I must be feeling kinda introspective tonight...well, I have another therapy appt. tomorrow, and as usual I'm going through extreme ambivalence. I kind of look forward to my therapy because I see it as getting me closer to my goal, and I really like my therapist. But I also dread it because it's very hard for me to talk about personal stuff, ESPECIALLY gender stuff...I tend to keep it all inside and don't even talk to my partner much about it, and it's just so damned hard to trust my therapist. Not because I think he's going to do anything bad to me but out of habit, I guess. I keep thinking that sooner or later we're going to have to get down to brass tacks, and then I'll have to talk about stuff that I don't want to talk about because it's private, and I have always kept my private stuff...private.

I hate standing in the waiting room with my stomach churning. This is my fourth appt. tomorrow. I thought I would be calmer by now, but I still have the pre-appt. jitters, in spades, a full twelve hours before I have to go in. And it just gets worse from there.

I feel really stupid, embarrassed, chicken. If I don't watch out, I'll start worrying about THAT and won't be able to make any progress. Talk about adding a complex to an existing complex...

I don't know what the heck I'm doing here, posting like this. I'll probably regret it in the morning. I'm not looking for sympathy. I've gotten through the other appointments and I'll get through this one. So that's not it. I guess I just don't get why I'm still nervous. It's not like I've never been through therapy before...although I have to admit that I never talked to anyone about GID before. I guess maybe that's it. For most of my life, it has been my own secret, and there's a lot of baggage that goes along with it. And I still don't want to talk about it. It's just hard for me to talk about stuff like this. And now I see that I am repeating myself. Well, I'm not going to clean up this post. I'm too fried to be a good little editor tonight.

I don't know, am I the only one who feels this way? Ambivalent, I mean.

I'm extremely anxious about starting therapy as well, even though I am getting therapy for issues other than gender. However I may not be starting for a month or two, seeing as my psych can't get me a first appt for some undetermined time, he couldn't say, and I'm hoping he can refer me to someone good, as the first two therapists I saw, bad results.

I just don't talk about stuff. Ever. It's a habit and I'm nervous about the idea of telling someone everything. Even about gender, which is probably the easiest issue I have to talk about.

-sigh-

Well just know you're not alone, and I don't even have an appointment in the near future.

just letting you know you're not alone.
i really don't really like the idea of therapy, but i'm going to get toward my goals. 
i mean i like my therapist a lot but that still doesn't help me get rid of my original idea about how i just don't think i need therapy to be happy, outside of gender issues.  i feel like she's a relative that i don't have too much in common with and we're catching up over coffee each week.  great therapist but it feels so forced sometimes.  i have my next session with my mom in a few days.  it's going to be really awkward, and i don't know what i'm going to say and more importantly, how i'm going to say it.  with fear, with sadness, with hesitancy, with certainty?  i have no idea. 

i hope you warm up to it and feel comfortable getting the private details of your life out.  it feels really good, ultimately, especially when it gets you want you really want :]  think of it as the end justifying the means?

Actually I like therapy because I can spill my guts without fear of retribution or criticism or condemnation.  I can talk about stuff I could never talk about with family or friends.  I find it hugely helpful.

Jay

I go to therapy only because I have to in order to get referrals for transitioning.  There's nothing much I feel the need to discuss otherwise, so after around 15 minutes of updating my therapist on my latest progress (name change was last week!), we sort of awkwardly sit together, make small talk, and wait for our hour to end.  It's a good thing I only see him every 2 or 3 weeks!

But anyhow... what I've learned over the years is that while it's not a good idea to hide things from your therapist, you also have every right to keep some things private.  In my younger years, I used to think I was required to answer every single question they asked or else... or else, I'd be struck by lightning or something.  But geez..... they're not gods.  They're humans.  And so, depending on the circumstances, it's not necessarily unheathly to choose to not discuss something.  Occassionally, my therapist has asked me something that I'd rather keep private or would rather only discuss with family or friends, and I've simply said, "I'd prefer to not get into that."  He usually says, "OK, no problem."  And that's that.

Everyone is different.  Some people love to spill their guts, others prefer more privacy in life.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's not affecting your progress.

I really get excited about my appointments, because they are bringing me closer. But EVERY time before my appointment, I get so nervous that I'm panting loudly in the waiting room. Shaking, sweating, the works. Cold, clammy palms and an uneasy mind. I calm down after the therapist starts speaking. All of them so far have had a really calm air about them. I'm hoping Dr. Demara can also put me at ease when I see him on the 17th. Before then, I'll see my psychiatrist on the 25th of this month. We'll talk about my anxiety medication and how it's going. I'll also probably ask her about what sort of medical tests I should take for testosterone approval (liver, hormones, a physical, gyno visit, etc). I am ready to stop asking and to start demanding. I keep walking around the T issue, pussy-footed, hoping one of the doctors will give me a gentle push. But they won't. They're waiting for me to step up to the plate on my own and say it. "When will we start HRT?"

I don't like talking about gender issues, either. It's awkward to say, "I feel like I have/should have a penis, but I don't." Saying ->-bleeped-<- like that feels weird. But it's how I really feel. I also feel weird working with female counselors/therapists. Dr. Demara will be my first male therapist. I'm also afraid very personal questions will come up. I'm usually very good at being honest and sharing, but when it comes to my sexual fantasies and such, I don't tell people about that. But it is relevant...

Quote from: Elwood on August 18, 2008, 11:34:16 AM
I'm also afraid very personal questions will come up. I'm usually very good at being honest and sharing, but when it comes to my sexual fantasies and such, I don't tell people about that. But it is relevant...

Y'know, it's funny what I consider to be too personal to talk about yet and what I actually WILL talk about. I mean, I might tell him that my partner and I had sex and I really like doing a particular sex act--pretty explicit. But talking about stuff that seems much more innocuous is hard. Today, when I tried to talk about the tenuous hold I have over my emotions, I couldn't use the words "emotions" or "cry." Instead, I talked about my fears that I will lose control. He wasn't sure what I meant, and I couldn't put it into more specific terms, not yet. I was kind of angry because I wanted to be more specific, but I wasn't able to go there.

At some point, I will need to talk about the fantasies and preoccupations that I've had since earliest childhood, including sexual fantasies and stuff that I used to think made me a genuine nutjob, certifiable if not criminal. All of this ties in with my gender identity. All of it is secret. All of it will have to come out.

Today I did talk about some of my family history, which skirts my gender issues. So I made a little progress, I guess. And I had a sort of breakthrough today AFTER my appointment. It might signal an attitude change. I think it does. I hope it does...because I would like to be able to walk in there and feel fairly optimistic and confident, not always feeling like I'm on the effing edge every single minute.

I know that he's trying to help me, and for sure I need the help. But I like to be self-reliant and independent, so I think I'm still having trouble accepting that I need the help.

I've been doing Non-GID therapy since last october. I felt the same way you did, I really couldn't trust my therapist and sometimes she's given me reason not to.

I still don't feel 100% trust in her sometimes and I find myself lying to her now and then to keep her outside of the wall I've built. But now she's helping me find a GID therapist and I feel sorta bad. So I get to start a clean slate with a new therapist....and this time I'm going to try and let them in because that's the only way I can get the help I need.

I know how you feel Arch but just think, you don't want to be lying to your therapist like I did. If you want help, just remind yourself that they're there to help you

Quote from: trapthavok on August 19, 2008, 12:48:09 PM
I know how you feel Arch but just think, you don't want to be lying to your therapist like I did. If you want help, just remind yourself that they're there to help you

I have lied to other therapists. I have hidden things from other therapists. And I have never shared my GID stuff with another therapist. I could rationalize all of this lying and hiding because I honestly didn't see the relevance of my weird proclivities--I guess that shows how much in denial I was and how much I compartmentalized my issues--and I could emotionally justify my hiding and evasions because my identity was secret, secret, secret and I knew that I had to keep it heavily protected out of self-preservation. I was terrified that I would be institutionalized if anyone found out. Maybe that's overly dramatic, but that's the way I felt. I knew that even if I didn't wind up in the adolescent ward at the loony bid, I would wind up on the couch in some shrink's office. And I don't say "shrink" as a pejorative now--it's how I looked at things then.

Although there is a lot of stuff that I can't talk about yet, I definitely have no intention of lying to my therapist, so no worries there, Nathaniel. From the very start, he seemed to "get" me, and he never questioned my gender or sexuality. His acceptance has allowed me to feel pretty trusting even at this early stage. The main problem now is...me. I guess that's what separates me from transguys who already know what they want and who only need therapy to satisfy basic requirements in the transition process. They don't need counseling, or not much. I do. And I'm still coming to grips with that. Hence the mixed feelings.

With this therapist, I no longer have any excuses for hiding, and I'm finding that pretty ->-bleeped-<-ing frightening.

Quote from: Arch on August 19, 2008, 05:03:41 AM

Quote from: Elwood on August 18, 2008, 11:34:16 AM
I'm also afraid very personal questions will come up. I'm usually very good at being honest and sharing, but when it comes to my sexual fantasies and such, I don't tell people about that. But it is relevant...

Y'know, it's funny what I consider to be too personal to talk about yet and what I actually WILL talk about. I mean, I might tell him that my partner and I had sex and I really like doing a particular sex act--pretty explicit. But talking about stuff that seems much more innocuous is hard. Today, when I tried to talk about the tenuous hold I have over my emotions, I couldn't use the words "emotions" or "cry." Instead, I talked about my fears that I will lose control. He wasn't sure what I meant, and I couldn't put it into more specific terms, not yet. I was kind of angry because I wanted to be more specific, but I wasn't able to go there.

At some point, I will need to talk about the fantasies and preoccupations that I've had since earliest childhood, including sexual fantasies and stuff that I used to think made me a genuine nutjob, certifiable if not criminal. All of this ties in with my gender identity. All of it is secret. All of it will have to come out.

Today I did talk about some of my family history, which skirts my gender issues. So I made a little progress, I guess. And I had a sort of breakthrough today AFTER my appointment. It might signal an attitude change. I think it does. I hope it does...because I would like to be able to walk in there and feel fairly optimistic and confident, not always feeling like I'm on the effing edge every single minute.

I know that he's trying to help me, and for sure I need the help. But I like to be self-reliant and independent, so I think I'm still having trouble accepting that I need the help.

I'm just afraid they'll think it's a fetish and say I'm not GID.

Quote from: Elwood on August 19, 2008, 05:30:57 PM
I'm just afraid they'll think it's a fetish and say I'm not GID.

I don't see how they could think that, El. To me you're all boy, as much as any guy on this site. So I see pix of you and think how well you pass, and I read your posts and never think of you as female, so how could the pros? So I'm thinking, "No, that would never happen! That's just nerves talking!"

Stay strong, and keep your eyes on the ball. I'll try to do the same. No, I WILL do the same. None of this "try" nonsense.

And now I'm going to try to get some sleep. 

FWIW, nothing of a sexual nature came up in my therapy and isn't really relevant.  A transman fantasizing about being penetrated vaginally isn't a contraindication to GID, so why bring it up at all?

Quote from: Arch on August 20, 2008, 03:43:08 AM

Quote from: Elwood on August 19, 2008, 05:30:57 PMI'm just afraid they'll think it's a fetish and say I'm not GID.

I don't see how they could think that, El. To me you're all boy, as much as any guy on this site. So I see pix of you and think how well you pass, and I read your posts and never think of you as female, so how could the pros? So I'm thinking, "No, that would never happen! That's just nerves talking!"

Stay strong, and keep your eyes on the ball. I'll try to do the same. No, I WILL do the same. None of this "try" nonsense.

And now I'm going to try to get some sleep. 

You're right. 2 of my doctors thought I was "really" a boy before they knew that I was their patient named "Sara."

Yeah. It really is my nerves talking.

Just to add; my sexual fantasies have nothing to do with having a female body. It's just I don't want them to think it's androphilia that makes me feel male. I don't want to express that I would gain a great deal of pleasure from having a penis because I fear they'll think it's fetish driven. You know?

I would imagine in a managed care deal you have to really push, as their first priority is to not spend any money if they can help it.

It could only be seen as fetish driven if the only points you can identify as positive for having a penis are sexual.  I didn't bring up genitals at all.  I mentioned top surgery only when my therapist asked me if I rough timeline for transition.  If you'd like, I'll send you some of the things I brought up to my therapist.  They may either be spot on for you or not, but it's something other than, "Well, doctor, I'd really like to be hung."

Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 06:04:33 PMIt could only be seen as fetish driven if the only points you can identify as positive for having a penis are sexual.  I didn't bring up genitals at all.  I mentioned top surgery only when my therapist asked me if I rough timeline for transition.  If you'd like, I'll send you some of the things I brought up to my therapist.  They may either be spot on for you or not, but it's something other than, "Well, doctor, I'd really like to be hung."

Schwhat? That first part you said confused me... I see the ups and downs of having a penis (and not just literally). It isn't going to fix all my problems or anything. And the reasons for having a male body and male parts aren't just sexual. I want my body to feel right. I feel like it's missing. I think just that park will make me not "just a fetishist." I hope.

Yeah. I'll rough a timeline for transition to show my therapist. It won't involve phallo. It'll look something like:

-Therapy
-Testosterone
-Living Full Time for a While
-Top Surgery
-???
-PROFIT

I don't know what to do after top surgery.

I don't know if that offer was to me, but hey, I can't have too much information. Do send it if you have the time. Or just post it. Other people might find it useful. :]

Meh, I'm not interested in posting publicly.  i'll PM you with it shortly.

My point about your penis wanting being seen as a fetish was this...

Demara: "So, why do you want a penis?"

You:  "So I can be a top! So I can do it! So I can make my partner gag!"

I'm paraphrasing, of course.

If the penis question comes up, have an answer or two that doesn't sound like it's based in sex.  For instance, you'd feel more comfortable standing to pee.

Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 05:52:57 PM
FWIW, nothing of a sexual nature came up in my therapy and isn't really relevant.  A transman fantasizing about being penetrated vaginally isn't a contraindication to GID, so why bring it up at all?

I'd say that the need to talk about this stuff probably varies from person to person. My situation is complicated by the fact that I AM gay, and that made it so hard for me to understand myself when I was growing up. I mean, I could easily have been a straight female. After all, I liked guys...and maybe the tomboy thing really was just a phase. Maybe?

None of which could plausibly explain why I was so frantic (almost to the point of tears) to play the male lead in the class play in first grade or why I could never forgive my mother for throwing out my favorite shirt (a hand-me-down from my brother) when I was seven or eight, or why I just plain hated myself for years and years.

I was brought up in a much less progressive and accepting era than that of most guys who are posting here these days, I was brought up in a military family (traditional!!! conservative!!!), and I further gather (from observation of other families) that my mother was ultra-straitlaced, even by military family standards. Certainly she had mental issues of her own that were never addressed and never talked about. It's no wonder I was a screwed-up kid and young adult.

For me, sex and gender are intimately tied up with each other, and I still feel some guilt and shame about it all. I not only want to talk about it, I NEED to talk about it. To sort it all out and figure out who I am. And where I want to go. So that's what I'm gonna do.

Quote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 06:00:21 PM
Just to add; my sexual fantasies have nothing to do with having a female body. It's just I don't want them to think it's androphilia that makes me feel male. I don't want to express that I would gain a great deal of pleasure from having a penis because I fear they'll think it's fetish driven. You know?

Elwood, I see where you're coming from, although I'm not sure that my understanding of the term "androphilia" is the same as yours. Of course you want to be taken seriously as a transman. From my vast fount of trans wisdom (), I feel that if you really connect with your therapist, he will understand that you know who and what you are, and he will pose no permanent obstacle to your transition. Other people have told me that if one therapist doesn't do it for me, I should find a therapist who does. I think it very likely that Demara (sp?) will see you for what you are--trans--and help you to achieve your goals. But if he doesn't--IF--then you should feel within your rights to pursue counseling elsewhere. Sure, you'll face delays, and you might have to fork out more money, but the important thing is that you have OPTIONS. Always keep that in mind. It will help you.

I think you'll be okay. If your therapist is anywhere near as cool as mine, then you will be in very good hands indeed.

Quote from: Mister on August 20, 2008, 06:13:55 PM
Meh, I'm not interested in posting publicly.  i'll PM you with it shortly.

My point about your penis wanting being seen as a fetish was this...

Demara: "So, why do you want a penis?"

You:  "So I can be a top! So I can do it! So I can make my partner gag!"

I'm paraphrasing, of course.

If the penis question comes up, have an answer or two that doesn't sound like it's based in sex.  For instance, you'd feel more comfortable standing to pee.

LOL!

The answer would be for me...

Me: Because I feel like it should be there. I also have phantom sensations. For instance, it'll feel like my balls itch, but they're not there to scratch. How irritating is that? Wouldn't you hate it if your balls itched and you couldn't scratch them?
Demara: Yes. Yes I would.
Me: I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that. I also would like to be able to stand to pee without using a plastic thing that either looks nothing like a dick or a rubber dick that someone might spot. Seriously. Not to mention if I break the seal the piss will run down my leg. Ever spring a leak in your dick, Doc?
Demara: A few times, I believe.
Me: And you know what? I also would like to be able to express myself sexually as I want to. I don't think I can pleasure in the body I have now. Sure, I can be asexual, but if there's a way not to, I'd like to try that before assuming I'll never have sex. How could you live without sex?
Demara: I couldn't. Ahem, I mean... next question.

xD

Posted on: August 20, 2008, 04:44:53 PM

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Quote from: Arch on August 20, 2008, 06:36:20 PM

Quote from: Elwood on August 20, 2008, 06:00:21 PMJust to add; my sexual fantasies have nothing to do with having a female body. It's just I don't want them to think it's androphilia that makes me feel male. I don't want to express that I would gain a great deal of pleasure from having a penis because I fear they'll think it's fetish driven. You know?

Elwood, I see where you're coming from, although I'm not sure that my understanding of the term "androphilia" is the same as yours. Of course you want to be taken seriously as a transman. From my vast fount of trans wisdom (), I feel that if you really connect with your therapist, he will understand that you know who and what you are, and he will pose no permanent obstacle to your transition. Other people have told me that if one therapist doesn't do it for me, I should find a therapist who does. I think it very likely that Demara (sp?) will see you for what you are--trans--and help you to achieve your goals. But if he doesn't--IF--then you should feel within your rights to pursue counseling elsewhere. Sure, you'll face delays, and you might have to fork out more money, but the important thing is that you have OPTIONS. Always keep that in mind. It will help you.

I think you'll be okay. If your therapist is anywhere near as cool as mine, then you will be in very good hands indeed.

I meant it in the context of being turned on by being a man. But I just checked and I realized that's not the definition of the word. Sorry about that, lol.

Yeah. Demara has a lot of experience with transpeople, and I know I'm trans. We're going to connect and have an understanding, I'm sure.

Right.  That's what I mean.  Identity, not sexuality.