes you live as a woman for some time b4 prescribing you hormones and such
am I wrong?

You're not already full-time, Happy Butterfly? Given your avatar, I would have thought you were!!

But, yes, Beyond, Jane, Kate and Elwood have explained it quite well.

O, yes, welcome to Susan's! Somehow I've managed to miss you! So sorry. I'll be looking forward to seeing more of you. :icon_hug:

All the very best,

Nichole



lol
not yettt
but thankss

its like...
difficult to explain kinda.

i live as a boy still
but i dress and look andro
alot of people call me by my girl name....

Posted on: August 12, 2008, 12:59:37 PM
Quote from: Kate on July 15, 2008, 11:57:38 AM
I should probably mention that your therapist defines what the "RLE" requirements are for her to write an SRS letter. Most will follow the guidelines mentioned, but in the end... it's up to them.

My point being: ask your therapist ;)

~Kate~


>:(
agg
i gotta get one..
lol
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iFindMeHere

Quote from: Hypatia on July 18, 2008, 05:24:26 AM
I wasn't too sure about how well I passed, but having everyone think I'm male was driving me crazy, I couldn't stand it any longer. Test, schmest. I just needed to be myself.


add "fe" to that and you've got me. Of course people still she me  :embarrassed: but i am getting used to that and accepting that i need T for others to be convinced, but the real reason i want it is for my personal comfort. I want to feel at home in the body i live in. either way i canNOT leave the house in female clothing without wanting to hurt myself.

So.... is a therapist going to look at that and go, "yup you're good, now lets make sure your mind's up to the coming changes"?
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Alexandra

My therapist told me that I seemed perfectly capable of understanding who and what I am and that I understand what's in the future regarding my transition.  I saw her 3 times (when I really didn't need to for hormones, but I wanted to play it safe anyway) and we mostly talked about things that weren't even about transgender!

She asked me when I came out, perhaps to get an idea of how long I've been "Alexandra" and I told her blankly that I had no idea what exact time I started, since through high school I slowly adapted into my true role as a girl.  Baby steps I like to think.  Which has done A LOT more to prepare me than had I just outrightly changed one day and readjust so quickly.  But everyone has their own way of knowing when they're ready for the next step, and it sometimes doesn't translate well into the medical field.
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